FREEZING - OCZ memory tricks

[stevejst]

Heard of OCZ Gold PC 3700. Can you believe it, these guys blasted the markings of original Samsung TCB3 and forged their own markings over it. Check Lost_circuits.
Freaking unbelievable!

 

[DanFungus]

(OCZ is a company that sells RAM that supposedly is clocked higher than most other RAM chips, I believe)

There might have been a thread about this before (or just a while ago, I can't remember), but you'd have more support in General Hardware
Most people are just going to come in here and tell you that you're an idiot, so don't mind them

 

[stevejst]

Sorry for disturbing, just wanted to tell you if you are buying OCZ memory to know something. No wonder that OCZ sticks always had a problem with timings. But this is called forgery in my book. What a freaking scam!

 

[TheFishingGeek]

Considering the history of Overclockerz Store, I wouldn't be surprised if they were ripping people off with memory. Once a snake, always a snake.

 

[attention]

Very interesting.
This was done years ago with CPU's.

 

[wicktron]

From OCZ:

INTERNAL USE ONLY : ENGINEERING DEPT -TW-CA

Thermal modification of standard DDR DRAM TSOP packages , for increased thermal dissipation and speed reclassification.

Note #1 : Reference EL DDR packing specification is linked at /spec/elddr.html



Purpose :Increase speed of ( SEC packaged ) TSOP , through using EL DDR packaging theory. To fill product shortage during die revision change

EL DDR Packaging : by decreasing the thickness of encapsulate (low thermal transfer rate ) we are able to effectively increase heat dissipation in DRAM and thereby increase the effective speed of each IC . Using a third party fabrication and packaging plant this theory has been proven and the (B) die revision OCZ EL DDR die had great success. Average maximum speed increase during stage 2 testing has been verified over 23 MHz.

Proposition: While dies fabricated by 3rd parties for OCZ in 3rd party packaging have proven successful to this point . We feel that to insure our success we should supplement by speed binning large quantities of 3rd party IC's and by physically modifying the package decreased thermal resistance and re-speed grade the ICs using the standard Advantest ATE.

Licensing and Disclosure : We have negotiated an agreement with Samsung Semi to allow us to physical modify SAMSUNG brand ICs . Samsung Semi will provide us with pre-graded 466Mhz and 500Mhz ICs for modification. In Exchange we are to provide SEC with the complete EL DDR guideline . See Ryan Petersen for License agreement details.

Industry Disclosure: See Ryan Petersen

Process Engineering : See Mark Meir

Process Overview :

Samsung semi will provide die location information , we will be using the DP-7 CO 2 laser to remove the surface material from the package face only average laser cut depth is 7mill . After surface removal the package should be sent to ISE for environmental test and then re-speed graded after speed grade and classification chips will be marked ( standard process) and standard process thereafter

Heat Dissipation Data : Mark Meir

Pilot Test Result:

Due to the lack of yield from PCS on our C rev (gold series) 16x8 IC we will be supplementing gold series with the SEC products . The SEC product has significantly higher performance ( exceeding DDR 533 in certain cases ) and we should immediately move towards this solution during the interim : PCS and UMC D die test results are giving 95% preliminary yield above DDR 500 speed



6/3/03 NOTICE : THIS IS A LIMITED LIFESPAN PROCEDURE .

6//28/03 NOTICE : PCS and UMC have increased yields and D revision of the OCZ die is expected in the first week of July

7/03/03 NOTICE : ALL MODIFIED SAMSUNG TSOP ARE CURRENTLY BEING ALLOCATED TO PREMIER SERIES

 

[MARMADUKE]

Steve
This is old news!..
What about crucial?..they sent out true samsung pc3200 with there name on it for reviews!.. what do you get when you order crucial pc3200???? micron chips that won't even boot @ 200fsb cas2 UNREAL!

 

[stevejst]

Steve
This is old news!..
What about crucial?..they sent out true samsung pc3200 with there name on it for reviews!

Yeah they all play all sorts of tricks. But these guys are remarking them as sort of 4 ns chips which are actually 6 ns as standardized by Samsung. How many people would buy their PC3700 if they knew that. I still have about a gigabyte of TCB3 and it is a great memory but not PC3700.
The news is new to me. This is what I called crooked!

 

[Trikat]

These days I don't know what ram to buy lol. I guess mushkin all the way sorta and maybe kingston hyperX. Corsair is ok, but they mess around sometimes like my bro got some corsair ram, found out later it was some crap chip in it that had terrible specs, later though corsair release a revision of that pc2700 ram and it performed extremely well. Never will I buy OCZ.

 

[MARMADUKE]

Buffalo pc3200 CH-5 chips beats out OCZ EL 3700 by about 30mhz , OCZ is BH-6 as far as I know? amdforums has a thread going about BAD OCZ sticks in the overclocking section, you might wanna take a look.

 

[stevejst]

Buffalo pc3200 CH-5 chips beats out OCZ EL 3700 by about 30mhz , OCZ is BH-6 as far as I know?

I thought they were BH-5, I mean the "EL" model. This is about "EL Gold" (wink,wink). They have "DDR400" as well. Wonder what is lurking under that?
Somebody has not done good blasting job in OCZ, I guess the boss will need to do that himself the next time.

 

[MARMADUKE]

But these guys are remarking them as sort of 4 ns chips which are actually 6 ns as standardized by Samsung.

This would be false advertising, you should report this to anandtech!

 

[wicktron]

Read my reply.
OCZ found a way to improve upon existing RAM chips. Methods such as these is how companies like Corsair, Kingston, OCZ get such high speed memory. Nobody blasts the former two because of their clean track record but everybody loves to knock OCZ down.

I have the OCZ Gold PC3700. They do DDR520, you cannot beat that with a stick. I'm sorry, but this bashing is completely unwarranted. If you own sticks of OCZ and have problems with them, their support is wonderful. My first set of Gold did not do DDR500, so I contacted support, asked them what I could do to get it there, and the ended up advance RMA'ing me sticks that would do DDR500+ on my setup.

 

[stevejst]

OCZ found a way to improve upon existing RAM chips.

Yeah, I see. Blasting off Samsung markings and fetching on their own fake ones.
What do think, they plucked out few transistors and glued few of their own?

 

[razor2025]

look, I know some people who defend OCZ to death, because they received some incredibly nice OCable RAM. But the truth is that OCZ has been a shady company since the beginning. It went through several hands and none of them have ever raise their reputation to acceptable level. This article is one such unethical, if not down right illegal, method of selling their products. I do not believe they can do the sort of thing they claim they're able to(even if they did, they must be incredibly smart, or miracle workers to be able to modify TCB3 chips, which is RATED for PC2700 spec into PC3700 spec). From the article, it seems like all OCZ did was the shaved part of the chip's capsule for "better heat transfer" and etched on their own BS markings on them. People without the knowledge of this can be lead to believe these chips were truly PC3700 rated and only to find out that they were OCed PC2700 rate chips. From OCZ's point of view, they don't really care. If the RAM they sold worked perfectly for one guy, they can expect the guy to defend their company to death. If the thing turns otherwise, they can hide behind their horrible customer service and find another uninformed buyer.

Now, I'm not against company OCing their RAM and resell them as high-spec RAM, but the failure rate of these OCZ RAM are incredibly high compared to other RAM (Of course, you'll have to exclude alot of junk generics). Added that high-failure rate to non-existent customer service, this RAM makes it a horrible gamble. So, take your pick. Personally, I would rather buy chips that are rated for the frequency and a tried-and-true customer service. (Crucial, Kingston)

 

[wicktron]

This is all I have to say: OCZ's memory works extremely well.
Read my first post and take it as you will. Just because nobody has the balls to battle Kingston/Corsair and take off their heatspreaders don't mean jack. People OCZ bash for no good reason. Lots of people own the OCZ Gold PC3700 or other OCZ modules and I've yet to hear anything bad about them.

 

[dirtrat]

This ISN'T EVEN CLOSE to the same thing! Crucial isn't trying to cover up anything, they just had a shortage of the chips and used samsung chips on the modules. The chips were clearly marked SAMSUNG and in fact they have been doing this for along time! Maybe you shouldn't drag a reputable comanies name in the mud when you don't have your facts right. This isn't even close to the same situation!

Originally posted by: MARMADUKE
Steve
This is old news!..
What about crucial?..they sent out true samsung pc3200 with there name on it for reviews!.. what do you get when you order crucial pc3200???? micron chips that won't even boot @ 200fsb cas2 UNREAL!

 

[wicktron]

By the way, there's a thread about this that's a few days old over at XS...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=bb924541da81884af217cdca818ead8a&threadid=15827

Get over it, the RAM works great.

 

[stevejst]

Wixt0r,
I bought 4 sticks PC3200 Rev1 from OCZ for the lab I maintain. It works fine but my lab does not overclock nor do we use aggressive settings. But believe me, if I knew about this forgery they are doing, I would have never ever bought their memory. I am not going to buy their memory ever again. If this is not crooked than I don't know what it is.
I heard about their garage-type facilities, I guess they equipped themselves with a blaster now.

Get over it

Get over what? What is your problem?
No matter what, the practice as noted here is highly unethical. This might be even illegal.

 

[wicktron]

How is this forgery? I don't understand.

 

[stevejst]

How is this forgery? I don't understand.

Try to think harder. The part is made by Samsung, they have their own markings on it, you are not allowed to erase that, I assume. And why would you do that else than swindle customers?

Then advertising 4 ns chip that is clearly marked as 6 ns chip by Samsung is apparently forgery. Are you stupid?
I know you bought chips, feeling stupid and want to defend them. Just don't tell me black is white if you believe in it. Stop drinking.

 

[wicktron]

Originally posted by: stevejst

How is this forgery? I don't understand.

Try to think harder. The part is made by Samsung, they have their own markings on it, you are not allowed to erase that, I assume. And why would you do that else than swindle customers?

Then advertising 4 ns chip that is clearly marked as 6 ns chip by Samsung is apparently forgery. Are you stupid?

That's right, you're assuming. I think if Samsung had a problem with this, they would have made a move a long time ago. OCZ is simply improving yields. Nowhere do they even claim that they use their own chips... On specifications for the product it says OCZ branded chips, not OCZ produced chips. Rebadged Samsung RAM falls under the category of branded, not produced.

And quit flaming man, it's just childish, just because I have a different opinion on the situation doesn't make me stupid or drunk.

 

[stevejst]

I think if Samsung had a problem with this, they would have made a move a long time ago.

Foolish, you are assuming that Samsung knows that. I am sure that Samsung WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT if they know that. I know I do have a problem with that and many other people.
What do you think how many people would buy this memory if they know what is it in fact?

 

[wicktron]

Read the thread at Xtremesystems, there are plenty of people defending OCZ, and so am I. If Corsair or Kingston were to do this, I would have no problems with it whatsoever. If the product works as it was intended, then what do I care lurks behind the heatspreader. OCZ is just making a product to satisfy the demands of overclockers, just as Corsair and Kingston are fulfilling demands by releasing PC3700 and PC4000 speeds. Whatever route they take to help us out, the better.

 

[stevejst]

Read the thread at Xtremesystems, there are plenty of people defending OCZ

Sure, there are plenty of people buying and geting cheated which is exactly what this is. The OCZ business did not invent anything new technology-wise, else everybody would know that. The only thing they are able to do is to sell to uninformed.
By the way, this is not the first scandal they are involved in.