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Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0
Jarhead

>Those guidance systems are *NOT* designed by the Air Force. They recieve extensive training to teach them how to operate and maintain the equipment designed and developed by civilians employed by Defense Contractors (companies ran by civilian companies like Grumman-Northrup, Lockheed, Boeing, Raytheon, and the like. Occassionally, a university will develop a idea, and one of these companies will build it.<

I am quite sure that you are correct.
I was only trying enforce the &quot;co-operation&quot; theme that ArmyInfantry mentioned.
I don't think that any one Service Branch has single-handedly won a war for the US since 1776.
I was honorably discharged in 1967, and may have lost touch with some of the finer details since then.

(Grumman used to be really big around here - are they still around where you are?)







 

Jarhead

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
550
0
0
OutlawWolf

I proudly served for 12 years with the U.S. Marines.

Cyberian

Grumman missed a few cycles on the bids for future
fighters, you and I know their aircraft are some
of the best built equipment, I've seen some of their
aircraft come back that should, by all rights, fallen out
of the sky.

Luckily, Northrop Grumman Corp., is the sub-contractor
to Boeing for the airframe of the F/A-18 E/F, so they
are getting some crumbs to keep the company afloat, but
they are not the prime contractor for the program. Same
with the Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter.

I worked with some of the Grumman aircraft, the A-6E TRAM,
EA-6A, EA-6B Prowler, in fact, triple nuts, commissioned in
1962 was still flying with VMAQ-4 in 1990. It is retired now.

The company has really downsized since their heyday. Sad.
 

Cyberian

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2000
9,999
1
0

But its like sitting on the bench during the fourth quarter. You may be suited up, but you ain't playing football.

Unfortunately, wars don't come neatly packaged into 4 quarters with Eminem performing at halftime.
When the doo-doo hits the fan in Somalia, or some other place halfway around the globe, you can thank the 'bench-sitters' that are already fully trained

I would obviously be wasting my breath here discussing:
WW I
WW II
Korea
Viet Nam
Kuwait

Please enjoy your Deal-Hunting - brought to you by 225 years of service by your Military.
 

mikeinfwa

Member
Apr 27, 2000
76
0
0
I guess I'll speak up for the benefits of the Air Force. I was fortunate enough to become commissioned through AFROTC. Spent 6 years on active duty. 1 year as a student pilot the other 5 as an Instructor Pilot. The work days were long and hard (student pilots trying to kill you) but the reward was worth it.(students graduating and getting their wings).

During the downsizing of the military I decided to leave the Air Force after my 6 year commitment was over. (this has been raised to 10 years for current Air Force pilots) I then applied to American Airlines. I was hired and started training with American 6 weeks after leaving the Air Force. I've been with them for 9 years now.

I also joined the Air Force Reserve and flew for them for 7 years. I spent an average of 6-7 days a month flying for the reserves. There is no such thing as a weekend warrior for a reserve or guard pilot. We have too many flying requirements to fly just 1 weekend a month. I spent many nights and days away from my wife and kids as a reserve pilot. (I was single during active duty.)
I was called up for 3 months active duty during the &quot;Lewinsky&quot; bombing campaign. Also known as the Kosovo. Spent summer of '99 flying over Albania, Adriatic Sea, Bosnia, Macedonia.

I have traveled all over the world. I've walked on the beaches of Normandy. I've placed flowers at the U.S. Military Cemetary above Omaha Beach. I've been inside the pyramids of Giza(cairo). I've been to the USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor. I've been to Kunsan and Kadena. I've seen the leaning tower of pisa. I've walked on old WW2 Army airfields in England. I've been to about 40 out of the 50 States in America.

That said, I have nothing but the highest respect for the men and women in all branches of the military who serve our country. The mission of the Armed Forces cannot I believe be matched to the business world. It does take a &quot;different breed&quot; or what ever you want to call it for a person to join the military.





Here's a typed dialogue of a comic strip I ran across at a weather shop one night.

First frame: A private is sitting in his foxhole getting rained on. Caption says: &quot;This sucks&quot;

2nd frame: A Ranger is running through woods getting rained on. Caption says: &quot;I wish it could suck some more&quot;

3rd frame: A chopper pilot is flying in the rain over the grunts: Caption says: &quot;Boy, sure sucks down there&quot;

Last frame: An Air Force Pilot is sitting in his hotel room. Through the window you see rain and MacDonalds arches. He's channel surfing with th TV remote. Caption says:
&quot;WHAT? NO CABLE, THIS SUCKS!&quot;
 

ArmyInfantry

Member
Jan 24, 2001
135
0
0
Jarhead, why do you insist on insulting my branch of service? I serve my country and risk my life to protect its freedom just like you. I'm sure my brothers in arm that stormed the beaches on D-Day would not appreciate your views. Don't you understand that all the branches serve one purpose and that is to protect the freedom of this country and to ensure peace throughout the world? Without one branch the others would fail at their respective duties. When you insult my branch and our duties I feel you blacken the names of those men that died performing their duties. I respect you guys and I believe we deserve the same respect.
 

ArmyInfantry

Member
Jan 24, 2001
135
0
0
Oh yes, if you wish to talk about heroic deeds I can tell you about the hundreds of Army men that were awarded the CMedal of Honor for their deeds above and beyond the call of duty.
 

Jarhead

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
550
0
0
ArmyInfantry

>Jarhead, why do you insist on insulting my branch of service? I serve my
>country and risk my life to protect its freedom just like you. I'm sure my
>brothers in arm that stormed the beaches on D-Day would not appreciate your
>views. Don't you understand that all the branches serve one purpose and that
>is to protect the freedom of this country and to ensure peace throughout the
>world? Without one branch the others would fail at their respective duties.
>When you insult my branch and our duties I feel you blacken the names of
>those men that died performing their duties. I respect you guys and I believe
>we deserve the same respect.

Oh, you do get my respect. Sorry if you feel slighted by me.
There are good men in every branch of the military, and many
have died to protect our freedoms. I do not have *any* respect
for Army recruiters!

The Army un-matched when it comes to large scale campaigns and
serving as a occupying force.
The Navy has no equal upon or under the seven seas.
The Air Force controls the sky through utilizing and operating
the best technology our Nation has to offer.

At least at the present time, but the last President did
more to destroy the core of our military than any other
President in American history. The wounds inflicted will
last for decades. I just hope they heal before a real
conflict arises.


 

ArmyInfantry

Member
Jan 24, 2001
135
0
0
I agree, it is sad how muc ha person is willing to sink to just to get one more into the door. I've known people that had asthma, previous medical conditions and other cases that trained with me in Basic. Their recruiter told them they were going to be fine and looked the other way. 80% of these people ended up hurts or getting injuried because of their previous exsisting medical conditions. Not all recruiters are bad though. The Marine Corp recruiter I meet was highly professional and did not try get me to switch branches because I was already signed on with the Army...that same day when I was walking out of the recruiting statuib an Army Reserve sergeant stops me and tells me all the great things I can get with the Reserves, even after I told them I was enlisted in another branch of the Army. He would go on to give me his bus card and tell me to call him. People like that are just plain bad for the military. All recruiters tell you about fairy tales of good food, lots of food, playing with weapons, and other hooah (hoo-rah for you marine corp guys) stuff only to have you realize all that he/she claimed is not true...but I guess if you expect basic to be a cake walk then you've gotta be a dummy in the first place. Anyways, I'm done with my little rant on recruitors. OH yeah, if you DO decide to enlist make sure you get EVERY benefit and promise in writing cause they are known to go back on verbal agreements.
 

Jarhead

Senior member
Oct 29, 1999
550
0
0
OH yeah, if you DO decide to enlist make sure you get EVERY benefit and promise in writing cause they are known to go back on verbal agreements.

Any verbal agreement has zero weight and you will not get it, the
*majority* of the time. Only what is written on the paper, or
what the military can remotely construe out of what is on the
paper, for their benefit, holds any weight whatsoever.

However I had a good experience regarding this. I was in school,
just graduated as the top honor student, and got a meritorious
promotion, when I found out what a 6336 actually does in the Corps.
Aviation Electrician on a C-130, and I had the option for aircrew,
if I could qualify. Nothing like what my recruiter had told me,
it wasn't his fault, he was Motor-T, and it said airplanes and
electronic/electrical mumbo jumbo, he figured that is what I wanted.
(I thought I was joining to repair the guts of the Avionics).
After speaking with a few senior enlisted, they would have liked
to change my contract (being a gung-ho type), but they were powerless
to change the contract and had to hold to it. Little did I know,
while I was on three weeks barracks support, waiting for the Navy
Avaitation Electrician school, an old Master Gunnery Sergeant was
looking out for his young Marines, like they typically do.

One day, I was busy scrubbing shower walls with beach at the gym.
A runner comes in and tells me to report to the base SgtMaj.
I'm thinking, oh crap, what did I do wrong. I hauled *ss over
there scared *hitless. I reported in, and his SSgt said here is
your new contract. I'm pretty darn confused at this point.
The SgtMaj., watching all of this, decides to speak. He tells
me that the MGySgt had contacted the General of the 2nd MAW,
who contacted HQMC, and then clear back down the chain of
command, they were instructed to give me any MOS that I wanted,
right then and there. I chose 6445, A-6E Intruder Flight/Navagation
Systems, Intermediate/limited Depot SACE Technician. And that is
what I got, what I was trained for, and where I was put. Due to
the simularities, I also went to school for Depot level repair
on the APS-133(V3) RADAR system at Allied Bendix Aerospace (C-130/EA-6A
stuff) and an associated systems training at Teledyne Ryan. Later
our MOS was consolidated with the EA-6B community, and
in the process I picked up Inertial Navagation, RADAR,
Communications, Weapons Systems and Electronic Countermeasures.
Even later, I picked up 6484, when the A-6E aircraft were decommissioned,
and worked on the same stuff. For those of you who don't know,
the Intermediate and Depot levels would be where the equipment is
pulled from an Aircraft and sent to another facility for repair.
Depot would be where you either repair the item, or where if
it cannot be repaired, it is sold as scrap.

Oh, and in the Marine Corps, even though we all hold MOSes that
are not grunts, we all are trained as basic infantrymen (it used
to be riflemen, the bar was raised a little higher). I can hit
a smaller than man sized target, without a scope, using a M16A2,
from 500 meters, 10 out of 10 times, without thinking much of it.
This was done annually, along with the 30 mile qualification hump,
NBC training, and so on.

During the Iraq war, I was quite glad for this training, and for
the fact that we had to carry gas masks, atropine shots, decon kits,
first aid kits, our weapons, and our ammo, at all times. I really
felt sorry for the Air Force guys when we stopped at Bahrain, here
they are, a prime target for a terrorist action, with nothing to
defend themselves, or the training to be effective or even survive
in such an action.

So in my case, the Marine Corps went the extra mile, above and
beyond what they were required to do. It was not their fault
that my recruiter was not familiar with the MOS. They did not
have to change the contract, nor were they even allowed to bend
it a little. But they took care of me, through the chain of
command, and gave me a new contract to do what I wanted to do.

You cannot ask for more than that. I had so much fun that I
hung around for 12 years, before launching a successful career
that has taken advantage of my experience/training in the Corps,
without a degree (although, I do have more classroom time than
you'd have to get a Electrical Engineering B.S. degree.- over a
third of my time in the Corps was spent in classroom training.)

www.cconnect.net/users/leeeper
 
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