Electricity question

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919


and it was element you were arguing with about the alternating neutral. and he's right.

well damn I got mixed up at all the people telling me wrong stuff. The neutral doesn't alternate. You're both wrong. It's 0 ALWAYS!

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Because you won't be completing any circuit. You're sticking a probe into part of 2 completely different, isolated circuits, so of course you're not going to get a reading.

Also, if you don't understand this you really shouldn't be sticking things into wall outlets.

OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF ALL THE EEs TOSSING IN THEIR GRAVES.

There is no difference in potential between the points that he's probing.

 

[Eli]

Would you please stop calling people that are posting the simple explination stupid? I bet even an EE professor would give the "no circuit" explination if he thought the one asking had no prior electronic knowlege.

GET IT? FSCKING CHRIST.

/puts down coffee

I hate OT sometimes.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: cressida
just draw a block diagram and it will show your circuit is incomplete

Okay, wrong, read the whole thread.

I tried skimming the thread and I didn't see an answer anywhere so correct me if I'm wrong. A 1.5V battery will generate a potential DIFFERENCE between the positive end and the negative end. Remember voltage is a measurement of potential difference. If I asked you how tall you were and you say that you're 6ft tall, that's the distance between your head and your feet. If I'm 5ft tall, can you tell me if your head is 1ft higher than mine? No... because I could be standing on a platform, etc.... get it?

Okay, so neutral ends of batteries are not at 0 volts? That's all I wanna know.

More accurately said, they're not necessarily at the same voltage. There is no absolute '0V' just like there is not real absolute '0 ft up' because it's all relative.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919


and it was element you were arguing with about the alternating neutral. and he's right.

well damn I got mixed up at all the people telling me wrong stuff. The neutral doesn't alternate. You're both wrong. It's 0 ALWAYS!

must not be hard to mix you up, considering you've been in EE for 2 years and haven't learned shit.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: cressida
just draw a block diagram and it will show your circuit is incomplete

Okay, wrong, read the whole thread.

I tried skimming the thread and I didn't see an answer anywhere so correct me if I'm wrong. A 1.5V battery will generate a potential DIFFERENCE between the positive end and the negative end. Remember voltage is a measurement of potential difference. If I asked you how tall you were and you say that you're 6ft tall, that's the distance between your head and your feet. If I'm 5ft tall, can you tell me if your head is 1ft higher than mine? No... because I could be standing on a platform, etc.... get it?

Okay, so neutral ends of batteries are not at 0 volts? That's all I wanna know.

It's called the negtive side of the battery, not neutral. and 0 volts with respect to what? I hate to complicate this for you but it matters.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix

Weren't you the one who claimed to be an electrical engineer in another thread?

No.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: Eli
Instead of everyone calling everybody else stupid, how about we actually try and learn something?

I found this thread very frustrating. I'm very interested in learning about this stuff, but most of the people that actually know aren't bothering to explain it, they're too busy calling eachother morons.

How much math do you know? Most EM theory requires that you have some pretty advanced math knowledge, ie vector calculus and complex variable math so it's not really all that accessible to the armchair scientist. We used Engineering Electromagnetic Fields and Waves by Johnk but the book is pretty dry and mathematical so I don't know if I'd recommend it to a non-engineer or anyone with a pulse for that matter .

 

[thirdlegstump]

In Soviet Rossia, ground comes to joo!

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Eli
Would you please stop calling people that are posting the simple explination stupid? I bet even an EE professor would give the "no circuit" explination if he thought the one asking had no prior electronic knowlege.

GET IT? FSCKING CHRIST.

/puts down coffee

I hate OT sometimes.

Most of the people don't really know. They aren't about to give their answer because someone will find a flaw in it and tell them that they're stupid. So they just call others stupid.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: cressida
just draw a block diagram and it will show your circuit is incomplete

Okay, wrong, read the whole thread.

I tried skimming the thread and I didn't see an answer anywhere so correct me if I'm wrong. A 1.5V battery will generate a potential DIFFERENCE between the positive end and the negative end. Remember voltage is a measurement of potential difference. If I asked you how tall you were and you say that you're 6ft tall, that's the distance between your head and your feet. If I'm 5ft tall, can you tell me if your head is 1ft higher than mine? No... because I could be standing on a platform, etc.... get it?

Okay, so neutral ends of batteries are not at 0 volts? That's all I wanna know.

More accurately said, they're not necessarily at the same voltage. There is no absolute '0V' just like there is not real absolute '0 ft up' because it's all relative.

Great analogy TuxDave, I think this is the most intuitive (and correct) one posted so far.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: cressida
just draw a block diagram and it will show your circuit is incomplete

Okay, wrong, read the whole thread.

I tried skimming the thread and I didn't see an answer anywhere so correct me if I'm wrong. A 1.5V battery will generate a potential DIFFERENCE between the positive end and the negative end. Remember voltage is a measurement of potential difference. If I asked you how tall you were and you say that you're 6ft tall, that's the distance between your head and your feet. If I'm 5ft tall, can you tell me if your head is 1ft higher than mine? No... because I could be standing on a platform, etc.... get it?

Okay, so neutral ends of batteries are not at 0 volts? That's all I wanna know.

It's called the negtive side of the battery, not neutral. and 0 volts with respect to what? I hate to complicate this for you but it matters.

you can try to pound the difference between 'neutral' and 'ground' into his head all you want but it's not going to matter.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919


and it was element you were arguing with about the alternating neutral. and he's right.

well damn I got mixed up at all the people telling me wrong stuff. The neutral doesn't alternate. You're both wrong. It's 0 ALWAYS!

must not be hard to mix you up, considering you've been in EE for 2 years and haven't learned shit.

Instead of criticising me, prove me wrong.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919


and it was element you were arguing with about the alternating neutral. and he's right.

well damn I got mixed up at all the people telling me wrong stuff. The neutral doesn't alternate. You're both wrong. It's 0 ALWAYS!

must not be hard to mix you up, considering you've been in EE for 2 years and haven't learned shit.

Instead of criticising me, prove me wrong.

it was already done

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: cressida
just draw a block diagram and it will show your circuit is incomplete

Okay, wrong, read the whole thread.

I tried skimming the thread and I didn't see an answer anywhere so correct me if I'm wrong. A 1.5V battery will generate a potential DIFFERENCE between the positive end and the negative end. Remember voltage is a measurement of potential difference. If I asked you how tall you were and you say that you're 6ft tall, that's the distance between your head and your feet. If I'm 5ft tall, can you tell me if your head is 1ft higher than mine? No... because I could be standing on a platform, etc.... get it?

Okay, so neutral ends of batteries are not at 0 volts? That's all I wanna know.

More accurately said, they're not necessarily at the same voltage. There is no absolute '0V' just like there is not real absolute '0 ft up' because it's all relative.

Great analogy TuxDave, I think this is the most intuitive (and correct) one posted so far.

It is a good analogy. I posted a similar explanation (minus analogy) near the beginning of the thread, but I guess nobody saw it.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Eli
Instead of everyone calling everybody else stupid, how about we actually try and learn something?

I found this thread very frustrating. I'm very interested in learning about this stuff, but most of the people that actually know aren't bothering to explain it, they're too busy calling eachother morons.

How much math do you know? Most EM theory requires that you have some pretty advanced math knowledge, ie vector calculus and complex variable math so it's not really all that accessible to the armchair scientist. We used Engineering Electromagnetic Fields and Waves by Johnk but the book is pretty dry and mathematical so I don't know if I'd recommend it to a non-engineer or anyone with a pulse for that matter .

First, can you try and explain what electromagnetic theory has to do with potential, and the OP's question?

Is my assessment of the OP's question correct? "Why can't we measure the potential voltage [with a voltmeter] without completing the circuit?"?

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

it was already done

It was not done. Ground doesn't alternate. prove that it does.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

it was already done

It was not done. Ground doesn't alternate. prove that it does.

prove that it doesn't.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

it was already done

It was not done. Ground doesn't alternate. prove that it does.

prove that it doesn't.

Look up the node-voltage method of circuit analysis. That's proof.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

it was already done

It was not done. Ground doesn't alternate. prove that it does.

prove that it doesn't.

Look up the node-voltage method of circuit analysis. That's proof.

no thanks

 

[Heisenberg]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Eli
Instead of everyone calling everybody else stupid, how about we actually try and learn something?

I found this thread very frustrating. I'm very interested in learning about this stuff, but most of the people that actually know aren't bothering to explain it, they're too busy calling eachother morons.

How much math do you know? Most EM theory requires that you have some pretty advanced math knowledge, ie vector calculus and complex variable math so it's not really all that accessible to the armchair scientist. We used Engineering Electromagnetic Fields and Waves by Johnk but the book is pretty dry and mathematical so I don't know if I'd recommend it to a non-engineer or anyone with a pulse for that matter .

First, can you try and explain what electromagnetic theory has to do with potential, and the OP's question?

Is my assessment of the OP's question correct? "Why can't we measure the potential voltage [with a voltmeter] without completing the circuit?"?

There are basically two different issues here. One is why you can't measure a potential with a DMM without completing a circuit, which is completely a limitation of the equipment. The other is why there is no potential difference between the battery and ground which is a theoretical question, hence the need for the E&M.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

it was already done

It was not done. Ground doesn't alternate. prove that it does.

prove that it doesn't.

Since ground is 0V, isnt "alternating ground" a misnomer?

So it alternates between 0 and -0V... which is.. still 0V? lol

 

[91TTZ]

Lonely Phoenix, reading through this thread I've seen you make quite a few put-downs, yet you did not go out of the way to try to help the original poster out. It's easy to sit back and pick apart everyone who sticks their neck out while you never take any risks yourself.

At least I tried to help the guy out, and others have as well. Your intentions are ill.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: Eli
Instead of everyone calling everybody else stupid, how about we actually try and learn something?

I found this thread very frustrating. I'm very interested in learning about this stuff, but most of the people that actually know aren't bothering to explain it, they're too busy calling eachother morons.

How much math do you know? Most EM theory requires that you have some pretty advanced math knowledge, ie vector calculus and complex variable math so it's not really all that accessible to the armchair scientist. We used Engineering Electromagnetic Fields and Waves by Johnk but the book is pretty dry and mathematical so I don't know if I'd recommend it to a non-engineer or anyone with a pulse for that matter .

First, can you try and explain what electromagnetic theory has to do with potential, and the OP's question?

Is my assessment of the OP's question correct? "Why can't we measure the potential voltage without completing the circuit [with a voltmeter]?"?

Think of a a river that flows down a hill, which is a good analogy for current. The current flows from the higher potential (the top of the hill) toward the bottom (the lower potential). However, you don't need a river there to know what the difference in potential energy is at those two points.

Similarly, there's no reason you'd have to "complete a circuit" to define a voltage level. A voltage is the energy possessed per unit charge. When that charge finds a path to flow to where it will have a lower energy, it creates a current, but until then, it still possesses that energy.

Edit: Like Heisenburg pointed out, a multimeter works by setting itself to a very high value of resistance and measuring the current through itself when hooked up in parallel between two points... the net effect is nearly nothing on the circuit, but its not perfect. That's just how things are done in practice.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

it was already done

It was not done. Ground doesn't alternate. prove that it does.

prove that it doesn't.

Look up the node-voltage method of circuit analysis. That's proof.

no thanks

Okay so stop pulling stuff out your ass and believe me when I say it doesn't alternate.