Extraction of Lithium from Seawater

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,435
14,950
136
Contemplating the complexity of an ICE, its almost weird that they exist in the first place. (creationism for ice's incoming...)
 
Reactions: Chaspowr3
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,849
146
It could just be some latent bias, but something about this seems not likely to work out (the part about the hydrogen and chlorine alone being valuable enough to offset the cost - which not sure if that already factors in some value of lithium or not so that might be why I'm a bit skeptical, if it does then interesting, if not then it sounds too good to be true). It could be a game changer for the world if true though. If it could scale, it basically makes desalinization and possibly cleanup of the ocean a money making endeavor that could fuel a less polluting shift to electric transportation.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,674
12,105
136
It could just be some latent bias, but something about this seems not likely to work out (the part about the hydrogen and chlorine alone being valuable enough to offset the cost - which not sure if that already factors in some value of lithium or not so that might be why I'm a bit skeptical, if it does then interesting, if not then it sounds too good to be true). It could be a game changer for the world if true though. If it could scale, it basically makes desalinization and possibly cleanup of the ocean a money making endeavor that could fuel a less polluting shift to electric transportation.
It certainly seems pie-in-the-sky, but certainly worth keeping an eye on.

However, we're not going to buy our way out of climate change with 1:1 replacement of ICE vehicles with electrics. Electrics are a part of the solution, but we're going to have to get people to shift their modes of transit out of personal automobiles and into things like buses, rail, bikes, and walking. It won't happen overnight, but it's where the most substantial gains on reducing pollution & traffic congestion can happen.
 
Reactions: Chaspowr3 and Zorba

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,799
5,566
136
Electrics are a part of the solution, but we're going to have to get people to shift their modes of transit out of personal automobiles and into things like buses, rail, bikes, and walking.

I like my car and you cannot have it!

I will also motivate my congress critter to put money into roads to subsidize by car habit with tax payer money.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,525
11,911
136
It could just be some latent bias, but something about this seems not likely to work out (the part about the hydrogen and chlorine alone being valuable enough to offset the cost - which not sure if that already factors in some value of lithium or not so that might be why I'm a bit skeptical, if it does then interesting, if not then it sounds too good to be true). It could be a game changer for the world if true though. If it could scale, it basically makes desalinization and possibly cleanup of the ocean a money making endeavor that could fuel a less polluting shift to electric transportation.
I was thinking that might as well combine this with desalinization, and maybe some D2 capture. Lithium is also a chemical involved in more than just batteries. Maybe part of the cold fusion revolution.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,849
146
It certainly seems pie-in-the-sky, but certainly worth keeping an eye on.

However, we're not going to buy our way out of climate change with 1:1 replacement of ICE vehicles with electrics. Electrics are a part of the solution, but we're going to have to get people to shift their modes of transit out of personal automobiles and into things like buses, rail, bikes, and walking. It won't happen overnight, but it's where the most substantial gains on reducing pollution & traffic congestion can happen.

Consumption does need to fall (particularly in the US) but the move to electric has other benefits. Lots of cities are banning ICE not just because of the pollution but because they're aiming to make their downtowns "walkable" and having multi-ton vehicles speeding around at 30+mph inhibits that a lot so I can see many of them banning cars in general in high density population areas.

Further, some technology I think will make trains more viable. I'm honestly surprised Musk hasn't been trying to partner or develop electric trains with Boring Company, with him focused on offering high speed electric commercial rail service that would be less limited by weather.
 
Reactions: Chaspowr3
Dec 10, 2005
27,674
12,105
136
Further, some technology I think will make trains more viable. I'm honestly surprised Musk hasn't been trying to partner or develop electric trains with Boring Company, with him focused on offering high speed electric commercial rail service that would be less limited by weather.
This is tech bro fantasy garbage. We already have viable technologies for mass transit, both with existing light and heavy rail, and with buses. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.
 
Reactions: Zorba and repoman0
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,849
146
I was thinking that might as well combine this with desalinization, and maybe some D2 capture. Lithium is also a chemical involved in more than just batteries. Maybe part of the cold fusion revolution.

Yeah, that's why I think this is too good to be true. Low amount of electricity to process basically a multi-stage filtration of Lithium, which also seems to produce pure other things that would be beneficial at low cost? It seems fairly simple too so it just doesn't make sense, but perhaps I'm missing something (scarcity of the materials needed for the filter, especially at scale). And that's before they even look to bolster it by doing it with solar, wind, or tidal power (I know there was some work being done to use tidal generators to power desalinization, and I think offshore would could also make sense).
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,849
146
This is tech bro fantasy garbage. We already have viable technologies for mass transit, both with existing light and heavy rail, and with buses. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

K, bro. Its like you don't think weather is a thing (are you from Texas or something?). And high speed rail has a shitload higher chance of becoming viable by going underground (plus it opens up the potential for vacuum which will help speed and efficiency). It doesn't even need to be very high speed and it'd be an improvement, and electric trains will be more efficient already. That would displace a LOT of our current emissions (trucking) whilst recognizing that industry dying already. Plus it'd cut down on shipping, and cutting into air freight (another high energy use).

Further, I think they could use it as a defense initiative (meaning they can get the cost passed by making it a defense budget item) by making the same argument as they did for the interstate highway system (which incidentally, build it under the interstates), which also needs work in plenty of areas. Plus it could open up improvement to the national electric grid and a hardened communication/internet backbone that would be protected against the dreaded EMP or solar flares, etc. Also potentially building a national water grid (which we could use to funnel seawater inland and refill acquifers, create recreation areas that we use the wind, solar in the region to process into clean water, which can then be sent into another pipe to keep transportation centers and agriculture from getting starved by droughts.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,674
12,105
136
K, bro. Its like you don't think weather is a thing (are you from Texas or something?). And high speed rail has a shitload higher chance of becoming viable by going underground (plus it opens up the potential for vacuum which will help speed and efficiency). It doesn't even need to be very high speed and it'd be an improvement, and electric trains will be more efficient already. That would displace a LOT of our current emissions (trucking) whilst recognizing that industry dying already. Plus it'd cut down on shipping, and cutting into air freight (another high energy use).

Further, I think they could use it as a defense initiative (meaning they can get the cost passed by making it a defense budget item) by making the same argument as they did for the interstate highway system (which incidentally, build it under the interstates), which also needs work in plenty of areas. Plus it could open up improvement to the national electric grid and a hardened communication/internet backbone that would be protected against the dreaded EMP or solar flares, etc. Also potentially building a national water grid (which we could use to funnel seawater inland and refill acquifers, create recreation areas that we use the wind, solar in the region to process into clean water, which can then be sent into another pipe to keep transportation centers and agriculture from getting starved by droughts.
I've lived in the northeast and midwest for all of my life and can attest that trains and buses work fine in the cold weather and the snow, for the most part. And we don't even need HSR - just improving the intercity rail connections we have could allow for higher speeds with existing rolling stock and would work wonders for cutting travel times with passenger rail. We also can add electrification and could adopt some of the shipping models used in Europe, where freight is shipped on shorter, electrified trains. No reason those things can't be adapted for use here, if applicable.

Furthermore, Musk seems to hate public transit, so I don't see him doing anything to further the goal of expanding public transit, beyond his stupid dreams of inventing a shitty version of subways and buses that carry less people at a time.
 
Reactions: repoman0

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,525
11,911
136
I've lived in the northeast and midwest for all of my life and can attest that trains and buses work fine in the cold weather and the snow, for the most part. And we don't even need HSR - just improving the intercity rail connections we have could allow for higher speeds with existing rolling stock and would work wonders for cutting travel times with passenger rail. We also can add electrification and could adopt some of the shipping models used in Europe, where freight is shipped on shorter, electrified trains. No reason those things can't be adapted for use here, if applicable.

Furthermore, Musk seems to hate public transit, so I don't see him doing anything to further the goal of expanding public transit, beyond his stupid dreams of inventing a shitty version of subways and buses that carry less people at a time.
Musk has the same conflict of interest in public transportation, that GM has.
 

Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,281
3,083
136
This is tech bro fantasy garbage. We already have viable technologies for mass transit, both with existing light and heavy rail, and with buses. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here.

Problem is (around here at least) is that development has just sprawled outward like crazy. Things are not centralized enough for trains to actually serve that many people, and any bus ride takes ages (not to mention the bus stops here in sunny, thunderstormy FL are often not even covered or even have a bench...). Should things be this spread out? No! But they are and it's not easy to undo that mistake. Basically most things here were built in the age of the freeway.

Other things that can help:
* working from home *raises hand*--I doubt I've driven more than 1000 miles in the past year other than one long vacation trip.
* reducing shipping - afaik, shipping accounts for a big chunk of emissions. All those handy Amazon packages come from somewhere.

That said, perfect is the enemy of the good. Whatever we do it has to be economical though, because if covid has taught me anything (that I already knew but whatever) it's that people are selfish shitheads that only think of them and theirs. There will be people rolling coal into the rising ocean waters just because it triggers the libs.
 
Dec 10, 2005
27,674
12,105
136
Problem is (around here at least) is that development has just sprawled outward like crazy. Things are not centralized enough for trains to actually serve that many people, and any bus ride takes ages (not to mention the bus stops here in sunny, thunderstormy FL are often not even covered or even have a bench...). Should things be this spread out? No! But they are and it's not easy to undo that mistake. Basically most things here were built in the age of the freeway.

Other things that can help:
* working from home *raises hand*--I doubt I've driven more than 1000 miles in the past year other than one long vacation trip.
* reducing shipping - afaik, shipping accounts for a big chunk of emissions. All those handy Amazon packages come from somewhere.

That said, perfect is the enemy of the good. Whatever we do it has to be economical though, because if covid has taught me anything (that I already knew but whatever) it's that people are selfish shitheads that only think of them and theirs. There will be people rolling coal into the rising ocean waters just because it triggers the libs.
The development didn't happen overnight, and the fixes will also not happen overnight. We can take steps to reverse sprawl trends with more infill development and policies that improve mass transit (such as bus lanes, appropriate service frequencies, and reducing the convenience of using a car by eliminating free parking).

I don't have faith that even many of these simple "fixes" can be implemented though when it seems like every piece of even modest density is fought parcel by parcel, and people scream over the elimination of even single public street parking spaces.
 
Reactions: uclaLabrat
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