Friend made a huge mistake!

[Fox2k]

Originally posted by: nick1985
lol your friend is a moron!

lol, you know it's serious when someone joins just to post one thing

 

[ScrapSilicon]

Originally posted by: Ime
pphhhttt!

I've been down this road before:

"Don't get that POS computer! Let me help you buy a better one at a better price."
"No way! The salesman says this PC is top-of-the-line."
"Alright, I warned ya."

When they (my friends) come to me later and complain, I laugh at them. Make 'em buy me a pizza, and then I help them out. LOL

I watched a guy and family buy a desktop Vaio( a store demo..no less..) 2.53 P4. 512 MB DDR(not sure on which speed..), 40GB hd, DVDRom, 40x12x48, 17" monitor(demo also..) ..$1500 ....

 

[LouPoir]

The only thing extreme about 'Intel Extreme Graphics' is that their performance is extremely poor. About equal to a TNT2 16mb at best.

Lou

 

[kgraeme]

So far, absolutely no one here has presented any convincing evidence why this friend is making a mistake. The only thing you've all done is say, "it won't work" or "it's crap" with absolutely no supporting evidence. That does nothing to convince the other person and everything to make him think that you are too stupid to even formulate a coherent and convincing argument. Fortunately, I can help.

Intel Extreme Graphics

This integrated offering from Intel is quite sufficient for everything except gaming. Because it is an integrated offering, it has no RAM of it's own and it grabs 8MB of memory from the main RAM. That means that the onboard graphics uses 8MB instead of the 64 or 128MB common on today's cards. And because that memory is system memory, it will be slower than dedicated on-card memory. In addition, it means that the memory available to the system and applications is 8MB less than what's installed.

Technologically it offers the bare minimum for modern 3D capability, but it falls short of the mark in offering it with performance. For instance, it only offers 1 rendering pipeline as opposed to 4 pipelines on the GeForce 4 and Radeon 9000/9500 (and the 9500Pro and 9700 have 8 pipelines). In addition, the Intel Extreme Graphics doesn't provide now common features such as hardware T&L (texture and lighting) or anti-aliasing.

What matters though is how it performs. At 1024x768 and low detail in Return to Castle Wolfenstein, the onboard graphics manages about 29fps and at high detail only 17fps. There's the slideshow. Compare that with 140fps or so with a ti4600. (Source: SharkeyExtreme) (Once again the Anandtech reviews fall short by not doing any benchmarks of the onboard video, instead only testing the boards with a ti4600 in the AGP slot.)

Radeon 9000 (or PCI vs AGP)

The option of going with a PCI Radeon 9000 isn't the best choice for gaming either. The 9000 has plenty of potential for gaming; unfortunately, the PCI bus doesn't. Comparison of PCI and AGP speeds. PCI is limited to 133 MB/s while AGP 4x is capable of 1066 MB/s.

For benchmarks, if you want to take the 3DMark as a reference point, the AGP 9000 gets around 7500-10000 points. The PCI gets around 3500-5000 points. One person reports getting about 47fps in Unreal Tournament 2K (1024x768) with his PCI 9000.

Update
For fun, I installed BF1942 on the i845g system I have here waiting for someone to pick up. On the Berlin map, I was getting 10fps on average with 640x480, 16bit, low detail. Note that the Berlin map will be one of the better performing maps because it is close combat, not open spaces.

 

[NTB]

I love it when people don't listen . He should have all kinds of fun playing 1942 on that thing. My uncle did about the same thing earlier this year, although to his credit he bought a gateway rather than an HP - so it probably can be upgraded. The thing has a 2GHz or better P4, I think 256MB RAM, and from the looks of the graphics, it was Intel video; been a while since I looked at it. Anyway, my old system running a 1.4GHz Athlon XP & 256MB PC133 could run circles around that thing without breaking a sweat Guess the GF3 Ti200 helped that just a little.

Nate

 

[NTB]

Originally posted by: kgraeme
So far, absolutely no one here has presented any convincing evidence why this friend is making a mistake. The only thing you've done is say, "it won't work" or "it's crap" with absolutely no supporting evidence. That does nothing to convince the other person and everything to make him think that you are too stupid to even formulate of coherent and convincing argument. Fortunately, I can help.

Excellent. Wish I could have come up with all that stuff. As entertaining as this little thread was, I was wondering when I was going to get some good information as to exactly how slow the Intel graphics were. Much thanks! I know a few people I need to show this thread to...

Nate

 

[Joony]

if you want to play games and future games, you definitely need an AGP port to use a decent video card

 

[kgraeme]

Update: For fun, I installed BF1942 on the i845g system I have here waiting for someone to pick up. On the Berlin map, I was getting 10fps on average with 640x480, 16bit, low detail. Note that the Berlin map will be one of the better performing maps because it is close combat, not open spaces.

(This was added to my review above as well.)

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: NTB

Excellent. Wish I could have come up with all that stuff. As entertaining as this little thread was, I was wondering when I was going to get some good information as to exactly how slow the Intel graphics were. Much thanks! I know a few people I need to show this thread to...

You could have come up with most of it if you had just spent some time with Google.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

OMG NOOOOooo.. Tell him that HP computers suck. My roommate got a 1Ghz one last year and he had to get a PCI Geforce MX *cries*

 

[MatthewMaes]

dumbass, build your own computer, dont buy prebuilt crap!

 

[Adul]

kgraeme, the 9000 only has 2 rendering pipelines, but a much faster clock

 

[Johnny101]

Show your friend a better computer and let him be the judge.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Go ahead and let him buy it. And tell him to be sure and close the drink holder before he turns it off.

 

[kgraeme]

Originally posted by: Adul
kgraeme, the 9000 only has 2 rendering pipelines, but a much faster clock

My mistake. I was thinking of the 9000 Pro. Doesn't really matter anyway on PCI.

 

[mikable]

Im not gonna bash HP here since their machines are good for many things

Door stop
Trailer park trash pile
bb gun target
Static shock test station
hold up a three legged chair
hold up end of broken coffee table
gravity testing device
anger management testing device
window strengh testing device
steel toed shoe testing device

and many more!

 

[wetcat007]

HP will never be for gaming... NEVER, are they good for much of anything? NOPE. they are flat out junk! take a look at this article talking about how "extreme" intel extreme graphics really are. They can barly run Quake 3 let alone battlefield 1942 have him buy a alienware instead...

article on Intel Extreme Graphics http://www.pcraider.com/intelextreme/

 

[Tab]

LOL! You can't call HP's upgradeable, I was thinking about replacing the mobo with a ATX, it wont fit, period. The mobo thats it in is Werid Form Factor. I called HP and they said any ATX Mobo will fit and hung up on me, talk about customer service eh? Not to mention I was asking for some PC133, they said a 128MB Stick for $45. Do they really sell computers at Wal-Mart? Is this really true? I am going to show him the post, not to mention kgareme (sp?) was the only person who really helped

 

[mrman3k]

Most of the public is stupid, if you are going to game, either have someone knowledgable in computers like most of us on these forums build the computer or get a Voodoo, Alienware, etc. PC that is a real gaming PC. Of course the best is to have a really knowledgable person build the computer.

 

[bob332]

your friend will have to be heavily sedated to enjoy that machine for gaming, that way i think he will be okay with the frame rates. his brain with then be working at the same rate as the computer, about 8fps @ 640x480...

 

[TheWart]

All I can say is that my 9700PRO could swallow that HP machine whole. Let him make his one mistake, we don't want HP to lose money and make lame printers.

 

[Macro2]

Heres 15-20 more posts you can use. Intel graphics extreme. Sounds impressive heh, lol
If he has to get an off the shelf tell him to get the Compaq business machine I configured. nforce 220 board. gforce2 graphics. 2200+ Athlon XP.
Mac

link

Compaq link

 

[MrCraphead]

you need 29 more posts to persuade your ignorant friend that an HP w/ Intel POS graphics isn't the way to go for games.

 

[ssanches]

Personally, I hate HP's configs. They target the nOOb market where people don't know what they're buying and just go on brand names and marketing hype. HP realizes that they're many many people like this; it's a profitable market segment. For example, in late 2000 / early 2001 , I've seen an HP config like this: P-III 1 Ghz, Intel 810e based mobo, 64MB RAM ....(I'm serious! I haven't made up this config!). This illustrated config is probably the worst that there can be; the nOOb would pay a fortune for the P-III 1 Ghz brand and HP shall earn big margins for this POS. There are jackasses who shall buy it just because the advertisement says it's a P-III 1 Ghz machine, has colorful speaker and cabinet panels that can be changed, helps your children with homework, cutting edge technology, blah blah... and other marketing hype. I just feel sorry for the nOObs

Instead I'd suggest that the nOOb take some friend's help and assemble something decent... else the least he should do is buy a Dell

 

[nanyangview]

ooh cheeese...better do it quick cos i know that most comp store has only 14day return/exchange policy. What model of HP is that? P4 or AMD and it dun have AGP Slot? Go get a value compaq 6000 series computer with AMD CPU,(the case looks better too) it uses the Nforce MB with integrated GF2MX and that will do fine in BF1942. I have been using that chipset for 5months now and i can play games fine on it.