Free Vegetarian Starter Pack

[CPA]

<< If everyone was vegetarian, reserves would probably be established for the descendents of today's livestock, a sort of "reparation" for their ancestors' "enslavement," if you will.

Better minds than mine can probably think of an approach that is more appropriate. >>



I'm sorry, but I had to laugh at this. Not that I think you espouse what you write, but you point out exactly the kind of mentality that makes me roll my eyes and wonder what's next.

And Justincase, while stranger things have happened, I don't think I could ever invision a mass exodus from meat. Too imbedded in our environment. Plus I can't stand brussel sprouts, cabbage, and many other vegetables. I force down broccoli and too much fruit can have as bad an effect on your body as too much meat.

 

[Sanjoelo]

Sorry, but I'll pass. I'm a carnivore--personally, I'm of a mind that we need complex proteins for a sound body. Veggies are great, too. What our bodies cannot tolerate is excess dairy, and definitely not the refined sugars and grains we Americans have been mass-marketed into eating. It's the stuff around the edge of the grocery store that's good for you..the crap in the middle is what kills.

If you read one book in your life, check out "Sugar Blues" by William Dufty. You can snag it for cheap, and it's an eye-opening read. Refined sugars, "polished" white rice, processed grains... all antinutrients that do your body more harm than anything else. Legal poison. While I agree that veggies are great food, we need more than that to live properly. You need fats and proteins. It's the junk carbs you need to lose. Don't believe it? Read the book, dump the sugars, and see what happens.

-JB

 

[astrochimp]

For ALL those who don't eat me cuz it's cruel to cows..
I just read a science magazine...don't remember the name but can find out....
And they did an article on what is made from cow parts and You WOULD NOT BELIEVE how many things have some sort of cow part in it.
You CANNOT go through a day without coming in contact with something made from a cow part.

Just some extra info

 

[Justincase]

>>>And Justincase, while stranger things have happened, I don't think I could ever invision a mass exodus from meat.<<<

k. We'll revisit the subject in a couple of years. :Q

I couldn't envision myself being a non-meat-eater either, 12 years ago...at that point I had wanted to be, but I just couldn't imagine being well-fed/nourished without meat in my diet. At the time, I was eating 16 ounce steaks for breakfast, hot dogs for lunch, and burgers for dinner. These days, it might be Steelhead fillet with portobello mushrooms, chicken-y tofu and boca burgers or a (meatless) seitan gyro in a typical day...I still love the mouth-feel of meaty foods, but I don't miss meat in the least, and wouldn't go back to eating meat.


>>>Plus I can't stand brussel sprouts, cabbage, and many other vegetables.<<<

Me neither...I never eat those. 'Vegetarian' doesn't mean one that eats vegetables...it means "eating to enliven." You can literally make 3 different vegetarian meals every day for 15 years, and never eat the same meal twice - there is just such a huge variety of food available aside from meat.

 

[datagirl7]

Anyone know why they cut the chickens beaks off? Fromt he Meet your Meet video

 

[Justincase]

>>>For ALL those who don't eat me cuz it's cruel to cows..
I just read a science magazine...don't remember the name but can find out....
And they did an article on what is made from cow parts and You WOULD NOT BELIEVE how many things have some sort of cow part in it.<<<

I would...I have a New York Times article from years ago that shows a diagram of a cow, and what each part is used for, and how much it costs...from kidney to spleen to liver, there is really NO part of the animal that isn't used for profit in one way or another. I also have a full-page ad from The NY Times, from at least 15 years ago, that is headlined: "How To Win An Argument With A Meat-Eater"...I think the subtitle was: How To Outrun Him, Outsmart Him, and Outlive Him. If I remember correctly, it shows a dinosaur with a bib and fork and goes into the hundreds of statistics of how wasteful and downright silly the raising of meat is, environmental impact, health impact, etc. I need to scan that and get it on the Web one of these days. The ad then went on to discuss Dave Scott, who won the Ironman Triathlon 6 TIMES, and of course, Dave is a vegan.

Coooool...was about to finish this message off, and I went to Google and found the above on the Web :Q

How To Win An Argument With A Meat Eater

 

[chumbucket666]

Hey Tek Demon, don't kid yourself into thinking that fish or chicken is any healthier for you than other meat. They've all got cholesterol and saturated fat in them. Fish can easily be more fatty than a lean piece of beef or pork. And to all who think that Morningstar farms and the other grocery store "veggie" foods are good for you read the ingredient list. It's a litany of processing chemicals and most of that crap has eggs in it too. I know a lot of "vegetarians" who eat foods with hydrogenated vegetable oils and MSG in them also which are worse than animal products.


CB666

 

[Justincase]

>>>Anyone know why they cut the chickens beaks off? Fromt he Meet your Meet video <<<

I haven't watched the video, and I don't know, but I'll take a guess:

1) To keep the chickens from eating the feces of other chickens ...?

2) To keep them from pecking at other chickens, or themselves ...?

It was probably over 10 years ago that I saw the 60 Minutes piece on chickens, and the answer was in that footage.

BTW, whoever it was that stated that chicken and fish are healthy alternatives to beef...I only agree with 1/2 of that. Fish certainly DOES have health benefits, but chickens are highly diseased animals that eat anything, including what I mentioned above. I believe that even the government admits that upwards of 75% of chickens in the U.S. are contaminated, diseased animals, and our government always underestimates these things.

 

[bluemax]

<< While I agree that veggies are great food, we need more than that to live properly. You need fats and proteins. >>


No way. There's tons of protien to be had in the plant world Just so you don't think this is my personal opinion, here's a link and quote from it.


<< Don't vegetarians have difficulty getting enough protein?

In the United States, our problem is too much protein, not too little. Most Americans get about seven times as much protein as they need. You can get plenty of protein from whole wheat bread, oatmeal, beans, corn, peas--even mushrooms or broccoli. Almost every food contains protein. Unless you eat a great deal of junk food, it's almost impossible to eat as many calories as you need for good health without getting enough protein.

By contrast, too much protein is the major cause of osteoporosis and contributes to kidney failure and other diseases of affluence. >>


From the link mentioned earlier.

 

[Fritzo]

OK people....if God didn't intend on us to eat animals, then WHY DID HE MAKE THEM OUT OF MEAT????

Answer me THAT one!

 

[bluemax]

You're made of meat as well - should we eat you?

 

[Justincase]

I got dibs on his brain...love that humor :Q

Oh, and to answer Fritzo's question: I believe we were meant to be stewards of these animals, not to consume them.

 

[gsaldivar]

PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals

 

[BlueHeelers]

My wife and I have cattle and our families have for generations and I have been to many seminars and workshops on cattle. I have been to feedyards. I have seen cattle harvested and processed. I currently work for an ag technology company. Beef cattle is a very important part of my life and a part I know a lot about.

Almost all of the problems found in the PETA video can and are being corrected with management. The video focuses on actions of a few outliers and does not represent many ranchers. If a rancher dehorns his calves young its easier on them, if a rancher sells a cow at the first sign of cancer eye its easier on it, if a rancher looks at alternative identification options its easier on the cattle. Bottom line is that management is the key. Currently, there is a big move right now on BQA "Beef Quality Assurance" throughout the country to ensure that ranchers have the information to manage their cattle properly.

A few things I saw in the video:
1) Dehorning of the animal is similar to trimming fingernails and there is not much living tissue in that area. If this is done properly, no long term harm or pain is caused to the animal. Cattle are dehorned to... keep them from hurting each other in the feedyard, causing bruises

2) Branding - yup, i bet it hurts. May ranchers will use ear tags, tattoos, and electronic ids for identification. A producer with an animal that is heavily branded gets less for his/her animal. Who wants a Cadillac seat with someone's cattle brand?

3) Cancer eye (the animal with the infected face/head) - this is a problem and if managed properly never gets to that point. There is no risk to the consumer in a situation such as this because the entire head is condemmed and never enters the food chain. This is no different than a vegetable with a fungus or infection being thrown out.

If anyone has any questions or comments on this post, I encourage you to leave me a private message or post here.

Thanks

REL

 

[jamison]

Not crapping on the thread or anything, just pointing out a fact.




<< I figured I would toss this out there to all of you people considering more natural eating lifestyles. >>



Humans are omnivores, meaning we naturally eat meat and plant substance. So being a vegetarian, is not a more natural eating lifestyle, unless you consider the human race herbivores, which is scientifically false.

 

[zeruty]

<< OK people....if God didn't intend on us to eat animals, then WHY DID HE MAKE THEM OUT OF MEAT????

Answer me THAT one! >>



Dasm straight!!

Also, if vegetarians like animals so much, how come they eat all their food? :disgust:



<< You're made of meat as well - should we eat you? >>



Well, if i was unprotected and in the presence of a lion or tiger or bear (oh my!) I probably WOULD be eaten.
All of you people arguing that humans aren't in the food chain.. I can be eaten, therefore I am in the food chain. just because we can cheat and protect ourselves most of the time, doesnt mean we are not in the food chain

 

[Sanjoelo]

<<

<< While I agree that veggies are great food, we need more than that to live properly. You need fats and proteins. >>


No way. There's tons of protien to be had in the plant world Just so you don't think this is my personal opinion, here's a link and quote from it.


<< Don't vegetarians have difficulty getting enough protein?

In the United States, our problem is too much protein, not too little. Most Americans get about seven times as much protein as they need. You can get plenty of protein from whole wheat bread, oatmeal, beans, corn, peas--even mushrooms or broccoli. Almost every food contains protein. Unless you eat a great deal of junk food, it's almost impossible to eat as many calories as you need for good health without getting enough protein.

By contrast, too much protein is the major cause of osteoporosis and contributes to kidney failure and other diseases of affluence. >>


From the link mentioned earlier. >>




Bah... sugars cause all of the above. There is a difference between animal proteins and those of vegetables, incidentally. I could link to a thousand different articles detailing the wonders of a low fat, high carb diet, too--but the fact that someone wrote an article doesn't make it correct. America has continually gotten fatter and less healthy despite the popularity of the lowfat diet, and adherance to the FDA's "food pyramid" lies. The sugar producers have the AMA in their hip pocket.

As someone has already stated, we are omnivorous creatures. Veggies, meats, and very limited fruits are what keep us lean and healthy.

 

[huesmann]

<< Tigers and lions kill there prey in seconds. >>


Actually, they don't. What they generally do is hamstring the critters so they can't get away, then they just gnaw them to death; essentially tha critter bleeds to death.

 

[Fenguin]

I've been vegetarian for almost 2 years now, and I don't see myself stopping. I think meat tastes great, and I do feel the urge for a burger when I drive past a Jack in the Box, but I'm much more content living as a veggie. It's not so much that I feel I'm making the world a better place, but at least I feel that I'm not making it that much worse.

Also, it keeps my lazy ass from getting fat, and possibly prostate cancer later on. Unfortunately it doesn't come with too much built-in 'cool factor' these days, as all the hip kids are just going full-blown vegan.

 

[7pants]

I've got a chick I'm tryin to bone who's a vegetarian. I took her to dinner and ate a pound of prime rib. Goddamnit I have class in like 5 hours you chumps. Well I'm making it my personal mission to eat as many animals as I can during my lifetime. Why? Have you noticed that almost all vegetarians you meet are damn hippies? I hate hippies, so I eat animals to spite them. It's not like a cow is going to do anything with the rest of its life, anyway, so who cares if I kill it. When cows start building video cards I'll stop eating them.

 

[Holycrap]

I'm glad to see this thread here . . I've been vegan for 15 years or so, and for all the vegetarians I'll offer that any reason you have for being vegetarian (personal health, environmental concerns, ethical issues) applies equally well to being vegan . . .

Here's an interesting look at some physical traits of carnivores compared to herbivores - and humans fit all the traits of the herbivores:

Carnivore:

Sharp teeth, unable to grind with jaw
No ptyalin
Short intestinal tract
Large liver
Smooth colon
No pores

Herbivore:

Grinding teeth, jaw able to move in more than on direction
Ptyalin in saliva
Very long intestinal tract
Small liver
Convoluted colon
Millions of pores

 

[CPA]

<< >>>And Justincase, while stranger things have happened, I don't think I could ever invision a mass exodus from meat.<<<

k. We'll revisit the subject in a couple of years. :Q

I couldn't envision myself being a non-meat-eater either, 12 years ago...at that point I had wanted to be, but I just couldn't imagine being well-fed/nourished without meat in my diet. At the time, I was eating 16 ounce steaks for breakfast, hot dogs for lunch, and burgers for dinner. These days, it might be Steelhead fillet with portobello mushrooms, chicken-y tofu and boca burgers or a (meatless) seitan gyro in a typical day...I still love the mouth-feel of meaty foods, but I don't miss meat in the least, and wouldn't go back to eating meat.


>>>Plus I can't stand brussel sprouts, cabbage, and many other vegetables.<<<

Me neither...I never eat those. 'Vegetarian' doesn't mean one that eats vegetables...it means "eating to enliven." You can literally make 3 different vegetarian meals every day for 15 years, and never eat the same meal twice - there is just such a huge variety of food available aside from meat. >>




Justincase,

Just curious, but do you know something the rest of us don't. You seem to be implying that there will be this huge 180 degree change in people's minds regarding meat. What gives? Why are you so sure?


BTW, I do not eat steak for breakfast, in fact I eat it rarely, and I almost never touch hotdogs or sausage. But I do like lean hamburgers, bacon, eat chicken daily and fish 3 to 4 times a week. And for those that think the type of food leads to leanness and other benficial factors to healthy living, I counter with it's the frequency and calorie consumption, not just the type that leads to healthy living.

 

[Borg20001]

Vegans?!? - ahh yes, Species 17230, Alpha Quadrant

I myself used to be a Rigelian before Assimilation..... sorry to thread crap on an otherwise interesting thread... but when the term Vegan emerged, all my sci fi exposure had long associated that term with beings from the star system of Vega... oh well, back to the real discussion.....

 

[Justincase]

>>>Just curious, but do you know something the rest of us don't. You seem to be implying that there will be this huge 180 degree change in people's minds regarding meat.<<<

I believe there will be a major change in the production/availability of meat in the future.


>>>I do like lean hamburgers, bacon, eat chicken daily and fish 3 to 4 times a week. And for those that think the type of food leads to leanness and other benficial factors to healthy living, I counter with it's the frequency and calorie consumption, not just the type that leads to healthy living.<<<

That's conventional wisdom, but conventional wisdom is not always correct. Regarding the last part of your statement, I know for a fact that there are people that have been put on a very healthy vegetarian diet and fed 8,000 calories per day, and have lost tons of weight (including 1 guy that lost over 400 pounds; I kid you not). [I'm pretty sure that when they finish reconstructing the site and re-linking the searchable health articles, Garynull.com will have that information back online].

Regarding the first part of your statement...the scientific/medical literature is filled with overwhelming evidence is that while it is of course possible to be a meat eater and not exhibit any *outward* signs of disease...it is not possible to be *optimally* well biologically and be a meat eater.

 

[zeruty]

<< I'm glad to see this thread here . . I've been vegan for 15 years or so, and for all the vegetarians I'll offer that any reason you have for being vegetarian (personal health, environmental concerns, ethical issues) applies equally well to being vegan . . .

Here's an interesting look at some physical traits of carnivores compared to herbivores - and humans fit all the traits of the herbivores:

Carnivore:

Sharp teeth, unable to grind with jaw
No ptyalin
Short intestinal tract
Large liver
Smooth colon
No pores

Herbivore:

Grinding teeth, jaw able to move in more than on direction
Ptyalin in saliva
Very long intestinal tract
Small liver
Convoluted colon
Millions of pores >>



That is bull.. show us the same info on typical omnivores

since you probably wont, here is a pretty good link
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-6a.shtml