Final Fantasy 13

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KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
3,655
0
71
ign is the worst place in the world for accurate game ratings.

I was just reading IGN and noticed that FF13 was one of their biggest disappointments of the year.

One thing that jumped out was this:

ign said:
Final Fantasy XIII is a great JRPG and sports a fast-paced, challenging, satisfying battle system. The game also boasts an intricate story, a likeable cast of characters and the best visuals in the series yet (of course).
8.9 Great
Editors choice.

Just seems contradictory.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
Well about 3 hours or so in and the cast isnt terrible. Hope and Snow are kind of annoying but the rest are likable and I feel like Lightnings emotions are much more realistic so I can relate to her somewhat. Unlike Snow who I keep asking myself what he is thinking. Battle system just got interesting and after some early learning issues with the tutorial boss fight I think its a good idea and plays well.

Its less about micromanaging every action but rather macromanaging which is a neat change of pace. We'll see how I like it after another 15 hours or so though xD
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
A comment that is being thrown a lot is going back to the basics. What is back to basics? Exactly what does it entail? Let us look at what was written:
+I wish Square would go back to the basics like FFIV and FFVI, and even FFVII (although I didn't like technology and stuff as much but loved the story and characters) instead of trying to be all dramatic and big budget like.

+what i liked so much about 9 was that it had the old school FF feel. black wizard, classic folk/medieval settings. it was a gem that far too many people shit on.

of course, these are the same people that think 8 and 10 were tits.

Let us get a list based on these comments
- Medieval environment
- Character Designs and Styles
- Character development
- Not too Dramatic

That was done in FF9 exactly as you wished – kingdoms, knights, its all there in spades; hell in FF9 they even refused to get too much advanced tech because everything was driven by steam power (although to be fair - steam power is not medieval technology). After 8 Final fantasies, they did indeed go ‘back to the basics’. Didn’t seem like they forgot. Since then we are on FF14 – but we’ve only really had 3 more RPGs since then – 10, 12, 13. FF9 is relatively recent in that regard, Square hasn’t strayed away too far. Even FF12’s environment is reminiscent of a medieval environment, and it even takes place in the same land of FFT.

Furthermore, the post references FF7 as fitting the bill to go 'back to the basics', but immediately follows up with a contradictory statement saying that "you didn't like the technology". How can we ‘go back to the basics’, when it seems the fundamentals are not explained clearly?

Go look at a FF3/6 --> there is no 'back to basics' argument right there with regard the environment because this game involved technology everywhere - big ass robots shooting lasers, empire with warrior troops of different tiers that will bust out guns, bosses that will throw missiles at you, etc. etc. the medieval fantasy doesn't exist in the way that it is claimed. Closest thing would be “1800s England accidently stumbles upon Lasers” , and the 1800s was not the medieval period in any sense.
Sure FF1 had that environment…but FF1 had a robot race as well. Doesn’t fit ‘medieval folklore’ very well when there is a race of robots with their own town.


Let us revise that list
- Medieval environment  Nope, not consistent
- Character Designs and Styles
- Character development
- Not too Dramatic

So I'm assuming than that it isn't about the medieval environment...it must be something else. Is it characters walking around in a robe and wizard hat? FF7 had absolutely none of that - I remember a guy with an elite merc group and a big ass sword, another guy with a gun grafted to his arm, another vampire-esque character that literally used guns, a guy with a ship that put on turbo thrusters, characters that work for corporations, etc. etc.
Where is the robe and wizard had in FF6? I don’t see it. Where are the clearly define knights in FF6? A rune knight? Would anyone know that unless they went in to see her exact title? We do have a classic knight, but we got to remember that he was made over the top and not the name, and they even used his speak mannerisms as a way to poke fun at him.


Let us revise that list
- Medieval environment  Nope, not consistent
- Character Designs and Styles  Nope, not consistent
- Character development
- Not too Dramatic


So then, is ‘back to basics’ really about a desire to have characters play the initial role they were intended to play(ie: A mage is the black magic user, a priest is a white magic user, period! You don’t learn the other spells)? Another way to put it is like this: have very limited character growth beyond whatever expectation that the developers set? Dagger had the healing role, therefore, she must always be the healer? Yuna has to play the role of the healer? Is that it? Clearly it is all I can that can logically make sense as the enviornments and character designs don't fit what you claimed them to fit.
To be honest, even though you can build characters to do whatever you want (my Tidus in FF10 is an awesome healer), if you want to truly min/max you have to follow their initial set paths: Let lulu be the black mage master, let Yuna pump out magic like crazy (and she was clearly my most powerful white magic user).

And even historically, it isn’t always true that FF restricted classes like this – FF5 (which you would probably cite as fitting that medieval feel) had a job system that literally let one build a character in any way that they preferred.

Lets go back to FF3/6 for a moment – even though each character started off with unique base stats – if you simply chose your espers correctly you could make a magic user a strong formidable character and vice versa just by switching the espers right before they leveled – +2 to str +2 to magic depending on what you want. Of course, it is just easier to let the user with high magic damage focus on magic, but it isn’t anywhere near keeping them as unique individual characters that have their own roles.

Let us revise that list
- Medieval environment  Nope, not consistent
- Character Designs and Styles  Nope, not consistent
- Character development  Nope, not consistent
- Not too Dramatic



That leaves us with ‘Dramatic’. Was the story in FF_anything NOT dramatic? Save the world/universe/galaxy! That is every FF summed up! For each era in which the game existed, FF pushed graphical boundaries and presentation (although IMO Chrono Cross looked better than FF9…but I think I enjoyed the art more as well). The complaint that it is too dramatic, and focuses on big budget is the result of more money being poured into the gaming industry.


Let us revise that list
- Medieval environment  Nope, not consistent
- Character Designs and Styles  Nope, not consistent
- Character development  Nope, not consistent
- Not too Dramatic  Nope, they were all dramatic

....or perhaps you are idealizing what the games actually were, and instead you are fitting your own memories to the game~


Although, to be fair, FF1 did fit your description…somewhat (if we forget about the robots).
FF5 fits it....if we forget that everyone can be everything.
FFT fits it....the environment is exactly as you want, but watch me turn my entire party into calculators and roll over anything. Geek Power FTW. Or watch me turn them all into OPed monks and face melt anything that stand in my way…of course, if I run into super OPed Chocobos I’m essentially pwned.


There are very very few things common between most FFs, and they revolve around relatively pointless things (someone named Cid, a bird called a chocobo) that isn’t key to a story. Even ATB, which was a hallmark of the series for the whole 1990s, was tossed away (and for many good reasons as it just wastes time).
What makes FF a FF is a an RPG with a story with fantasy elements involving magic and linear plot with high production values that is produced by a company called SquareSoft. Regretfully, we can add in ‘emo characters’ to that list as well as it seems to be more and more true.
 
Last edited:

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
Alright got a question in here. How do you all decide how to setup a paradigm? I just beat the Garuda monster thing outside of the lake last night and unlocked saboteur on Hope and synergist on Vannile and I'm thinking I should fit these to a paradigm.

Right now I start with Relentless Assault with a Commando and 2 Ravagers and then swap to Diversity when I'm running low on health which is a Commando, Ravager, Medic. I'm guessing I should start battles as some combo including a saboteur and a synergist then move to an Assault style one and then swap to one with a medic when I get low on health? I'm thinking using Lightning Hope and Vannile is my best bet right now.

Thats another thing I honestly cannot figure out how to adjust who fights with me. Right now Hope is not in my active party and I cannot select him. Is it just too early in the game for that? Or is there a way to select it myself?
 

IGemini

Platinum Member
Nov 5, 2010
2,472
2
81
Alright got a question in here. How do you all decide how to setup a paradigm? I just beat the Garuda monster thing outside of the lake last night and unlocked saboteur on Hope and synergist on Vannile and I'm thinking I should fit these to a paradigm.

Right now I start with Relentless Assault with a Commando and 2 Ravagers and then swap to Diversity when I'm running low on health which is a Commando, Ravager, Medic. I'm guessing I should start battles as some combo including a saboteur and a synergist then move to an Assault style one and then swap to one with a medic when I get low on health? I'm thinking using Lightning Hope and Vannile is my best bet right now.

You have the general idea. It's mostly knowing who has what abilities so far and knowing how to put them together. It's pretty easy to go on the offensive with a Relentless Assault paradigm in earlier battles, but later in the game you'll run into some enemies with major HP count and buffs/status effects will be more important. The game makes it so you learn to experiment with different paradigms. By the time you reach the end you should've used most possible combinations.

Thats another thing I honestly cannot figure out how to adjust who fights with me. Right now Hope is not in my active party and I cannot select him. Is it just too early in the game for that? Or is there a way to select it myself?
It's too early for free party control. IIRC, you don't have that until around chapter 8-9.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,253
1
0
I just bought FF 13 and am about 2 hours into it. I was just wondering if the gameplay was going to get any better than walking in a line and hitting the X button. Then I logged into ATCG to see what people say, and I found this thread.

FF 7 is one of my top 3 games of all time too.

I'm really enjoying the artwork in 13, but the gameplay is pretty boring so far. The little boy is a seriously annoying pvssy too. And what kind of schmuck goes around screaming "Your hero is here!"

Well, I've played a bit more, and gotten access to paradigms and eidolon (although I still don't really understand how this works). Things are much more exciting now.

Hope is still an annoying pvssy.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
Well, I've played a bit more, and gotten access to paradigms and eidolon (although I still don't really understand how this works). Things are much more exciting now.

Hope is still an annoying pvssy.

I agree I hate Hope.

Though honestly all recent FF games have early linear storytelling gameplay. FFVII had all of midgar until it opened up. FFIX had Alexandria and the forest area and the game really didn't truly open up until much later. FFX had the city I can't remember the name but Tidus and Auron basically run forward and destroy things until he wakes up in Besaid.

I do like the paradigm system so far. Though at times it can be infuriating if you swap to a medic paradigm and you medic had just fired off 3 spells as a ravager and you have to wait for the recharge at low health while other times they fire off 3 cures because you swapped early just in case. Also fully buffing takes forever and my ratings suffer when I buff fully off the start on tough trash fights and even some bosses.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,686
31,023
146
I don't have a working ps2 anymore and I never owned a ps1

I have BC PS3 (mostly b/c of my PS2 games, though--I still hadn't finished GOW2 when I was "forced" into the PS3 upgrade (broken DVD player), and retained hopes that I might get around to finishing FFXII at some point.

...well, that was almost 4 years ago. FFXII still gathers dust. what a turd.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,686
31,023
146
A comment that is being thrown a lot is going back to the basics. What is back to basics? Exactly what does it entail? Let us look at what was written:


Let us get a list based on these comments
- Medieval environment
- Character Designs and Styles
- Character development
- Not too Dramatic

That was done in FF9 exactly as you wished – kingdoms, knights, its all there in spades; hell in FF9 they even refused to get too much advanced tech because everything was driven by steam power (although to be fair - steam power is not medieval technology). After 8 Final fantasies, they did indeed go ‘back to the basics’. Didn’t seem like they forgot. Since then we are on FF14 – but we’ve only really had 3 more RPGs since then – 10, 12, 13. FF9 is relatively recent in that regard, Square hasn’t strayed away too far. Even FF12’s environment is reminiscent of a medieval environment, and it even takes place in the same land of FFT.

whoa, lots of thought into this! I'll just snip and comment on the bolded, right now, read the rest in a bit.

An ancient Greek engineer actually designed a proto-steam engine which he used as a demonstration in principle--A simple "spinny thing" that he considered nothing more than a whimsy. Didn't think much of it at the time, but had he applied it towards a serviceable function, We would have had steam engines then.

Yes, not a medieval technology--b/c the Greeks had it ~1000 yrs before the medieval period.

Of course, then you look into machines like the Antiketheron device, and have to wonder what kind of technology the Greeks really had.
 

Minjin

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2003
2,208
1
81
How bad is it that I've never played a Final Fantasy game? Or at least not that I can recall. Maybe I did at a friend's house as a kid...

For reference, I love RPGs and off the top of my head, my gold standard would be Baldur's Gate and Planescape:Torment.
 

warcrow

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
11,078
11
81
I need your help guys.

I fired this game up last night and started from the beginning (for the 3rd time), but I'm having a tough time getting past the 2 hour mark. Can someone inspire me? I really like the idea of playing this game but I'm afraid in practice I'm a little too bored--at least at this point. It does get better right? The combat gets more complicated?

I dont recall ever having such an odd relationship with a game I've never played before.
 

Spydermag68

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2002
2,616
99
91
@warcrow

For the first 5 hours the battle system will suck until you can do more things with it. There is no way around this. I just concentrated on the parts of the game that you like.

I did not upgrade you weapons for a long time. ex: upgraded from a level one weapon to level 3. I forget what the name of the creature it is, Adamantoise or Adamantortoise you run across first, but they drop great loot when it happens, like a gold nugget. with these creatures I "Spammed Death" with Vanille. Just casting death over and over until I had killed it. Once I had gotten 3 tetrahedrons and several nuggets. I then upgraded my main party. Light, Fang, and Hope. With one of Fangs level 3 weapons you can break it down again for 3 of the tetrahedrons.
 

exar333

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2004
8,518
8
91
The game gets pretty good at about 20 hours (when you finally get to explore on your own). The battle system is fully fledged-out after maybe 4-6 hours IIRC, and then gets pretty good. TBH it's the best FF battle system for a long time, I enjoyed it a lot.

The story and characters are mostly "meh", but the fighting and crafting were done very well.
 

zokudu

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2009
4,364
1
81
Yea if your looking for combat just hold on till you leave the Hanging Edge or w.e its called. Up until then its just spamming attack and using potions. Once you leave there you get access to Paradigms and then things get fun.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
I need your help guys.

I fired this game up last night and started from the beginning (for the 3rd time), but I'm having a tough time getting past the 2 hour mark. Can someone inspire me? I really like the idea of playing this game but I'm afraid in practice I'm a little too bored--at least at this point. It does get better right? The combat gets more complicated?

I dont recall ever having such an odd relationship with a game I've never played before.

While some of the above players have said it gets good, as a counterpoint, for me it never got good.

Sure paradigms open up and stuff and you can switch how your party acts but that is NOT a fun battle system. You never really have to pay attention to anything graphical or happening on the screen, all you really do it just kind of stare at the health bars slamming x.

I mean, this was every single battle in the game for me.

Start - Ravagers with commando
Wait 10 minutes
Oh look it got staggered - Commando
I'm low on health- Medics

5 star.

All I am doing this entire time is slamming x and ever 60 seconds or so switching paradigm to heal or to take advantage of stagger.

My x button serisouly got worn down because thats all I was doing, pressing forward and smashing on X every time a enemy came. I didn't even know what skills I had at all because I never needed to look at ANY of the menus. Autobattle always chooses the best combination and your team mates require zero taking care of. Hell, gambits were somewhat interesting because you could customize them however you wanted, but you can't in 13. Combat was such a bore that I stopped even paying attention during random encounters because I could blast through them by smashing on X.

Also the lacks freaking any sort of side quests, interesting missions or anything. No interaction with NPC's, cities(or the singular because most of them are glorified corridors) are boring with nothing to do, and when it does open up, all it is, is a giant grassy plain.

So that was my experience. In my opinion one of the wost FF's ever created. Nothing that gave the previous FF's their charm is retained and also the story really sucks.
 
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secretanchitman

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
9,352
23
91
its either a love it/hate it game. i love it, and besides the linearity and the sometimes kind of lifeless story and characters (sazh is kind of annoying, though some people love him), its a real good game.
 

xCxStylex

Senior member
Apr 6, 2003
710
0
0
You either love it or you hate it.

I enjoyed it very much, as it was a fresh change from queued actions. For me, it gave a masked sense of efficiency by swapping "classes" to kill enemies faster, and this might only be understood by someone that has played the game. No matter how you look at it, any "RPG" is a repetitive grind, but each individual person determines what is fun.

My only gripes were

1 - The Crystarium system was a pretty but somewhat cumbersome masking of a linear progression. There was a standard linear progression with a few optional stats along the way, at least for the primary class. It would have been nicer if you could level it faster as taking minutes to level a few characters that haven't been played for a few hours was boring as hell for me to hold down the button.

2 - Character development. Hate it or love it, every player liked or hated different characters. I absolutely loved Lightning, Sazh, and Vanille's characters and development (although I hated Vanille's voice and overly stupid cutesy physical behavior though). Hope was initially annoying and his character was stereotypical of that of a video game RPG. As the game played out, I could empathize with his character development, and especially Vanille's, on a personal level. Snow was j

3 - The beginning of the "non linear world" was confusing for me at first, because some monsters would roflstomp my face in a few hits. Only after asking a few others did I realize I was supposed to find and kill easier monsters for a while before proceeding.

Almost 60 hours of enjoyable gameplay for $30, well worth it for me.
 
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