Florida High School Shooting

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rise

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2004
9,116
46
91
The biggest problem is TV and newspapers using these things to drive their ratings at the expense of lives lost to copy cats that want attention and have seen how well it works.
Who was cruz copying? I missed that link? Was their a particular shooter he liked?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
-snip-

In fact, 2nd amendment people fought tooth and nail for actual criminals to get their guns back after completion of time served for crimes with the SCOTUS finally stepping in and saying lets be reasonable here.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-control-advocates-on-felon-ban-idUSKBN19H1KZ

It seems odd that the very same people truly and honestly and earnestly want to take guns away pre-emptively from non-criminals.

You've got this completely wrong. However it is a very poorly written/error filled article.

IMO, 2 amendments advocates are not generally supporters of felons having access to guns.

The SCOTUS:

The justices let stand a lower court’s ruling that uniformly denying felons whose crimes were not serious the right to own guns violated the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment, which protects the right to “keep and bear arms.”

I'm not sure what you mean by "SCOTUS finally stepping in and saying lets be reasonable here"; but the SCOTUS ruling was more in favor of guns rights for "felons" than you seem to think. ("Felons" is this context means any crime with a possible sentence of 1 yrs or more.) So, you've got that completely wrong.

Check this out:

Trump has strongly embraced the National Rifle Association but his administration in this case was on the same side as gun rights advocates including the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence is a "gun rights advocate? That's wrong, it's a gun control advocate. The author got that all wrong. The Trump admin was opposed to restoring gun rights to criminals, so you got that wrong.

The administration added that too many felons whose gun ownership rights were restored for various reasons have gone on to commit violent crimes.

^ This is clearly not 2nd amendment proponents advocating to restore gun rights to criminals/felons. Heck it's the complete opposite of that. You've horribly misunderstood this (crappy) article.

Fern
 
Last edited:

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
The biggest problem is TV and newspapers using these things to drive their ratings at the expense of lives lost to copy cats that want attention and have seen how well it works.

Yes, it is a problem. I'm afraid it will inspire and motivate copy cats. Further it raises the awareness of crazies and wanna-be terrorists of how soft and easy of a target schools are.

Similarly with bump stocks. I'd never even heard of them before the Vegas shooting. I suspect many people were also unaware of their existence. Well now all the crazies and wanna-be terrorists know about them.

Fern
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I wasn’t aware CNN killed anyone, link?


Come on man. It's known that these kids seek imfamy and more news coverage does that. How many copy carts did we hear about being stopped after this?

Coverage like we have does make things worse. If you want to argue that it's something we have to accept fine, but it's not neutral.
 

Alpha One Seven

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2017
1,098
124
66
Stop thinking ahead damn you! I can't believe how little this is mentioned in all these discussions.

What happens for youth sports? Talk about soft targets. Churches, malls, libraries, medical center.

Lets try getting rid of military weapons before we militarize our society.
You are free to get rid of yours, and do you want to be the guy going around trying to round up every military type weapon in the US, good luck.
Hint: It won't actually work.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Come on man. It's known that these kids seek imfamy and more news coverage does that. How many copy carts did we hear about being stopped after this?

Coverage like we have does make things worse. If you want to argue that it's something we have to accept fine, but it's not neutral.
We’ve had cable tv for a long time, school shootings really ramped up this year, this year is an outlier or worse.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
We’ve had cable tv for a long time, school shootings really ramped up this year, this year is an outlier or worse.

How do you think that proves anything? Eating a cheeseburger is not a problem unless you already are obese. Sometimes things are fine, until things are bad then they make things worse.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
How do you think that proves anything? Eating a cheeseburger is not a problem unless you already are obese. Sometimes things are fine, until things are bad then they make things worse.
So news made it jump to what, 8 in as many weeks? But only this year? This year the news coverage helped cause it, but not other years? Ok
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
Its pretty clear that everyone in the "chain of command" failed to do a damn thing. Utter failure on every level, local, state, and federal. Really just pathetic. I hope at least it is a learning experience to help to prevent future acts like this. Over correcting is a problem too, square root is a gun now? Really?

The anti-gun nutters don't help their argument a lot of the time. AK47 stands for automatic killer, that fires 47 rounds per trigger pull? Chainsaw bayonet on a AR-15? Rifle shoots 3x the speed of a pistol? Pistol shots are like a knife wound? Easier to buy an AR15 than cold medicine? I mean wtf are these people thinking? Killing your argument with ignorance and lies. Seriously, chainsaw bayonet? This is from USA Today... supposedly a major news outlet. Hard to view them as credible at anything after that.

If these deputies did just not go in because they were scared, I can't even express how upset I am about that. Everyone has a fight or flight, and I have seen in first hand. Band of Brothers shows it pretty clearly too. If they were not given an order, did not have some protocol to do that, then it makes me sick. I don't understand how you couldn't break any rule to go in and try to save kids. Some people have it in them, some don't. If they just didn't feel like it, fired and maybe even in legal trouble from families. You either got it, or you don't.
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Its pretty clear that everyone in the "chain of command" failed to do a damn thing. Utter failure on every level, local, state, and federal. Really just pathetic. I hope at least it is a learning experience to help to prevent future acts like this. Over correcting is a problem too, square root is a gun now? Really?

The anti-gun nutters don't help their argument a lot of the time. AK47 stands for automatic killer, that fires 47 rounds per trigger pull? Chainsaw bayonet on a AR-15? Rifle shoots 3x the speed of a pistol? Pistol shots are like a knife wound? Easier to buy an AR15 than cold medicine? I mean wtf are these people thinking? Killing your argument with ignorance and lies. Seriously, chainsaw bayonet? This is from USA Today... supposedly a major news outlet. Hard to view them as credible at anything after that.

If these deputies did just not go in because they were scared, I can't even express how upset I am about that. Everyone has a fight or flight, and I have seen in first hand. Band of Brothers shows it pretty clearly too. If they were not given an order, did not have some protocol to do that, then it makes me sick. I don't understand how you couldn't break any rule to go in and try to save kids. Some people have it in them, some don't. If they just didn't feel like it, fired and maybe even in legal trouble from families. You either got it, or you don't.
Do you feel the legislature let them down as well?
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
Do you feel the legislature let them down as well?

If you're asking if I support a ban of an AR15, no I do not. If you're asking if there should have been something done for this particular person buying a gun, then I would say yes. I don't know when he bought it, it is pretty obvious he had issues for years. I'm not sure how we fix the issue to where he shouldn't have been allowed to own a weapon of any kid after his repeated run ins with the law, and making very specific threats to the school. Somewhere along the line there needs to be information shared like this. I am not sure exactly what you are asking.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
So news made it jump to what, 8 in as many weeks? But only this year? This year the news coverage helped cause it, but not other years? Ok

How do you not understand that? We know many of the shooters are looking for attention and infamy, so how does news not give them that? Of course news helped cause things before this year.

By your logic, mass shootings are new to American society. What makes guns a problem now but not in the past? The answer is simple, things changed, that's why.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
If you're asking if I support a ban of an AR15, no I do not. If you're asking if there should have been something done for this particular person buying a gun, then I would say yes. I don't know when he bought it, it is pretty obvious he had issues for years. I'm not sure how we fix the issue to where he shouldn't have been allowed to own a weapon of any kid after his repeated run ins with the law, and making very specific threats to the school. Somewhere along the line there needs to be information shared like this. I am not sure exactly what you are asking.
The law makes it harder to take away his guns, they have the most lenient gun laws, they’re known as the test bed NRA state. I wasn’t referring to bans.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
How do you not understand that? We know many of the shooters are looking for attention and infamy, so how does news not give them that? Of course news helped cause things before this year.

By your logic, mass shootings are new to American society. What makes guns a problem now but not in the past? The answer is simple, things changed, that's why.
I understand it fine, I don’t buy into that it caused that drastic of a change in one year, two months if you want to get picky..
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
The law makes it harder to take away his guns, they have the most lenient gun laws, they’re known as the test bed NRA state. I wasn’t referring to bans.

I was speaking more of not letting him get them from the get go. If these issue were reported prior to him legally purchasing the rifle. I would be for, but not sure how we would incorporate, some way of taking away the ability to own a weapon if a person commits certain act after they've legally purchased a gun. No matter what kind. Person buys a gun, then threatens to shoot up a school, he should have his ownership revoked in my opinion. There has to be shared information, and it would not be easy at all, but there were just too many damn signs with this guy. Literally every step of the way something should have been done. I don't want to hear anything about a hard childhood either. And I'm tired of hearing how "remorseful" he is. He isn't. He calculated the best way to do this, pulled the fire alarm to get them in a group, tried to flee and hide. He knowingly, and willingly did this. He knew right from wrong. He's only sorry he got caught. What I don't want to happen is tax payers footing the bill for his lifetime for this. Different subject, but he doesn't get the privilege of living after this to me.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,225
136
Got a question....who is paying for the liability insurance to cover the teachers who are armed and could potentially shoot an innocent by accident? Can't imagine that'd be cheap.

And do we completely indemnify the armed teachers from lawsuits filed for accidental shootings/deaths?
 
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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
Got a question....who is paying for the liability insurance to cover the teachers who are armed and could potentially shoot an innocent by accident? Can't imagine that'd be cheap.

And do we completely indemnify the armed teachers from lawsuits filed for accidental shootings/deaths?
What better way to get rid of public schools, a few high dollar lawsuits and the state is out of money.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
The anti-gun nutters don't help their argument a lot of the time. AK47 stands for automatic killer, that fires 47 rounds per trigger pull? Chainsaw bayonet on a AR-15? Rifle shoots 3x the speed of a pistol? Pistol shots are like a knife wound? Easier to buy an AR15 than cold medicine? I mean wtf are these people thinking? Killing your argument with ignorance and lies. Seriously, chainsaw bayonet? This is from USA Today... supposedly a major news outlet. Hard to view them as credible at anything after that.

Some of these are in fact accurate, so I have no idea why you're saying it's in nutter territory. Centerfire rifle cartridges are much faster and do significantly more damage (i.e. ~3 times or more energy to dump). Never mind this Cruz kid shows yet again how so many unstable people are easily able to get semi-autos.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,498
560
126
Some of these are in fact accurate, so I have no idea why you're saying it's in nutter territory. Centerfire rifle cartridges are much faster and do significantly more damage (i.e. ~3 times or more energy to dump). Never mind this Cruz kid shows yet again how so many unstable people are easily able to get semi-autos.

https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/967043934601072640?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/msnbc-handguns-are-too-slow-to-stop-a-school-shooter/

Energy does not equal speed. Its a blatant lie. Handguns stop shooters all the time. Saying a pistol is too slow, is just idiotic. As I said, this does not help the anti gun nutter crowd. Feel free to read my post where I said I did not support him owning a weapon.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,660
30,956
146
You think my solution to gun deaths is to remove signs? Your is not am the smart.

You said that the sign telling everyone that no guns are allowed is a huge target to go commit gun murder.

You literally complained about the signs and said they aren't helping.

So, why not remove the sign? It leaves the would-be murderer with a sense of mystery: "I don't know...maybe they could be armed?"

It's the easiest, first, cheapest, and possibly only effective strategy compared to whatever nonsense you've cocked up that is merely tangentially related to "freedom."

meanwhile, your ilk's retarded solution is to arm individuals that will absolutely refuse to be armed in large order. "Oh I have no intent to force my freedom down your throat, but if you want to teach...yeah, you're going to have to go learn to be a killer, now. Apparently we can't do police very well, and since we still can't pay you properly to be a teacher, we need you to also be police, oh and don't expect a raise."

You guys really do think up the dumbest shit, where the only solution is ever going to be some version of "moar murder guns!"

The gun lobby is proud of your dependable servitude, slave.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,549
761
146
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/967043934601072640?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/msnbc-handguns-are-too-slow-to-stop-a-school-shooter/

Energy does not equal speed. Its a blatant lie. As I said, this does not help the anti gun nutter crowd. Feel free to read my post where I said I did not support him owning a weapon.

You know, it's easy to look up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

60 (3.9 g) Nosler partition Speed 3,160 ft/s Energy 1,330 ft⋅lbf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×19mm_Parabellum

8.04 g (124 gr) Cor-Bon JHP +P+ Speed 1,250 ft/s Energy 434 ft⋅lbf

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/263931

"Wounds inflicted by high velocity, center-fire rifles firing hunting ammunition are radically different from wounds caused by handguns or .22 rim-fire rifles. Injuries from pistol or .22 rim-fire bullets are confined to tissue and organs directly in the wound track. In contrast, high velocity rifle bullets can injure structures without actually contacting them. This is due to the temporary cavity produced by such missiles with the resultant shock waves having pressures of up to 200 atmospheres (20 MPa). Organs struck by such high velocity rifle bullets may undergo partial or complete disintegration. Hunting ammunition, as it passes through the body, tends to shed fragments of lead from its core, producing a characteristic snowstorm picture on X-ray."
 
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