Florida's civil rights problem.

[brxndxn]

Next thing you know, people that are merely arrested will start losing their rights. (me)


The civil rights in the US have been trampled on. It's a seriously screwed-up situation. For people that say, "Do not commit the crime, or you'll do the time." - You know nothing about merely being arrested and forced to serve a few days in jail because the state plans on prosecuting you even though the parties involved called to drop the charges...

 

[AlienCraft]

More whining by the selfish minority....
I'll bet you signed documents stating that you acknowledeged being advised of what was going on.
I'll also bet at that tender age , you weren't listening to anyone in a position of authority.
It seems as if you still don't "get it". I've noticed you dance around revealing what it is you were convicted of. Perhaps THAT might be a clue as to why you are treated differently. The severity of the crime is addressed in the punishments.
If that Judge was so sympathetic, why didn't he reduce the crime to a misdemeanour? Since when is "revenge" not violent in it's basic concept? If the only response that is acceptable to felonious behavior is incarceration, you limit society's abiliity to structure punishment in a manner that is befitting the crime.
It also seems to me that you have missed the point of the difference between Felony and Misdemeanor. You've also misplaced the blame. Keep blaming everyone but yourself. That shows that real self examination and change has occured. riiiight...
It's no one's fault but yours.
You showed you have problems with judgement in times of stress. I don't think you need a gun for recreational purposes.
This thread seems to be more about what you "want" and not so much about anyone's civil rights. YOU abdicated your civil rights when you engaged in criminal/ anti-social behavior. YOU violated your bosses civil rights by CHOOSING your criminal act and acting on it.
Your expectation of being made whole after your "debt to society" has been paid is very selfish. I seemed to miss the contrition that an honest and true change of heart would generate. Did you EVER offer an apology or some sort of restituiton to the victim?
YOU are not the VICTIM, BTW. You will always be the PERPETATOR in this event. You broke the trust in the implied agreement that all citizens assume between each other, in such a gross manner as to have been found GUILTY. You don't get to go start over in life.
Why don't you put your efforts in REDUCING the number of felons that society generates in the first place rather than whining about how you have been "wronged"? This goes to the rest of your apologists as well.
Go back to school and become educated in the law and CHANGE THEM as an attorney or advocate if there is something you don't like. I'll bet the FLA. Legal BAR will accept a felon with a "non-violent" conviction.
Volunteer with an "At-Risk Youth group" .
Try to become a positive influence in the community in general and let go of these feelings that you've been wronged. You fractured the "trust" that exists between all citizens by commiting crime. Do something other than whine about how YOUR civil rights have been violated, in order to elevate yourself.
Just be glad we don't use public stocks anymore. BTW, back then you wouldn't have been accepted back into the community after a gross crime against someone either.

BTW, Felons in CA. lose those rights as well. Do us a favor and stay in FLA.

< Grandfather (83) was murdered in a home invasion robbery by a former housekeeper and 3 others. Motive? Money for drugs. Result? Main offender (mutliple felon) died while in prison from AIDS, The female facilitator will be in prison for the rest of her life and the other 2 accomplices are sitting in a South Carolina Prison for a few more years.
As a result, my "stereotypical California liberal views" are a bit skewed.
YMMV.

 

[ILikeStuff]

Originally posted by: snooker
nor feel I should, leave to get back something I didn't even know was gone until I tried to buy a hunting rifle a year ago

If you didn't know this until a year ago when trying to purchase said firearm, you obviously didn't try to vote, otherwise you would have found this out long before 1 year ago. Be honest, this is about you owning a gun and not voting.

With that out of the way, I could understand the stance of not letting a known violent criminal own a gun, but saying "all felons" can't own guns is down right silly. I think you should be able to purchase a firearm.

I also think you should be allowed to vote.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Pointless blathering by AlienCraft

Can't you comprehend anything? He did whatever he had to do to make restitution for his crime. There is no reason to keep paying for it. Where does it stop for you? Are you actually proposing that he can NEVER make a repayment for his crime, regardless of its nature? HE PAYED HIS DEBT. END OF STORY. I don't give a flying f*ck about your own experiences, because they simply don't matter. You have maid this incredibly long pointless post when you don't even have the slightest clue what he did!

And by stating that your point of view is skewed by your own personal experience, you have openly admitted that your position is driven by emotion rather than logical thought.

 

[mcveigh]

well I don't think that crime should be a felony but if a convicted murderer is parolled then I don't think they should be able to vote, or God forbid buy a gun.

so where do you draw the line? they should have their rights reinstated if they only did 1 felony? or 3? or 12?.......

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: AlienCraftBlabbering

No comment...........................

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: ILikeStuff

Originally posted by: snooker
nor feel I should, leave to get back something I didn't even know was gone until I tried to buy a hunting rifle a year ago

If you didn't know this until a year ago when trying to purchase said firearm, you obviously didn't try to vote, otherwise you would have found this out long before 1 year ago. Be honest, this is about you owning a gun and not voting.

With that out of the way, I could understand the stance of not letting a known violent criminal own a gun, but saying "all felons" can't own guns is down right silly. I think you should be able to purchase a firearm.

I also think you should be allowed to vote.

Actually in the state of Florida they try to register you to vote whenever you visit the DMV, thus back in 1996 when I got my license renewed they asked me. I said yes, then they also asked if I had any prior convictions in any states (Apparently you can't move to Florida either as a convicted felon and get your rights back). I say yes in Florida and she says then you can't vote.


When I mentioned a year ago, I was speaking in general that I lost more rights then just Voting. Since that time last year, I have learned I can not work for the government, nor can I work for subcontractor doing work for the government (State or local) along with some other basic rights. By law I must disclose that I am a convicted felon before getting hired. That's the law, which is made to hurt the person forever.

I only mention firearms and voting because those are the 2 rights I have lost that are directly affecting me at this time. If I got the right to bear arms restored tomorrow, that doesn't mean I will go out and buy one right away and go commit a crime with it, I would never do anything that can harm another person using a firearm.


You make it sound like the first right I lost (Getting registered to vote 6 years ago) and tried to violate, whomever I came in contact with should have told me all the other rights I lost


I was also told back in 96 (when I called Tallahassee) that I could get my rights back in March 2003. It was only now (Like a week or so ago) that I realized I was not going to ever get my rights back (When I was reading the info on the application process)

 

[SuperTool]

Should have plea bargained for a misdemenor.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Pointless blathering by AlienCraft

Can't you comprehend anything? He did whatever he had to do to make restitution for his crime. There is no reason to keep paying for it. Where does it stop for you? Are you actually proposing that he can NEVER make a repayment for his crime, regardless of its nature? HE PAYED HIS DEBT. END OF STORY. I don't give a flying f*ck about your own experiences, because they simply don't matter. You have maid this incredibly long pointless post when you don't even have the slightest clue what he did!

And by stating that your point of view is skewed by your own personal experience, you have openly admitted that your position is driven by emotion rather than logical thought.

We as humans are driven by emotion. Logical thought is a prideful description we are barely qualified to lay claim to.
Your emotions show through when you deny the inclusion of others personal experiences (data) into your decision making process. IE... my mind is MADE up, don't confuse me with facts....
What I have MADE is an explanation for my own OPINION.
In the first response, we didn't have any clue as to the nature of the crime. Now we see that if he had implicated the other "GUILTY PARTIES" we wouldn't be having this discussion. His CHOICES and DECISIONS are now haunting him. This is where the true results of his actions come to him.
WE still don't know if he made restitution, said I'm sorry or really feels any remorse or contrition. <not synonyms,BTW.
I feel for him, as I was in a similar situation when I was just first year in college.
Thought I was doing a "solid" for my dorm mates... ended up ME being the only one punished (kicked out of the dorms) and they eventually turned their backs on me... Some friends...
I can empathize, but I do not SYMpathize.
The loss of rights as a convicted felon is part of the code. Don't like it? Get into politics and change them. or don't commit felonies, or deal when "Da Man" wants to deal. But don't whine about it when it starts to really hurt.
Dude, you should've given them up. The part that would eat at me is them being able to vote, hold public office, own guns while I hold the whole bag.
Not a good feeling , I'll admit.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: snooker

Originally posted by: AlienCraftBlabbering

No comment...........................

Should've made the deal, dude. I've been in your shoes, and I regret not giving up the others that were as guilty as I was.
After reading your update, I'm sure it seems harsh now, years later. I know my situation does. Youth seems to bring a sense of "that won't matter" to us. When we get older we find ourselves saying "I would NEVER...." Oy ..." Life, the tiny pill that packs a punch"....
I hope you've made a change of heart for real and aren't just rationalizing to yourself and to us , gratuitously.
Since it's a low grade felony, you might find another state may not transfer that Felony conviction, as it seems to be a property issue and not one of physical violence. Granted it's a PITA to move, but it may be an option.
Good luck. <for real, no sarcasm.

 

[LH]

I have learned I can not work for the government, nor can I work for subcontractor doing work for the government

Those arent basic or civil rights. Nor is owning a gun.

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: LH

I have learned I can not work for the government, nor can I work for subcontractor doing work for the government

Those arent basic or civil rights. Nor is owning a gun.

It is everybodies right to work for their own government, and least in my opinion it is.


As far as a gun goes. Apparently you have never read the U.S. Constitution anytime recent. Let me quote it:

=============================================================

Article [II.] (Second Amendment to the Unites States Constitution)

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

============================================================================================

If my rights are not being infringed upon I do not know what to call it


The firearms is a totally different issue then to vote, but they all have to do with the basic civil right given to every American (Born here or Naturalized). Heck there are Americans that was not even born in the United States that have more rights then myself, and I was born in the middle of the US (In Indiana) Go Figure.

 

[LH]

Your ideas of civil rights is warped towards the rest of the world.

One, working period, for your government or other wise is a privelage not a right.

Two, the second amendment allows the right to bare arms, however their are other constitutional(well have been deemed so) laws that state FELONS can not legally own guns. Hell much of the rest of the world guns are illegal for the avg person.

So Ill say it again working for or with the government is not a civil rights issue.

Nor are guns.

Voting laws do need to be changed to only barring those that have committed voter fraud, from voting.

However I feel no sympathy towards you. You knowingly committed fraud when you were 19, and had the chance to get the charge lowered. Talk about really stupid. More so than actually committing the crime.

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: LH
nonsense.

No comment..............

 

[Mustangrrl]

Unfortunately, all ex-felons have to be held to the same standard. I don't think there's one person here who would want a murderer to get out of prison, serve parole, and after having "paid" his debt be able to go out and buy firearms. In the name of "fairness," somebody usually gets a raw deal.
As a weird aside, I work for the government and just had 2 coworkers fired after their background checks came back with felony convictions on their records... but if they hadn't know about the convictions, they would have thought these two people were great employees. I personally wouldn't care if I were working alongside a convicted felon as long as the crime was nonsexual and nonviolent.
~robyn

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: LH

I have learned I can not work for the government, nor can I work for subcontractor doing work for the government

Those arent basic or civil rights. Nor is owning a gun.

Woah woah woah... Where do you get that idea? Irregardless of the felony discussion at hand, owning a gun IS a basic civil right. The 2nd amendment does not grant us the right to possess firearms. It gives us the protection from having that right removed. Do you see the differentiation? It seems to me that many people do not.

Anyway, convicted felons should be allowed to vote, especially in Florida. I mean, it's most likely that the vote wouldn't even get counted there anyway.

 

[Ly2n]

I am (was?) thinking about moving to Florida in the near future. However I was convicted of a felony DUI in New York state in 1987. My rights were restored in NY, and I vote every year. If I move to Florida, will I lose the right to vote? The answer to that question may decide where I live in the next few years. I will have to check with a lAWER BEFORE WE START LOOKING FOR A HOUSE.

 

[woodie1]

Originally posted by: Ly2n
I am (was?) thinking about moving to Florida in the near future. However I was convicted of a felony DUI in New York state in 1987. My rights were restored in NY, and I vote every year. If I move to Florida, will I lose the right to vote? The answer to that question may decide where I live in the next few years. I will have to check with a lAWER BEFORE WE START LOOKING FOR A HOUSE.

I think since NY restored your rights Florida would abide by their decision.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: snooker

Originally posted by: waggy
well in all honesty i dont belive you should have the right to get a firearm after commiting a felony.

but you should have the right to vote.

while i repsect you have changed your life after that you still commited a felony. It does fallow you around for the rest of your life. Maybe you should have thought of that before you commited it.

If I was a little older then 19 (And a little more mature) I wouldn't have done what I did. What makes my case odd is, My felony is classified a felony because of the $$$ involved. Florida's felony law puts anything above $300 a 3rd degree felony. (There are 3 degrees of felons, the 3rd degree felony being least) and wouldn't you know it, my charges was based on $319. $19 freaking dollars is hurting me for life!!!!!


As for not being allowed to own a firearm, I can own a bow and arrow set but not a 30-30 rifle? The bow is just as accurate as the 30-30 but far more deadly because it doesn't make any noise, sooo why am I allowed to have one of those but not a gun? Who knows. Maybe because someone 20 years ago decided it was ok.

again maybe you should have thought of this before you commited the felony. most of us managed to get through that age and NOT commite one.

though i agree whatever you did that caused damage of $300 should NOT be a felony. when you hear felony you think DUI, murder, rape etc (yes dui should be a felony). but that is life. you shouldnt do stuff htat can/will haunt you for the rest of your life.

but anyway get a bow. i hunt with one and enjoy it more then a rifle.

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: snooker

Originally posted by: waggy
well in all honesty i dont belive you should have the right to get a firearm after commiting a felony.

but you should have the right to vote.

while i repsect you have changed your life after that you still commited a felony. It does fallow you around for the rest of your life. Maybe you should have thought of that before you commited it.

If I was a little older then 19 (And a little more mature) I wouldn't have done what I did. What makes my case odd is, My felony is classified a felony because of the $$$ involved. Florida's felony law puts anything above $300 a 3rd degree felony. (There are 3 degrees of felons, the 3rd degree felony being least) and wouldn't you know it, my charges was based on $319. $19 freaking dollars is hurting me for life!!!!!


As for not being allowed to own a firearm, I can own a bow and arrow set but not a 30-30 rifle? The bow is just as accurate as the 30-30 but far more deadly because it doesn't make any noise, sooo why am I allowed to have one of those but not a gun? Who knows. Maybe because someone 20 years ago decided it was ok.

again maybe you should have thought of this before you commited the felony. most of us managed to get through that age and NOT commite one.

though i agree whatever you did that caused damage of $300 should NOT be a felony. when you hear felony you think DUI, murder, rape etc (yes dui should be a felony). but that is life. you shouldnt do stuff htat can/will haunt you for the rest of your life.

but anyway get a bow. i hunt with one and enjoy it more then a rifle.

Didn't you mean to say, many of you managed to NOT GET CAUGHT? I know alot of my teenaged friends back then was just as dumb and ignorant of laws as I was and did break alot of laws too (Alot worse) but just never got caught. Just think, You jump the back fence to a baseball stadium to watch the game without getting caught. Does that mean no crime was committed? Not at all, that just means noone saw you doing it



The moral to my story is, Do not misuse a gascard in the state of Florida. It will haunt you decades later.


I am honestly not real worried about the not being able to own a firearm. Like I said I have lived my entire 33 years with only trying to buy one once, and the great state I live it denied me that right. Sooo you see me owning a gun is not at the top of my list, but voting on the otherhand is on the top of my list. I already own a bow and hunt with it and am actually pretty good at it (Got 1 doe this year).

 

[rufruf44]

They need to draw more distinction between the type of felonies and grant rights accordingly. I have to admit that I would be very uncomfortable knowing someone is a convict. Call it discriminating, racist, etc, I just think the worst/negative way about them.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Ly2n
I am (was?) thinking about moving to Florida in the near future. However I was convicted of a felony DUI in New York state in 1987. My rights were restored in NY, and I vote every year. If I move to Florida, will I lose the right to vote? The answer to that question may decide where I live in the next few years. I will have to check with a lAWER BEFORE WE START LOOKING FOR A HOUSE.

I think someone else in this thread said the answer to your question was "yes, you'd lose the right"? I'm not sure, re-read the thread, it's in there somewhere.

 

[snooker]

Originally posted by: rufruf44
They need to draw more distinction between the type of felonies and grant rights accordingly. I have to admit that I would be very uncomfortable knowing someone is a convict. Call it discriminating, racist, etc, I just think the worst/negative way about them.

It sounds like you look towards all convicts the way I only look at child molesters, murderers, rapists, etc......



Simply being a convict does not mean the person is a bad person overall, just made some bad choices in the past. Not all but some.


Maybe some day you will get caught for something you did and did not realise how serious the government took it, until you're listed as a convicted felon, then and only then you will understand the position I am in.


I can understand voting rights being taken away while your under state Custody etc... even a 5 year wait or so after your done (As part of the punishment), but for Life?


If they let me vote, I would vote at the next elections I would be entitled to vote in!!!!!!






Also do something to the affect that if no Guns/weapons (remember your hands can be classified in court as weapons) of any kind was involved, then the right to bear arms should not be infringed upon (Except while in State Custody). I can see a timeframe after the person is all done with their punishment and rehabilitation to restore everything. (I think some call that Statute of Limitations?)


I thought the only thing in Florida that is not covered under the Statute of Limitations was Rape and Murder? Maybe I am wrong because I never read what is and is not covered, but I know there is such a thing..........