Originally posted by: cwjerome
Indeed, the insurgents are making things very ugly.
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Uh no... maybe in your word. If you want to ignore the morality of things, go ahead.
Originally posted by: cwjerome
BBond says, "I have a link to pictures from Fallujah that I won't post here due to graphic content. The pictures include U.S. soldiers, 'insurgents', and pictures of kids as young as 16 months with limbs blown off and other horrendous injuries sustained in the U.S. attack on Fallujah. They also include pictures of a street in Fallujah littered with bodies of children 9 years old and younger."
Indeed, the insurgents are making things very ugly.
But the Fallujah operation represents an incredible success in military terms. Over 1600 insurgents dead, over 1000 captured, fewer than 50 Americans killed, historically low -extremely low- collateral damage in infrastructure and life, while invading and occupying a city of that size. One for the record book, and our troops should be proud. 25 years ago, we would have killed and lost a great many more lives.... 50 years ago we would have just leveled the city.
Originally posted by: cwjerome
BBond says, "I have a link to pictures from Fallujah that I won't post here due to graphic content. The pictures include U.S. soldiers, 'insurgents', and pictures of kids as young as 16 months with limbs blown off and other horrendous injuries sustained in the U.S. attack on Fallujah. They also include pictures of a street in Fallujah littered with bodies of children 9 years old and younger."
Indeed, the insurgents are making things very ugly.
But the Fallujah operation represents an incredible success in military terms. Over 1600 insurgents dead, over 1000 captured, fewer than 50 Americans killed, historically low -extremely low- collateral damage in infrastructure and life, while invading and occupying a city of that size. One for the record book, and our troops should be proud. 25 years ago, we would have killed and lost a great many more lives.... 50 years ago we would have just leveled the city.
Originally posted by: cwjerome
I'll tell you what... instead of meaningless bromides of "defending their homeland", how about you look into WHO these people are, WHAT they believe, and WHY they fight. Once you've put it into a proper context, come back to discuss.
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
1) You cannot implement democracy on another country through violence and the barrel of a gun.
*TWEEET!!!*Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
It worked in Germany/Japan...Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
1) You cannot implement democracy on another country through violence and the barrel of a gun.
Originally posted by: cwjerome
So what are we talking about here? Get over your rage, we attacked Iraq years ago. Don't you get tired of regurgitating the same puke? Save it for someone who cares about your hate and ignorance.
Klixxer, I don't even know what you're talking about... other fights, other wars... whatever.
BBond, your nonsense would make sense if you believed the attack was "unprovoked, and that the death of "innocents" was our fault. Thankfully, I don't buy that line of crap.
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why in one of the pictures are they all lined up against the wall?
FALLUJAH, Iraq - Murmuring "God is great," two dozen Iraqi men collected corpses Tuesday in a U.S. Marine-directed effort to rid Fallujah of festering bodies in keeping with Muslim burial principles.
Officers said the Marines themselves could more quickly pick up the estimated 1,200 insurgents killed in a week of fighting, but agreed with Iraqis who felt it was crucial they retrieve the remains of their fellow Muslims.
"We're Iraqis and they're Iraqis and we want to get them," said Mohammed Ali, a 32-year-old farmer helping remove bodies. "It's in our religion. The rules say that relatives or families or Arabs should help them."
Gagging amid the overpowering stench of rotting flesh, the Iraqis had to take special care because of the danger that insurgents have booby-trapped some bodies with explosives. On one stoop, the Iraqis pushed over a corpse and a grenade rolled out of its pocket. The weapon didn't detonate, but Marines quickly hurried the workers away.
Bodies lay in homes, on verandahs and in shallow, makeshift graves, buzzed over by flies and darkened by days of decomposition. Muslims generally bury their dead within 24 hours, but the fighting prevented the interment of most corpses.
U.S. Marine Capt. Alex Henegar, a civil affairs officer attached to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment, arranged the body pickup in Fallujah's hotly contested northern neighborhoods.
The collection began Sunday, with 22 corpses removed for a pauper's burial in a dusty lot on the outskirts of town.
The effort stalled Monday when the workers provided by a local religious leader demanded that Marines first open a road to their village, but they resumed work after Henegar arranged for a shipment of humanitarian aid. The crew recovered 14 bodies Tuesday.
Henegar, from Lookout Mountain, Ga., said he didn't think any other collection efforts were under way in Fallujah.
"There's no real theory behind it. It's the appropriate way of collecting the dead," he said. "It's their religion. They have their rites and we want to allow them to do it. The idea is to show respect to them, the Iraqi people, and their religion."
Henegar said authorities were eager to clear the city of bodies quickly, to lessen health risks for returning civilians.
Dr. Salah Al-Issawi, acting director of Fallujah General Hospital, voiced similar concern. "The city is completely isolated and we expect the decaying of dead bodies and the spread of diseases," he said in an interview with Al-Jazeera television.
Henegar and a small group of Marines escorted 24 Iraqis on three flatbed trucks into the northern Jolan neighborhood, where the volunteers were given latex gloves, surgical masks, hand disinfectant ? but no payment.
"We have a whole pot of money for short-term reconstruction projects like this, but they won't take a dime," Henegar said.
The Iraqis said the Quran prohibits payment for helping in a burial.
In a state of barely contained panic, the Iraqis rushed into housing compounds to lift bodies onto blankets, then into the same body bags Marines use to transport the remains of their dead colleagues. The Iraqi men coughed, gagged and choked from the stench.
With each body, the Iraqi men whispered "Allahu akbar" ? "God is great ? three times.
They found four bodies that had been hastily buried outside a house in shallow graves, marked by cinder blocks. The Iraqis dug up the bodies, wrapped them in blankets and lifted them onto a truck. A message written on a wall in front of the graves identified the corpses as two men and two women.
"This is a disaster. But unfortunately it's the war," Sheik Hamed Farhan Abu Shahin, a local elder helping arrange the collection, told Henegar, who nodded agreement.
Bodies are scattered across Fallujah after fighting that began Nov. 8. The U.S. military declared the Sunni Muslim stronghold captured within a week, with 38 Americans, six Iraqi soldiers and an estimated 1,200 insurgents dead.
"This exemplifies the horrors of war," said Marine Capt. P.J. Batty, from Park City, Utah, of the body pickup. "We don't wish this upon anyone, but everyone needs to understand there are consequences for not following the Iraqi government."
"This exemplifies the horrors of war," said Marine Capt. P.J. Batty, from Park City, Utah, of the body pickup. "We don't wish this upon anyone, but everyone needs to understand there are consequences for not following the Iraqi government."
With each post you only dig deeper. Put down the shovel and come out of the hole...Originally posted by: cwjerome
So what are we talking about here? Get over your rage, we attacked Iraq years ago. Don't you get tired of regurgitating the same puke? Save it for someone who cares about your hate and ignorance.
Klixxer, I don't even know what you're talking about... other fights, other wars... whatever.
BBond, your nonsense would make sense if you believed the attack was "unprovoked, and that the death of "innocents" was our fault. Thankfully, I don't buy that line of crap.
Originally posted by: conjur
Looks like they just collected the bodies and lined them up for easier bagging?Originally posted by: miketheidiot
why in one of the pictures are they all lined up against the wall?
All that sensitivity has left 100,000 civilians dead. Please, hold the sensitivity.Originally posted by: Pete84
I agree with you. There is no blood under the bodies, and the arms are stiff in unnatural postions that wouldn't be possible if they died in the location.
This has been one of the most sensitive wars of all time.
There is no comparison between Iraq and WWII. Hitler and Hirohito threatened to conquer a large part of the globe. Saddam was a toothless tiger that we attacked unprovoked.The concern for civilian casualties is incredible, especially considering that in WWII the allies bombed cities to kill and dishearten the civilian population. The bombing of Dresden was of no use, it had no military value worth such death. More civilians were killed there than the Atomic strikes against Japan.
We all know how terrible war is. Why did Bush start this one? Didn't he know?Wars are terrible, and until you are in a society that is in the middle of a trully bloody conflict it is near impossible to understand.
George W. Bush calls the Chechens 'rebels'. Hmmm...like I was saying in another thread, terrorists are in the eye of the beholder.I was living in Moscow when the Chechyan wars were in full swing, and the news was sickening to watch. Terrorist strikes on apartment buildings and busses was gruisome, and that is something that I won't forget.
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Shame on the "insurgents" for carrying out this conflict.
The insurgents reacted to an invasion. If someone invaded the US claiming Bush stole the election and that we needed regime change would you fight the invaders or not?
Your logic is as flawed as your spelling.Originally posted by: bigal40
That is a piss poor example. Saddam Hussein was clearly a dictator not choosen by his people. Saddam was a known war criminal and he was known to have killed his own people. The invaders are not ighting for Saddam but they are radicals out to kill Americans. Our entry was justified wether or not WMD were found.Originally posted by: Infohawk
The insurgents reacted to an invasion. If someone invaded the US claiming Bush stole the election and that we needed regime change would you fight the invaders or not?Originally posted by: cwjerome
Shame on the "insurgents" for carrying out this conflict.
Originally posted by: bigal40
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Shame on the "insurgents" for carrying out this conflict.
The insurgents reacted to an invasion. If someone invaded the US claiming Bush stole the election and that we needed regime change would you fight the invaders or not?
That is a piss poor example. Saddam Hussein was clearly a dictator not choosen by his people. Saddam was a known war criminal and he was known to have killed his own people. The invaders are not ighting for Saddam but they are radicals out to kill Americans. Our entry was justified wether or not WMD were found.
Originally posted by: Pete84
BTW I am a Libertarian. The attack on Iraq was essentially flawed. I was not for it at all. Any such international aggression must be EXTREMELY well based, intelligence just isn't good enough. Heck, if anyone, we should have attackd North Korea or Iran, countries that are much more dangerous than Iraq.
Let the world %&%*%(( itself. I couldn't care too much. If anyone touches the USA tho, they are so gonna be so the greating party for the next Stone Age.
Originally posted by: cwjerome
BBond, you only see what you want to see. And it doesn't help that you, conjur, infohawk, and all the other intellectual dweebs put America, American policies, and American troops on the SAME MORAL PLANE as the terorrists and insurgents. No wonder your people's brainfarts are relegated to isolated spots on the internet and not rational debate.