Fury Nano Discussion Thread

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redzo

Senior member
Nov 21, 2007
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Pricing indicates this will be a very low volume product. AMD's constant yapping about this being a premium product is further indication this will be a low availability product. When you know you aren't going to have any to sell, you can jack the price up as it makes more sense to annoy people with a high price and maximize your profits than price it too low a piss off a whole lot more people who can now afford it but can't find one to buy.
Exactly. Fiji is what it is. It is beyond me why some people expected wonders from nano.

Considering the early adoption burden of a very new tech(HBM) I believe that AMD delivered. This is why I've got a feeling that next time(gen) there is a high chance for things turning around.
 

dogen1

Senior member
Oct 14, 2014
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You do not need the source.
The CPU bottleneck speak for it self both on PS4 and Xbox one.Even a weak I3 is better.

You're assuming they didn't know the performance of the parts they chose. I think they went in knowing the full picture.

Anyway, it should perform pretty close to an i3 if the game is well parallelized. Jaguar is ~1/2 the ipc of a haswell/broadwell so a 7 core jaguar @ 1.75Ghz approx. = 3-4 core intel at 1.75Ghz or 2 core intel @ 3.5Ghz.

In addition there are techniques games will use that massively reduce CPU usage like using indirect draws and compute shaders to handle visibility and culling.
 

Azix

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2014
1,438
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The nano can fit in a VERY tiny case.

The price was probably tricky but its a full fiji so I guess we couldnt expect too much there. Some will just get a water block and add it to their existing sff loop or some other setup and have a full fury X.

If high performance GPUs are niche then this is a special high performance sff niche. I think it's main market should be pre-built PCs
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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It seems like even most of the smaller mini itx cases can still fit a 120mm radiator (like in linuses recent video with the silverstone case) and the nano itself isnt much smaller than the Fury X. So for the same money who really buys this over Fury X which is faster, cooler, more headroom, looks better, has backplate etc etc......

I don't get it......needs to be same price as regular Fury to make sense.....

Ya, that's true. I was expecting a price of $449, maybe $499 but $649 is way too high. The other thing is they are putting the best binned Fiji XT chips inside but apparently have a 175W hard power limit? They should have at least allowed the full 225W power limit.

Honestly, they should have given this card a dual personality. Why not add a 6+8-pin connector and force it to run at 175W power limit on BIOS 1 but have BIOS 2 (Uber BIOS) that unlocked full potential for 250-300W TDP? This way someone could easily pay $649 for the best binned Fiji XT GPU and slap their own water-block/AIO CLC but get benefit of the least leaky Fiji XT chips.

As it stands, the Fury X is small enough to fit in most miniITX cases and will be typically operating at 16-17% higher clocks (1050 vs. 900). The only two positives I see in this case is the Nano foreshadows next generations of HBM2 GPUs and how small they will be and it's a glimpse at the Fury X2 as Nano is essentially 1/2 of the Fury X2.

Excitement around the high-end products creates a halo around the entire lineup that pulls in low information consumers. AMD is missing this.

An excellent post!! Pleasure to read.

I'd add that previous management at AMD did try your approach though and it failed, every generation since HD4000. HD4850/5850 had spectacular price/performance, HD6950 unlocked to 6970, R9 290 = 290X, and yet AMD hardly made much $. What they got was 'empty' market share with little profits to show for it. What's better to have 10% market share with profits OR 50% market share with no profits/losses?

But I think while Lisu Su had the right idea overall (Letting products at a loss to gain market share is a horrible strategy long-term), she raised prices too high at a vulnerable time for AMD. She should have coasted this generation with something special like Fury at $399-429, Fury X at $549 and once AMD was stronger, tried raising prices next gen with 16nm HBM2.

Unfortunately this basically means no more historical price/performance from AMD or NV. Now that AMD has abandoned price/performance for the most part, NV will for sure go for a 3rd generation in a row of mid-range Pascal at $500+ prices. For many gamers that means delaying their GPU upgrades every 3-5 years instead of every 2-3 years in the past because we now have to wait much longer to get a great increase in price/performance when upgrading.

Sadly Intel has money, NVIDIA licenses and influence.
Now that MS and Intel is marrying again, expecting to.see the next Xbox (if it survives) made exclusively with Intel and NVIDIA parts, like the original Xbox. Maybe a Core i5 with a Gtx 970 with insane low prices.

I've heard the same wishful thinking for 10 years in a row. There have been quite a few veteran AT posters on here that left the forums or their reputation got destroyed because they kept insisting on the above. Before PS4/XB1 came out, some even insisted that in no way will Sony/MS move to x86 and abandon the awesome sauce (sarcasm) that was the Cell.

While it's hard to predict what new consoles will have as they are still 3-4 years out, Nintendo's next console is rumoured to have AMD parts in it so your theories continue to be wrong.

And it will perform up to 700% better than any AMD solution it has. Give up.

Whatever Intel/AMD have in 2018-2020, we would need to compare to AMD's CPU/GPU parts of that time. Considering how far behind Intel is in graphics and NV's non-existent x86 CPU presence, the most logical solution is actually an AMD APU. Since we don't know what parts AMD will have for sale in 2018-2020, your statement is just a conjecture.

AMD failed hard and deserves a cruel death.

With that one statement you sir have just destroyed your reputation on AT because even if some people prefer NV/Intel, no one sane wants to have no competition in the CPU/GPU space -- only shareholders, short-sellers and blind fanboys.

The nano can fit in a VERY tiny case.

Ya, that's true. In that scenario, the Nano and to an extent the Fury X have no competition. There are plenty of mini ITX cases that will not accept a GTX980 inside. Some people in this thread stating that we've had this level of performance in that form factor in this TDP is also BS. You cannot fit an after-market 980 inside these cases:



Also, if AMD's statements that the Nano = Fury nonX in performance are too be believed, then the 980 isn't even as fast and 970 is even further behind.



If the Nano = Fury 4GB at 98%, that's pretty remarkable for a 175W card as nothing from AMD/NV can touch that. We are talking just 16% behind a reference GTX980Ti.

The price is the biggest obstacle for this card but as far as technological breakthrough, no other card can match it in this form factor in this power usage envelope. Too bad that it appears AMD set a hard 175W power limit. Should have made this card with a 250-300W TDP headroom and 6/8+8-pin connectors.
 
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n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
2,574
252
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Honestly, they should have given this card a dual-personality. Why not add a 6+8-pin connector and force it to run at 175W power limit on BIOS 1 but have BIOS 2 (Uber BIOS) that unlocked full potential for 250-300W TDP? This way someone could easily pay $649 for the best binned Fiji XT GPU and slap their own water-block/AIO CLC but get benefit of the least leaky Fiji XT chips

Spot on. I think that would've been the correct choice. There was talk of allowing custom designs and water-blocks coming for this, but with that 175W cap and only single 8 pin power it doesn't really matter as the card will be held back. This is going to satisfy a niche of niche. Fury X is much more appealing to the majority of enthusiasts I would think.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Spot on. I think that would've been the correct choice. There was talk of allowing custom designs and water-blocks coming for this, but with that 175W cap and only single 8 pin power it doesn't really matter as the card will be held back. This is going to satisfy a niche of niche. Fury X is much more appealing to the majority of enthusiasts I would think.

That's AMD though - they'll get 90% there and screw up the last 10% but that last 10% is the difference between a great product and just kinda being there. For example, they are using this heatsink with a single 92mm fan to cool down a 900mhz 28nm 596mm2 GPU but they needed to use a loud reference blower on a 925mhz HD7970 28nm 354mm2 GPU? It took them almost 4 years to figure that out?

Seeing Fury X constantly OOS in the US, I guess they have little incentive as there should be enough early adopters/niche miniITX user crowd to buy every single one of these Nanos.

I still think 290/290X/390/970 sit in a nice spot at the $220-330 mark and then we have GTX980Ti at $650.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,604
561
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Nano isn't going to perform the same as the X.

Notice AMD is quoting max clock speed, not real-world clock speeds.

The point is (maybe) 850 MHz vs. 1050 MHz:

"AMD saying that under typical usage in most games it runs between 850MHz and 900MHz."
--- ArsTechnica's version of the press release

So 850-900 maybe, using weasel words "typical" and "most." Reviews might show much lower than that for games that AMD didn't cherry pick.

This looks like a nice card, but it is slower for the same cost. We'll see with real reviews how much slower.

My comment wasn't specifically focused on performance, but until I see a review, what they have revealed makes me think it won't be that far off from a Fury X in regards to performance.

It makes me think we are missing some critical information between Fury X, Fury, and Fury Nano. Somewhere in there, it seems like we are not being told something important.

This sort of ties more into my questioning.

Fury X was sold with a water cooler, in my opinion, on two major talking points 1) overclocking capabilities and 2) acoustics.

Well 1 turned out to be a moot point and Fury showed us with that Sapphire cooler that water cooling isn't required for 2. And now AMD has a slide that states "library quiet" which tells me that little dinky cooler is going to be adequate.

So what was AMD's actual purpose for Fury X? With Nano now at the same price point, even if it comes in at say 85-95% performance it is, in my opinion, far more appealing to the general buyer than Fury X.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
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One just has to look on the non X Fury. 1000Mhz, 275W with a cut down chip on air.

The Nano price gives flashback to the 800$ FX9590.
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
2,574
252
126
With Nano now at the same price point, even if it comes in at say 85-95% performance it is, in my opinion, far more appealing to the general buyer than Fury X.

Really? slower, costs the same, runs hotter, probably louder, dumps air in your case, looks worse, has no backplate.

I think complete opposite of you. Far more appealing is the Fury X to the general buyer. And lets be honest, the general buyer for either of these cards is likely an enthusiast so they shouldnt have an issue installing the radiator.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,834
2
26
It's a failure. The worst new GPU release in at least the past decade. It has no reason to exist if this is how much they need to charge for it. A complete waste of AMD's R&D.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,003
3,362
136
Really? slower, costs the same, runs hotter, probably louder, dumps air in your case, looks worse, has no backplate.

I think complete opposite of you. Far more appealing is the Fury X to the general buyer. And lets be honest, the general buyer for either of these cards is likely an enthusiast so they shouldnt have an issue installing the radiator.

Between the two, I would take the Fury Nano.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
642
121
Change the manufacturer and it would be the best GPU release of the decade.
Still no sorry.
When nv launches overpriced gpus, at least it's the highest/best part to buy.
This is the best part given a bunch of restraints that aren't relevant to the market. You can fit a full size card in sff case like the ml07 so no sorry. Nano is a lackluster launch to round up a lackluster hbm launch.

Amd isn't getting any money from me. I'll buy used probably but well, doesn't help amd just helps the person who I'll buy from go out and get a 980ti.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,819
4,744
136
Still no sorry.
When nv launches overpriced gpus, at least it's the highest/best part to buy.
This is the best part given a bunch of restraints that aren't relevant to the market. You can fit a full size card in sff case like the ml07 so no sorry. Nano is a lackluster launch to round up a lackluster hbm launch.

Amd isn't getting any money from me. I'll buy used probably but well, doesn't help amd just helps the person who I'll buy from go out and get a 980ti.

What has become perf/Watt..?..
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126
An excellent post!! Pleasure to read.

I'd add that previous management at AMD did try your approach though and it failed, every generation since HD4000. HD4850/5850 had spectacular price/performance, HD6950 unlocked to 6970, R9 290 = 290X, and yet AMD hardly made much $. What they got was 'empty' market share with little profits to show for it. What's better to have 10% market share with profits OR 50% market share with no profits/losses?

I think we can look to the mobile market where Apple has 90% of the profit to answer that question: the profit matters.

And I guess you are right, the Fury is just another 6950. Or a 7950 with an overclock. But to be fair AMD had more marketshare back in the 6950 or 4850 days, they are bottoming out right now because the 290 series was a marketing failure and both of their pieces of new silicon (Fiji, Tonga) are less interesting values than a respun Hawaii.

Maybe at the end of the day the only halo worth having is the top performance halo. Maybe it is the Titan and not the GTX 980 ti value that sells all those GTX 960s. I mean Nvidia has the fastest single GPU so that must mean it's the best right? To someone buying based on the boxart in best buy the answer is yes. AMD tried for that brass ring and failed with Fiji. I can't knock them for not having a halo when obviously they gave it their best. It just sucks that sometimes your best isn't good enough.

AMD isn't blameless though, their lineup is a mess and has been for a while. Why the hell would anyone have ever bought a 285 when we had 280xs sitting on the market for the same price? The 280X or heck even the 280 with an overclock made the 285 a dead in the water product. For however crappy the GTX 960 is at least Nvidia doesn't have it directly compete with an older GPU in their lineup. AMD is doing the same thing with Fiji and Hawaii, the 390 is simply a better deal than the non X Fury and it isn't close. Heck the non-X fury and the 390x are so close I don't even see the point in the current non-X Fury. It is like AMD expects points just for trying.

One thing I will give Nvidia is that their lines are clear. 750 ti->GTX 960->GTX 970->GTX 980->GTX 980 ti->Ha ha ha you actually paid the price for a Titan. The 950 kinda muddies the water some and I think the gap between the 970 and 980 is too small, but otherwise if you are an Nvidia customer how much you want to spend is what GPU you get.

For an AMD customer you have to compare the 290s and 290Xs with the 390 and 390Xs. Heck even if your budget can accommodate the non-X Fury at current prices it might not make sense, it is so close to the 390x in performance that if it turns out down the road that 4GB or VRAM isn't enough than the 390x might be the better long term buy. And that doesn't even touch the respun mess that is AMD's sub-380 GPUs. I think some of the problem is AMD self-delusion- they really thought the Fury X was a better GPU than the best Nvidia has. If they could be a little more honest with themselves maybe the first Fury card was the X2 JUST so they could steal the "best performing single card" Halo. An X2 with watercooling would have highlighted all the best parts of the Fury X (crossfire performance) while giving AMD a very obvious excuse for its overclocking deficiency. It just feels like a case of misjudging what they have and why cards sell in this market.

What I REALLY admire about the Nano, and why frankly I expect it to be a success at almost any price point, is that it has a VERY clear market. If you need small and powerful it is your GPU. I am a huge Mini ITX fan (HTPCs are my main computing hobby) and there are cases that simply won't accommodate a fullsize card that look really nice. AMD is finally putting out a product that fills a market niche, and I hope it does really well. AMD needs a hit.
 
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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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One just has to look on the non X Fury. 1000Mhz, 275W with a cut down chip on air.

The Nano price gives flashback to the 800$ FX9590.

Funny part as you should be the last one discussing price/performance and Nano's price considering the praise you were giving $550 GTX980 when after-market R9 290X was selling for $300 and R9 295X2 was $600-650. Both the 980 and Nano are overpriced but your reaction to both of them is polar opposite. It's amusing to watch you try to compare FX9590 to the Nano considering the Nano is neither power hungry nor does it have poor overall performance.

It's a failure. The worst new GPU release in at least the past decade. It has no reason to exist if this is how much they need to charge for it. A complete waste of AMD's R&D.

haha not a chance. If Nano ~ Fury, then at 1440P, it will be the 6th fastest card in the world in reference form, beaten only by Fury, Fury X, 980Ti, Titan X and R9 295X2, Titan Z. Even if 980/390X manage to beat the Nano, that would still place the Nano as the 9th fastest GPU which cannot be possibly be the worst GPU released in a decade, especially since hte focus of this card is on form factor and power usage, not outright performance.



The main issues here are the price and the small target market this card is aimed at. If this little card was priced at $399-429, it would instantly make every GPU in the $350-500 price range more or less irrelevant. Had AMD priced this card at $399, it would have cannibalized their R9 390/390X/Fury and Fury X sales. Even at $449, it would be a hard sell for the Fury/Fury X and an impossible sell for the 390X.

My big gripe with this card is that for $649, they should have created dual BIOSes and added 8+8-pin dual power connectors so that way someone could operate the card in small form factor in the 175W TDP on air and the hardcore miniITX enthusiast could have slapped on a water-block and made it a little beast with a 250-300W TDP headroom. That's where I think AMD dropped the ball wrt to the $649 price because they are taking the best binned Fiji XT chips and not giving them the full potential they deserve.

From a technical point of view, if AMD can make a GPU with ~ Fury performance in a 175W power envelope, that bodes well for their next generation 16nm HBM2 products. We need competition and with the Nano AMD is showing they are really focusing on perf/watt which is critical if they intend to compete against Pascal. What's remarkable from NV's GM200's standpoint is that the card overclocks to 1500mhz+ despite a 601mm2 die size but Fury XT becomes very leaky beyond 1100mhz with a 596mm2 die size. It could be that AMD's high density stack is a big liability for their power usage, leakage and overclocking.

I would say GTX950 and GTX960 are by far the bigger failures. The former is the worst price/performance offering in the $100-250 space and the latter is the worst x60 card made in the last 5 generations. As a result, while the Nano sits in the extreme niche category of premium GPUs in very small miniITX cases and it's not really meant to be mainstream, cards like GTX950/960 are aimed at the mainstream gamer and are overpriced turds with gimped VRAM, with awful price/performance goes and mediocre historical generational leaps vs. what else we have on sale in the sub-$225 space.

Really what PC gamers should be focusing on is not how the Nano is an overpriced card in the $650 MiniITX space which is aimed at <1% of PC gamers, but how awful the sub-$250 desktop discrete GPU space has become which probably impacts > 30%+ of the PC gaming market. While it's still possible to buy a $220 after-market R9 290 in the US if one looks hard enough, once stock of those cards is gone, the sub-$250 discrete GPU market will be comprised of really overpriced NV garbage that will sell like hot cakes to the uniformed/less tech savvy gamers influenced by marketing. That's really the sad situation, not the Nano. The Nano isn't going into a budget/lower-end gaming rig so its high price is FAR more acceptable in the grand scheme vs. a gamer on a budget getting crazy ripped off by cards like 750Ti/950/960/960 4GB because of pure marketing and DX12 feature set BS spread online by the green camp's loyalists; added with a sprinkle of shill/bought North American media reviewers that give Silver/Gold awards to cards like GTX950 despite its horrendous $159 price or ignoring the 2GB of VRAM limitation which has been in effect already on 680 / 770 2GB cards for more than a year. But hey, let's ignore the 2GB of VRAM limitations though since it'll be soo much easier for these same reviewers to recommend all those poor gamers with 2GB cards to upgrade to next gen cards. Brilliant ploy.

At least AMD isn't trying to pretend about what the Nano isn't -- they aren't marketing it as a 980Ti/Fury/FuryX/Titan X killer despite its $649 price. NV's Focus Groups, marketing machine is trying to cover up the horrendous 750Ti/950/960 gaming price/performance in exchange for a bunch of marketing features and how people buying these cards are saving polar bears from using $0.50 less in electricity a month - that's really the pure gold of 2015, not the Nano.
 
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poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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The one thought that keeps running through my head is- if AMD has such highly binned GPUs then why isn't the Fury Nano the Fury Mobile instead (aka a laptop GPU)? Seems like where they are weakest is in laptops, they don't have any way of milking that "daddy is buying me a gaming laptop for college" market.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
That was certain from the start.

If 650$ is true however, then its DOA already.

It basically is Fury X, but build for mini-ITX cases. It is a card designed for a specific purpose, and it does do that well and it uses the same chip as the Fury X. I could see them dropping the price to $600 for having a less expensive cooler, but otherwise, there isn't a reason to drop it more. Those who want high performance with space constraints, this is the card.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Funny part as you should be the last one discussing price/performance and Nano's price considering the praise you were giving $550 GTX980 when after-market R9 290X was selling for $300 and R9 295X2 was $600-650. Both the 980 and Nano are overpriced but your reaction to both of them is polar opposite. It's amusing to watch you try to compare FX9590 to the Nano considering the Nano is neither power hungry nor does it have poor overall performance.

The 290X was never 300$ here, specially not in september 2014.

https://pcpartpicker.com/trends/price/video-card/#gpu.chipset.radeon-r9-290x


And you seem to have trouble comparing performance of products like you do with price.

 
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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
It basically is Fury X, but build for mini-ITX cases. It is a card designed for a specific purpose, and it does do that well and it uses the same chip as the Fury X. I could see them dropping the price to $600 for having a less expensive cooler, but otherwise, there isn't a reason to drop it more. Those who want high performance with space constraints, this is the card.

For ITX you want a blower card or something similar that puts the heat outside the case.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
16,382
6,854
136
Still think the main purpose of the Nano was for the 27" Skylake iMac, although 170W is too much for Apple.. it'd have to be cut down a bit more.

It basically is Fury X, but build for mini-ITX cases. It is a card designed for a specific purpose, and it does do that well and it uses the same chip as the Fury X. I could see them dropping the price to $600 for having a less expensive cooler, but otherwise, there isn't a reason to drop it more. Those who want high performance with space constraints, this is the card.

Don't forget the Nano is also likely the best binned chips. That counts for something.
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,990
1,620
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It's an interesting piece of technology. Definitely overpriced, but I could see some people going for it anyway.
 

thesmokingman

Platinum Member
May 6, 2010
2,302
231
106
If this thing was green and called a Titan Nano, ppl would call it the next best thing to sliced bread.
 
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