EVE!

[TheVrolok]

I looked at about half the fits, but they don't seem too bad. Sure there are a few that are questionable, especially the local repped typhoon when it was a fleet that was going to rely on the triaged carrier for reps, but they fits looked at least reasonable. I probably would have used less resist mods and more damage mods in the lows, but I didn't see any outward fail fits. (again I only looked at about half the fits, and since you obviously face raped them they must have been doing something very wrong).

To be honest, the face rape was mostly due to numbers, I wasn't even really involved. I just saw local, grabbed a pilgrim, and head to "Lukka" it up.

Fail fits?
The archon for starters, did anyone expect that to make it through a triage cycle against anything other than a handful of BCs?
The tachyon Abaddon?
The guardian pilot who clearly has Logi 3 at the most?
There was at least a pretty badly tanked Tempy/Phoon or 2-3?
Wasting a bunch of slots on RR with a triage carrier on field?

I may have overreacted with 80%, but, it was pretty clear they must have just leeroyed whatever they had lying around without much of a plan.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Being a bit pedantic, aren't we? Of course you may be able to escape if you've got enough speed to get out of point range, or if they don't carry a point, etc. What I was saying, which should be fairly clear, is that all else being equal, ECM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all other forms of EWAR. Look at it this way, 2 identically fit ships with identically skilled pilots, with the exception of one ship fitting a rack of EC-300's/600's and the other not. Those drones (even the lights) can make an even fight, nearly entirely lopsided by their own virtue. That's the power of ECM that other EWAR methods don't have.

Sensor damps works the same way...you can make sure the opponent dosn't get one single shot off.

Like the saying goes: HTFU.

 

[Martimus]

Sensor damps works the same way...you can make sure the opponent dosn't get one single shot off.

True. In fact when you have the range, they are stronger than ECM since they have a 100% chance of working. I used them on my Arazu to keep a Falcon from saving his friend in a WH, and he had to get much closer to try to get in some jams, and we grabbed him too because of it. (http://nawti.evekb.co.uk/?a=kill_related&kll_id=1703026)

Still, I agree that ECM is the most powerful of the EWAR, since it makes your ship completely useless. The other forms of EWAR are only useful in specific situations, but they also have a much higher probability of success.

 

[TheVrolok]

Still, I agree that ECM is the most powerful of the EWAR, since it makes your ship completely useless. The other forms of EWAR are only useful in specific situations, but they also have a much higher probability of success.

This has been my point all along, which Lonbjerg refuses to acknowledge. I imagine it's because he's a Caldari fanboy (at least I believe he's only ever posted about flying blue ships).

 

[ichy]

ECM beats all other forms of EWAR, however Caldari ships are generally considered somewhat weak in PvP (with some exceptions.) It seems fair to give them a bonus in one area.

 

[Fallen Kell]

The only reason I would call them "weak" is the fact that missiles require the ship to still be there and locked on for them to hit the target. So if you pop a caldari ship that had just launched a volley that would blow you up, you don't have to worry about it...

The only other reason to call them weak might be their very low dps on the drake, which is really just a flying shield, and not dangerous to anything that isn't a straight buffer tank.

 

[Martimus]

The only reason I would call them "weak" is the fact that missiles require the ship to still be there and locked on for them to hit the target. So if you pop a caldari ship that had just launched a volley that would blow you up, you don't have to worry about it...

Not true. You do not need to be targeted for the missiles to hit you. If you want to test this have a drake shoot at you while you are outside a POS shield, then burn inside the shields so that he loses his lock. You will still get hit by all volleys that he launched before he lost his lock.

I only know this because of a POS defense where people were still getting hit by missiles while they were in the POS shields, but couldn't be repped since they were in the POS shields and could not be targeted.

 

[TheVrolok]

ECM beats all other forms of EWAR, however Caldari ships are generally considered somewhat weak in PvP (with some exceptions.) It seems fair to give them a bonus in one area.

Yep, I would agree with that. Like I said earlier, I don't think ECM should be removed, or even heavily nerfed; was just stating it was pretty lopsided.

The only other reason to call them weak might be their very low dps on the drake, which is really just a flying shield, and not dangerous to anything that isn't a straight buffer tank.

The drake is one of the best PvP ships in the game, hands down, and I don't even like shield gangs. And obviously Falcons/Scorps/Rooks have their ECM use.. but yeah, Caldari shine more in PvE than they do in PvP.

 

[JSt0rm]

my drake rapes.

 

[Martimus]

my drake rapes.

I think we should 1v1. Me in my standard fit Myrmidon, and you in your standard fit Drake. I would like to see who would win.

 

[JSt0rm]

I think we should 1v1. Me in my standard fit Myrmidon, and you in your standard fit Drake. I would like to see who would win.

We did. Remember I floated out of scram range () But we could do it at 5km and see whats up.

 

[ichy]

The only other reason to call them weak might be their very low dps on the drake, which is really just a flying shield, and not dangerous to anything that isn't a straight buffer tank.

Oh I'm a big fan of the Drake, it's one of those exceptions that I mentioned.

I had great success running a 6/10 plex with another alliance member this weekend. I probed it out & brought a Drake to soak up the DPS while the other guy came with a sniper Apocalypse. We tore through that plex since he was able to optimize his ship for pumping out as much DPS as possible.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Oh I'm a big fan of the Drake, it's one of those exceptions that I mentioned.

I had great success running a 6/10 plex with another alliance member this weekend. I probed it out & brought a Drake to soak up the DPS while the other guy came with a sniper Apocalypse. We tore through that plex since he was able to optimize his ship for pumping out as much DPS as possible.

Don't get me wrong, I use a drake probably every other day, but for PvE (just like you mentioned).

When I am running solo C3 wormhole sites, I prefer to the drake. Since, if I lose it, I am out only 40-50mill (with my current fit). Which is really just 1 good C3 site worth of loot. Much better than risking the 700mill tengu which is 8 or 9 sites worth of loot (as well as possibly 3-4 days of skill points from T3 penalty to a subsystem skill).

 

[ichy]

You run C3 sites solo in a Drake? I've done C2 radar sites, but it seems like the Drake can't put out enough DPS to run a C3 site.

 

[Fallen Kell]

You run C3 sites solo in a Drake? I've done C2 radar sites, but it seems like the Drake can't put out enough DPS to run a C3 site.

Works fine. It will take 30-40 minutes depending on how many BS's there are in the site. The fit you need to use the drake can not have any BCS, so it is just the 7 launchers. You absolutely need T2 launchers for it to work, and need to switch between precision and furry missiles (or if you want to spend the cash, caldari navy scourge and furry), depending on if you are shooting at a BS (furry) or crusiers/frigates (precision or faction).


[Drake, Solo C3 Setup]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior I x5


It really doesn't matter what drones you use, since they are pretty much dead in 1 hit (as the drake gets no bonuses to drone HP). The warriors at least have a chance to get recalled with their speed, so I prefer them. I don't use II's because they are mostly just bait at times if your tank starts to fail for some reason (it shouldn't if you have the appropriate skills, but every once in a while you will warp to a site that someone else attempted and popped the trigger and got overwhelmed).

 

[ichy]

Thanks for the information.

Once I get my alt trained to be able to fly a Drake competently I might run C3 sites as a two man group. My biggest concern is the danger of the wormhole closing behind us, since if my alt takes a Drake he'll have to leave his probing ship behind.

Edit: Wouldn't it make more sense to use a passive EM hardener instead of one of the invul fields? If sleepers always shoot the kind of damage that you're least resistant to then beefing up your EM resistance would seem to make sense.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Sleepers shoot omni-damage. So what it means is that it is doing 20 em, 20 thermal, 20 kinetic, and 20 explosive all at the same time. The problem with an EM hardner and 1 invuln is that your other stats will be so much lower that you actually take more damage overall due to the cumulative effects of the non-em damage. You will need battlecruisers to at least 3, 4 being recommended (5 is ideal, but overkill for this purpose), as you gain 5% shield resistances on the drake with each increase in BC.

Also, you may need to swap one of the shield power relays for another PDU if your ship isn't 53% cap stable. You will need your second ship setup for salvaging, speed, and cloak. Personally I use a Thrasher with 6 salvagers, a cloak, and probe launcher in the highs, 2 T2 warp core stabs in the lows, and a microwarp and cap rechargers in the mids, along with a salvage rig and alignment/manuverability rigs (forget which ones). You disable/enable the warp core stabs and salvagers depending on what you are doing (i.e. carrying your loot back out of the WH, put the stabs on to hopefully warp away, and make sure you know how to do the insta-warp trick).

Also, we have the benefit of living in the WH (we have multiple POSs setup). So there are some things that I can do as a result of that which you will not be able to do just popping into a WH and trying to get out before it closes on you because you will not have anywhere safe to go without a cloak in a WH.

 

[Stuxnet]

Sorry to bring my newbness into this thread, but I've always wanted to get involved in EVE but the sheer disadvantage I'd be at as a new user has dissuaded me. Is there any point to joining so late in the game?

 

[Martimus]

Sorry to bring my newbness into this thread, but I've always wanted to get involved in EVE but the sheer disadvantage I'd be at as a new user has dissuaded me. Is there any point to joining so late in the game?

You can play the game fine from the moment you start. You won't be at much of a disadvantage really even as long as you specialize. You can be a great frigate pilot within two weeks or so, and a good cruiser pilot within two months, and about the same for a BC. A Battleship will take longer before you are acceptable, but even that doesn't take that long. What will put you back is that you have to specialize to be good quickly, and older players will be proficient at more ships.

 

[JSt0rm]

Sorry to bring my newbness into this thread, but I've always wanted to get involved in EVE but the sheer disadvantage I'd be at as a new user has dissuaded me. Is there any point to joining so late in the game?

The great thing is that you can kill early on with low skills if you are focused. The main problem isnt your lack of sp (skill points) but the massive learning curve you must climb over.

Pm me if you want a invite. It will give you a extra week on the trial.

 

[Stuxnet]

Thanks guys - I'm actually downloading now (taking forever!). When you say "specialize," do you basically just mean not trying to be a "jack of all trades"?

 

[KaOTiK]

Thanks guys - I'm actually downloading now (taking forever!). When you say "specialize," do you basically just mean not trying to be a "jack of all trades"?

Yeah, fly one races ship for awhile and specialize into a class of ship.

For example, I fly Amarr exclusively. Due to this I only have had to train in their guns (lasers) and armor tanking. The advantage with this is I can fly xxx class ship better then someone who has crossed trained other races ships (this doesn't include those old players who had tons of SP and have all ships and such near max lol), I lose out of versatility by only being able to fly one races ships but I can take more advantage of it as well in general.

Also specializing into one type of ship is another way. Say you want to be fly battlecruisers, you can get all the skills to fly one of them well and hold your own against higher SP players, but that is the only ship class you can fly well till you can train into more skills.

IMO, from my experience it is easier and better to stick to a single race for awhile so you can focus your skills more then branch out from there once you have a solid foundation.

But hey, you are new to the game, so just try stuff to find what you enjoy doing and go from there. Being new doesn't mean you can not compete. We have guys in my corp who has 100m+ SP but it is all in industry/manufacturing. They can kill shit to save their life even though they been playing the game for like 5 years.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I will agree about focusing on a races ships... That said, if you focus on minmatar ships you will fairly easily be able to cross train to the other races, but it will take a lot longer to focus on the minmatar ships than some of the other races. The reason for this is that some minmatar ships are shield tanked, some are armor tanked. Most use projectile guns, but many do so in combination with missile launchers. What this means is that to fly them well, you need to max out both your armor and shield tanking skills, get decent missile skills and max out your projectile gun skills (if you want to be able to fly any minmatar ship). The added bonus to this is that you get accustomed to how to effectively use shield tanks and armor tanks, as well as see when/where/how missiles are useful.

I have been finding it extremely easy to get into both amarr and caldari ships from focusing for minmatar ones first. It has only taken me 3 weeks to get into amarr cruisers and battlecruisers, and only 12 days to get into caldari cruisers and battlecruisers. Gallente will take a little longer since you need some a few drone skills which will take a good month of training (well, you need them as well if you are going to fly amarr recon ships, which is the next thing I am tackling once I finish getting him into a caldari T3 cruiser which is only another 4 weeks of training).

 

[Arsinek]

One thing I didnt like about this game was it seemed like PVP revolved around camping gates. So you just spent the whole time jumping from gate to gate, it seemed very constricting. And going out to PVP meant sitting at a gate or sitting at a gate while a scout jumped gates looking for something for your group to shoot at.

 

[Fallen Kell]

One thing I didnt like about this game was it seemed like PVP revolved around camping gates. So you just spent the whole time jumping from gate to gate, it seemed very constricting. And going out to PVP meant sitting at a gate or sitting at a gate while a scout jumped gates looking for something for your group to shoot at.

Well that is "part" of it, but the majority of the PvP I have done was actually trying to catch people "ratting" at belts, or people mining, or missioning. None of which involves the gates other than to keep them from escaping. The majority of the kills are at the belts or mission site.