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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,025
2,876
136
So fake that Maddow is choking Hannity out

https://shareblue.com/rachel-maddow-has-beat-sean-hannity-in-ratings-every-night-this-year/

What a beautiful woman. You go girl.

Seeing this gave me attention to how important appeals to emotion are in the media and how far conservative media has turned it into a partisan game. Maddow is no Hannity, but it's using the same playbook. It's not like liberals don't appeal to emotion. There's plenty, with MoveOn and HuffPo coming to mind. However, it's not so overtly partisan as conservative media who generalize those appeals to bash liberals as a whole and evoke a sense of trustworthiness in conservative media.

Its no secret that reason itself is a poor tool for emotionally charged topics. Due to the current political climate, anything at all partisan is implicitly emotionally charged even if the issue itself really isn't. In those situations, people are going to gravitate to an explanation which validates their emotional state and has apparent credibility. When that credibility goes under attack, it is very hard to un-stick what has been believed. I don't think the problem is so much that people who have believed these things are stupid, unable to see reason, etc. I think the problem is, in shedding this belief, not only do they give up the thing that has validated their emotional experience which led to the belief in the first place, they must add to those feelings shame in being wrong.

Perhaps we're going about this wrongly. Perhaps we ought to offer an alternative explanation that validates the emotional reason they have wanted to believe what came before.
 
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UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
After the “awards,” Trump ended the night with a tub of Häagen-Dazs and viewing his favorite films Heathers, Mean Girls and Chicks Who Look Like Ivanka And Take It Up The Butt 7.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,133
29,314
136
After the “awards,” Trump ended the night with a tub of Häagen-Dazs and viewing his favorite films Heathers, Mean Girls and Chicks Who Look Like Ivanka And Take It Up The Butt 7.

We should keep sending tubs of Haggen-Dazs to Trump, maybe the latest flavor, KFC Surprise. He can double down on the artery clogging goodness.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
136
I don't blame him for pushing back on a media that is inflating everything against him regardless of the actual facts.
But you and your teammates went ape shit when Obama pushed back on fox a little bit.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,541
9,531
136
Meh..there have been reports deemed false after the fact long before Trump became president..In reality,Trump is the king of "fake news" falsehoods.

Remember when Trump said he may have recorded tapes of James Comey. When the justice department demanded he hand them over, he admitted they didn't exist. Or when he tweeted that 122 "vicious prisoners" were released by the Obama administration from Gitmo had returned to the battlefild, when in fact 113 of those detainees were released by GW Bush.

The only "real news" here is that Trump LOVES fake news, as long as he thinks it's gonna make him look good...
 
Reactions: Thebobo

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
25,319
14,823
136
Seeing this gave me attention to how important appeals to emotion are in the media and how far conservative media has turned it into a partisan game. Maddow is no Hannity, but it's using the same playbook. It's not like liberals don't appeal to emotion. There's plenty, with MoveOn and HuffPo coming to mind. However, it's not so overtly partisan as conservative media who generalize those appeals to bash liberals as a whole and evoke a sense of trustworthiness in conservative media.

Its no secret that reason itself is a poor tool for emotionally charged topics. Due to the current political climate, anything at all partisan is implicitly emotionally charged even if the issue itself really isn't. In those situations, people are going to gravitate to an explanation which validates their emotional state and has apparent credibility. When that credibility goes under attack, it is very hard to un-stick what has been believed. I don't think the problem is so much that people who have believed these things are stupid, unable to see reason, etc. I think the problem is, in shedding this belief, not only do they give up the thing that has validated their emotional experience which led to the belief in the first place, they must add to those feelings shame in being wrong.

Perhaps we're going about this wrongly. Perhaps we ought to offer an alternative explanation that validates the emotional reason they have wanted to believe what came before.

Oh I agree so very much. You get the same emotional speak with Bill Maher and at the end of the day it is just the other side of the coin.
What you get with Rachel though, if you strip away all the emo speak, is a very long set of verifiable facts that she uses to build up a point. Facts. Facts is a precious commodity these days. That and she is gay and you just know thats a thorn in the eyes of all the bigoted Pences outthere as well. Bonus. Winning.
I have come to realize that some people need the emo speak. Nothing wrong with it, just different from myself. shrugs.

"Perhaps we're going about this wrongly. Perhaps we ought to offer an alternative explanation that validates the emotional reason they have wanted to believe what came before."
- I think you are 100pct correct on that one. Trump was willing to lie into their faces and promise them flying unicorns and endless coal adventures, Clinton was not. I am guessing right now they feel betrayed as hell.
 
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obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
His list of "accomplishments" is, wow. I need him to explain why half of them are his doing, and for the other half why they are a good thing that benefit the country and people

"Auctioning off millions of new acres for energy exploration, and opening up ANWR."

uhm, hurray? Thanks?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
What, an economist made an economic prediction which turned out to be incorrect? Wow, I've never seen that happen before. I must have imagined that libertarians have been predicting hyper-inflation every year for the past 5 decades. But that isn't fake news, because it isn't news. Someone's opinion about where the economy is headed is just that, an opinion.

It's interesting how Trump's definition of "fake news" seems to broaden more and more with time. If he accomplishes nothing else, it will be in thoroughly discrediting the phrase "fake news" by turning it into something utterly meaningless.
That's what struck me as I read that list: a year of non-stop whining about "fake news" and that's the best Donnie could come up with? Good grief, the Snowflake in Chief and his fawning cult of fools and bigots need to get over themselves. Tweets, op-eds, and a few errors that were quickly corrected.

Compare that to Trump and the Trump media who deliberately push material misinformation on a daily basis, rarely offer corrections, and continue to peddle the same lies long after they've been debunked. Notice how many legitimate media employees have been fired for bad stories compared to the Trump media. Not only did Fox not fire anyone for the Seth Rich lies, Hannity continued to push them even after Fox retracted the story. Who was fired for the Pizzagate garbage? For birtherism? For claiming millions of illegal immigrants voted for Clinton?

If Donnie wants to rail against fake news, he needs to start with a mirror. He can then turn to his cheerleaders on Fox and the other right wing propaganda media.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,820
136
Meanwhile, Trump has told easily disproven lies nearly every day of his administration, has an EPA that censors 'inconvenient' scientific data and reveres media outlets that seriously entertain bogus conspiracy theories, like Fox, Breitbart and InfoWars.
 

Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,281
3,083
136
Wow, talk about a pitiful "show"...a list of items on a page, probably compiled by a couple interns over the weekend.

What a shocker, Trump talking something up only to have it either not happen or be a *pffffffff*
"Next week, you'll see, more info will come out!!!" lol
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,147
6,619
126
Not true? The majority of them believed every one of them then and still believe them today. I just got "lectured" the other day here about the wonderfulness that is Paul Krugman.

Not a day goes by that we don't have three, four or more threads based in shit the media puts out to keep their ratings up. The same people that abhor big business believe every piece of fabrication these sources come up with, get their anxiety levels all amped up and post about it here as some form of misguided therapy. They are willful participants in keeping big business media sources that would otherwise have floundered and gone by the wayside alive. The people that think they are the deepest of thinkers are at the mercy of their "feelings".

Just yesterday we had a long time member proclaiming that Trump was ruining the nation and every single thread here must be centered around impeaching him! We're witnessing mass psychosis.

Takes two to Tango.
Psychopath claims he's being hunted by monsters in white coats. I realize that doctors and psychopaths are indistinguishable when you're brain dead. You're an anti-American disgrace to your country.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,758
2,086
136
What, an economist made an economic prediction which turned out to be incorrect? Wow, I've never seen that happen before. I must have imagined that libertarians have been predicting hyper-inflation every year for the past 5 decades. But that isn't fake news, because it isn't news. Someone's opinion about where the economy is headed is just that, an opinion.

It's interesting how Trump's definition of "fake news" seems to broaden more and more with time. If he accomplishes nothing else, it will be in thoroughly discrediting the phrase "fake news" by turning it into something utterly meaningless.
Not just a prediction that turned out to be incorrect, but a monumentally idiotic political statement by a partisan economic figure that not only turned out incorrect, but was so far from reality that it brought well deserved derision to Krugman and cast a layer of doubt on all his future economic predictions.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,147
6,619
126
After the “awards,” Trump ended the night with a tub of and viewing his favorite films Heathers, Mean Girls and Chicks Who Look Like Ivanka And Take It Up The Butt 7.
I think interchange might be right about the humility thingi...... I just bought a tub of Haagen-Dazs and your post was emotionally crippling.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,025
2,876
136
Oh I agree so very much. You get the same emotional speak with Bill Maher and at the end of the day it is just the other side of the coin.

With Bill, he's representing himself as a comedian/satirist/individual with a set of beliefs that more align with liberal/libertarian politics. He's not trying to represent himself as a source of objective reality nor representing a political ideology/party. That's very different from Hannity, Rush, Erikson, etc. They are still individual but identifying themselves as representative of a party/political philosophy, and although you'd think that identification would be an admission of partisan spin, they copiously claim that what is really happening is that their information and view is objective reality and the other stuff out there is liberal bias. If you find yourself agreeing with them in any part, they are trying very hard to obligate you to accept that conservatives are righteous/trustworthy, and liberals are whiny/emasculating/biased as a whole.

What you get with Rachel though, if you strip away all the emo speak, is a very long set of verifiable facts that she uses to build up a point. Facts. Facts is a precious commodity these days. That and she is gay and you just know thats a thorn in the eyes of all the bigoted Pences outthere as well. Bonus. Winning.

Certainly she's trying hard to paint a narrative that is congruent with evidence instead of convenient to support a movement. There is no comparison of her quality of evidence and rationality with Hannity.

I think the important similarity and why I say she's pulling from the playbook is that she is representing herself with a specific political affiliation and as a source of objective reality, and that there is a consistent narrative at least against the Trump administration where each piece of evidence she presents leads you to liberals as righteous/trustworthy and conservatives as bigoted/corrupt.

There was a time not so long ago when news sources (especially TV) were extremely limited, access to information was small, and even major newspapers were restricted to local circulation. People really couldn't choose to limit their information to sources they agreed with, and media organizations may have had bias but put effort into presenting the totality of relevant and accurate information. Radio was entryway for conservative media, magazines who could reach a national audience thanks to weekly or less circulation, and then the internet started taking over paper circulation & expansion of cable news networks. Really, CNN was dominant until around 9-11. Even conservatives would go there for breaking news even if they had Fox News on their cable plan.
 
Reactions: cytg111
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Hail Trump!

Not just a prediction that turned out to be incorrect, but a monumentally idiotic political statement by a partisan economic figure that not only turned out incorrect, but was so far from reality that it brought well deserved derision to Krugman and cast a layer of doubt on all his future economic predictions.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,126
4,903
136
Then you’re forgetting very recent history. The things he is ranting about are twitter posts, opinion pieces, and things like that. Obama faced far, far worse on those fronts and he paid them no attention because he was busy...you know... being president. This just makes Trump look small and pathetic.

Trump has run a uniquely inept and chaotic White House. Why people would think reporting on that is evidence of some media conspiracy is actually evidence of their own bias.

Bull shit.
 
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