For all you Liberals

[LunarRay]

cad says
In his world, if you don't trust how I run the ship - find a different ship to scrub the deck of - no one is forcing you to work for me
*************

Well.... I suppose that would be ok .... btw.. keep your boat off of my water... scrub the deck yourself...Maybe we can't unionize the worker but, I'll unionize the purchaser... sail on...

 

[DealMonkey]

In this day and age, employers can't be trusted. There's no loyalty, ethics or integrity. We need someone watching out for the little guy. We need a mechanism to balance out the inequity of power.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
In this day and age, employers can't be trusted. There's no loyalty, ethics or integrity. We need someone watching out for the little guy. We need a mechanism to balance out the inequity of power.

Why? The worker has made himself helpless by relying on other people and the gov't to "save" them from the evil employer who feeds them and their family. Grow a set and tell the owner to shove it if you don't trust/like them.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
In this day and age, employers can't be trusted. There's no loyalty, ethics or integrity. We need someone watching out for the little guy. We need a mechanism to balance out the inequity of power.

I've a lot of experience in the board rooms where the "little guy" or even the big guy "the talent" are nothing more that a commodity that get squeezed into some other substance... (metaphorically) The labor force is just (for the most part) an element of direct cost and nothing more... they are like the material and the conversion cost that turn a bit of this into a sale-able item...
Even today, in a much small company the issue is the same. Unless the talent possessed by the worker is not easily found... in this case he becomes a valuable asset... unless another valuable asset happens by at a lower price.. then all bets are off..

 

[freegeeks]

there are really some crazy mofo's in here that want to kick us back into the 19th century

 

[Siddhartha]

I do not care where I fit in the ATP&N political spectrum.

I do think that government should be for everybody not just for my friends, relatives and people who look like me.

Also it bothers me when my tax money benefit the wealthy more than people who need help.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Also it bothers me when my tax money benefit the wealthy more than people who need help.

Right..

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Because without all the stuff you get from the taxes you pay, the overall economy would be much smaller and less productive and average wages would be commensurately smaller.

What?? What exactly to I get from all the taxes that I pay??? Better yet, what does taxing me to death do for the economy?

I tend to think that if I didn't have an approximate 60% tax burden on me, I'd have a lot of extra money to put straight into the economy. IMO, that would be a far bigger boost than the government taking the money from me.

First, I find it hard to believe you have a 60% tax burden..

Second, whatever money you pay in taxes, goes into the economy in one way or another, and the vast majority of it is used to increase productivity of the society as a whole, which is the only way to actually increase the wealth of everyone, whether it comes from government spending or private spending.

Third, if you want to know what your income would be, take a look at Iraq, Ethopia, Liberia, for an idea of the kind of country you would live in with an inadequate infrastructure, uneducated people, no healthcare system, unsafe food products, no prisons, no court system, no disaster assistance, no banks, no monetary system, no fire dept, no police, no military, no road repair, and a thousand other things that increase productivity.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
In this day and age, employers can't be trusted. There's no loyalty, ethics or integrity. We need someone watching out for the little guy. We need a mechanism to balance out the inequity of power.

Why? The worker has made himself helpless by relying on other people and the gov't to "save" them from the evil employer who feeds them and their family. Grow a set and tell the owner to shove it if you don't trust/like them.

CkG

Employers don't feed employees, employees do the work and part of the productivity of the employees feeds the employer.

It's employers that are helpless without workers. Not the other way around.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
there are really some crazy mofo's in here that want to kick us back into the 19th century

I will provide the theme from "The Molly Maguires" lest some forget the greed of the owner toward the nothingness of the worker... Even today... IF an employer can get away with "IT" they will try... and then brag about how they "won". The merit badge awarded the eagle scout of business has the sweat of the worker under the foot of the bank book...

 

[Moonbeam]

People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

 

[LunarRay]

Therapists abound with folks hoping to rid the monkey from their back... knowing it is there is a good first step... wanting to know if it is there requires a major twist in the way we see or a deep look in the mirror... No one wants to see their greed as bad so... see it as good and those who have less than you are less good ...

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

boy are you playing to the democrat=glass half empty stereotype. i wish that someday you wakeup from the fog you are in and see the world for how it really is.

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
In this day and age, employers can't be trusted. There's no loyalty, ethics or integrity. We need someone watching out for the little guy. We need a mechanism to balance out the inequity of power.

Why? The worker has made himself helpless by relying on other people and the gov't to "save" them from the evil employer who feeds them and their family. Grow a set and tell the owner to shove it if you don't trust/like them.

CkG

Employers don't feed employees, employees do the work and part of the productivity of the employees feeds the employer.

It's employers that are helpless without workers. Not the other way around.

the flaw with your reasoning is employees are often replaceable while employers are not. that is why ppl fear getting fired and fear their company moving their doors out of the country.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

boy are you playing to the democrat=glass half empty stereotype. i wish that someday you wakeup from the fog you are in and see the world for how it really is.

I don't see the correlation between what you said and what you referenced... ?

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: BigJelly
My basis for being a conservative is that the democrates message is the hard working are forced to care for the lazy.

If that is all there is to it then I would be conservative. And so would most people.

But tell me, why is the enviroment a liberal cause?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
In this day and age, employers can't be trusted. There's no loyalty, ethics or integrity. We need someone watching out for the little guy. We need a mechanism to balance out the inequity of power.

Why? The worker has made himself helpless by relying on other people and the gov't to "save" them from the evil employer who feeds them and their family. Grow a set and tell the owner to shove it if you don't trust/like them.

CkG

Employers don't feed employees, employees do the work and part of the productivity of the employees feeds the employer.

It's employers that are helpless without workers. Not the other way around.

the flaw with your reasoning is employees are often replaceable while employers are not. that is why ppl fear getting fired and fear their company moving their doors out of the country.

It's not his fault He doesn't understand what real work is. If people leave because they don't like/trust the employer -the employer will eventually have to change what the people don't like/trust or they will be without a work force. Employers do feed families. If you want to feed your family you get a job(or live off the land) hence you WORK for an employer who pays you for work done. If you feel you deserve more for the work you do - you either consult your employer to ask/demand more or you leave and get a job where you feel you are paid enough for your efforts. There are bad employers -this I know, but there are also worthless employees - usually protected by Unions. If you really are good enough at your job to earn the wage your union negotiates for you, then you should easily be able to find a different company willing to pay for your expertise if you don't like/trust your current one.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Unions are not bad things. They are essential in many cases. I've been part of a union and have dealt with unions as part of management. I enjoy dealing with unions when they are fair in their demands and when they are not I've always been able to argue the reality that I saw to a reasonable conclusion. The odd hanger on is no pet of other union members... they seek fair pay for fair work. To this I agree.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

boy are you playing to the democrat=glass half empty stereotype. i wish that someday you wakeup from the fog you are in and see the world for how it really is.

What, half full? If you're going to use all them words you might as well say something while you're at it.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Unions are not bad things. They are essential in many cases. I've been part of a union and have dealt with unions as part of management. I enjoy dealing with unions when they are fair in their demands and when they are not I've always been able to argue the reality that I saw to a reasonable conclusion. The odd hanger on is no pet of other union members... they seek fair pay for fair work. To this I agree.

I'm not saying all unions are bad - but the ones I work with all day everyday can be. I'd take an apprentise electrician that has motivation and a willingness to learn over the average union electrician anyday. I worked on a project that had a non-union electrician outfit doing the install and they worked great. Stayed till the job was done and done right. Can't say I've ever had that happen when a union was involved. Maybe it's just electricians though.

CkG

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

boy are you playing to the democrat=glass half empty stereotype. i wish that someday you wakeup from the fog you are in and see the world for how it really is.

What, half full? If you're going to use all them words you might as well say something while you're at it.

Buahahahahaha! Classic.

Thanks for the chuckle Moony.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Unions are not bad things. They are essential in many cases. I've been part of a union and have dealt with unions as part of management. I enjoy dealing with unions when they are fair in their demands and when they are not I've always been able to argue the reality that I saw to a reasonable conclusion. The odd hanger on is no pet of other union members... they seek fair pay for fair work. To this I agree.

I'm not saying all unions are bad - but the ones I work with all day everyday can be. I'd take an apprentise electrician that has motivation and a willingness to learn over the average union electrician anyday. I worked on a project that had a non-union electrician outfit doing the install and they worked great. Stayed till the job was done and done right. Can't say I've ever had that happen when a union was involved. Maybe it's just electricians though.

CkG

I'm speaking big picture. The contract issues. The P&L of the company etc. When I was a letter carrier and in grad school I was shop steward.. and little picture.. We didn't want more route loaded on us than was fair... fair for me might have been double my route given that I had time to "run the route" and hours to study... but, this was over 30 years ago and since then management have whittled away the slack and have loaded down the carrier to the point that I'd not be able to run the route in the time alloted when I was young.. so I guess the union was not totaly in control and the worker is paid to do what used to be about 12 hours work in 8..

 

[josphII]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

boy are you playing to the democrat=glass half empty stereotype. i wish that someday you wakeup from the fog you are in and see the world for how it really is.

What, half full? If you're going to use all them words you might as well say something while you're at it.

Buahahahahaha! Classic.

Thanks for the chuckle Moony.

CkG

do you have to be a democrat to get this joke because i sure as heck dont get it

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: josphII

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
People hate themselves and don't know it. They don't know they don't know and they don't want to know they don't want to know. All you have to do, therefore, to understand life, is to ask the question, what have we substituted for self respect. In our society one of the obvious sources of substitute self worth is money. If you have money you are a somebody and if something threatens your money, like extinction, you ignore it because people would rather die than know how bad they feel. They will get their wish, because we actualize our fears. This is how the unconscious works. If you will not face your traumatic past consciously, you will fact it indirectly by how you unconsciously st@b yourself as you create the circumstances of your life. We self actualize our worst fears.

boy are you playing to the democrat=glass half empty stereotype. i wish that someday you wakeup from the fog you are in and see the world for how it really is.

What, half full? If you're going to use all them words you might as well say something while you're at it.

Buahahahahaha! Classic.

Thanks for the chuckle Moony.

CkG

do you have to be a democrat to get this joke because i sure as heck dont get it

How does the comment correlate with the statement referenced? Half full ... democrat... stereotype... fog.. seems the context is about a different reality.. at least to me.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Unions are not bad things. They are essential in many cases. I've been part of a union and have dealt with unions as part of management. I enjoy dealing with unions when they are fair in their demands and when they are not I've always been able to argue the reality that I saw to a reasonable conclusion. The odd hanger on is no pet of other union members... they seek fair pay for fair work. To this I agree.

I'm not saying all unions are bad - but the ones I work with all day everyday can be. I'd take an apprentise electrician that has motivation and a willingness to learn over the average union electrician anyday. I worked on a project that had a non-union electrician outfit doing the install and they worked great. Stayed till the job was done and done right. Can't say I've ever had that happen when a union was involved. Maybe it's just electricians though.

CkG

I'm speaking big picture. The contract issues. The P&L of the company etc. When I was a letter carrier and in grad school I was shop steward.. and little picture.. We didn't want more route loaded on us than was fair... fair for me might have been double my route given that I had time to "run the route" and hours to study... but, this was over 30 years ago and since then management have whittled away the slack and have loaded down the carrier to the point that I'd not be able to run the route in the time alloted when I was young.. so I guess the union was not totaly in control and the worker is paid to do what used to be about 12 hours work in 8..

I could maybe agree with unions if thats what they did - protect workers from being overworked by "evil" corporations- but they have lost sight of that IMO. Now it's about taking individual worker rights and putting them in a pool, instead of letting them stand up on their own merit. I will NEVER join a union if I can help it unless they change the way they operate. I think my work more than stands on it's own - and I will leave a company if I feel that I am getting shafted by them - I don't need a union to protect me.

josphII - The "funny" I got a chuckle out of what that moony said "If you're going to use all them words you might as well say something" - now if that isn't a pot-kettle-black scenario then nothing is.

CkG