Future Upgrade Plans and 4K

[Guardian Hope]

Currently, I'm pretty content with my MSI GeForce GTX 660 Ti that came out of the factory (well, Maingear - I didn't mind paying a little extra to not have to build it myself) with a 940MHz (or 980 - not at the PC at the moment) Base Clock and a 1.228Ghz Boost Clock. It's honestly not shown signs of slowing down yet and nVidia's offerings since Kepler have been less than impressive although I am pondering Titan X when I upgrade my PSU to a Corsair AX860i. I mean for the most part this card has performed like a 680 but I know there will come a time to upgrade when I want to go 4K; more on that later.

Right now I want to know, is the the ASUS GeForce GTX 750 (GTX750-PHOC-1GD5 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121854) a good PhysX card? It's appealing due to its smaller form factor and would fit snuggly between the 660Ti and an ASUS AC-66 PCI-E WiFi Card even with that fan.

I read about it in another thread on here so I was curious.

Finally, my question about 4K. My PC is hooked up to two different screens: a 27" monitor and a 1080p Projector through Wireless HDMI. I want to know if (when) I upgrade to a 4K monitor whether or not I can still mirror the screen to the 1080p projector (@1920x1080) while the monitor retains the 4K resolution output. I can't seem to find anything on such a scenario and was hoping someone could answer that.

Oh... and first post! Been browsing Anandtech for years reading reviews and comparisons; just never signed up until now.

 

[tviceman]

Dedicated Physx cards really aren't necessary anymore these days (and rarely ever were). Physx performance on newer games doesn't have the kind of massive hits it used to in single player situations, and there are only about 10 games that come out per year with GPU-accelerated physx. In your case, you have a mid-range card and would get some benefit out of having a dedicated physx card, but you're probably only looking at about 33% best case and given the small number of games plus the ~$90-110 you'd be spending on the 750, I don't think it's worth it. I would not suggest spending money on a dedicated physx card unless you play Borderlands 2 or Presequel multiplayer all the time or some other multiplayer-based game that uses GPU physx effects.

You should be able to mirror but I'm not sure how it works with different resolutions.

 

[Valantar]

After upgrading to the Titan X, are you planning to SLI it at some point? Otherwise, that PSU is overkill. Even the dual GPU Titan Z had just a 375W TDP. A full system with that card wouldn't top 600W under power virus loads.

But more on topic, from my experience mirroring maxes out at the maximum resolution of the lowest res device used. Unless you're able to use DSR or some similar tech to scale the image for the projector. I might be wrong though, it's been a while since I've fiddled with this kind of stuff.

 

[Eric1987]

Well I know 1080p streamed to my 4k monitor looks like absolute garbage.

 

[digitaldurandal]

I mean for the most part this card has performed like a 680

The 660 ti gets about 66% the framerate of a 680.

 

[digitaldurandal]

Finally, my question about 4K. My PC is hooked up to two different screens: a 27" monitor and a 1080p Projector through Wireless HDMI. I want to know if (when) I upgrade to a 4K monitor whether or not I can still mirror the screen to the 1080p projector (@1920x1080) while the monitor retains the 4K resolution output.

No, you cannot. At least not natively in Windows. You may be able to use a software solution similar to tight receiver/tight projector but I have not tried it.

When you duplicate the display it will choose the highest resolution shared between the two displays.

 

[themasterpiece1]

You plan to go from a budget card (660 ti) to an overpriced one (Titan X)?

 

[Mondozei]

Getting the Titan X would be a massive flop. I am curious to how closely you have read these forums, most members would not think getting any Titan card makes any sense at all.

You'll get the full-fat GM200 just some months later. for literally half the price and maybe 90% of the performance if you really have to have NV. The R9-300 series comes out at the end of May/early June.

Either way, you should never pay more than about 550-600 per card and that's probably overpriced anyway.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

No, you cannot. At least not natively in Windows. You may be able to use a software solution similar to tight receiver/tight projector but I have not tried it.

When you duplicate the display it will choose the highest resolution shared between the two displays.

Hmm. Interesting. Are you sure about this? Just thought I'd ask. Instead of mirroring or duplicating the screens (and desktop), I've got a 144 Hz HD monitor and a 60 Hz HDTV connected to my graphics card, with the TV as a "desktop extension." It just shows the wallpaper, and I run my Media Center on it as the "preferred monitor." In that case, I've got up to 144 Hz on the desktop display, and of course, the TV @ 60 Hz.

But I think we're talking about a 4K monitor resolution and a 1080p TV resolution. That's right, then, you might not be able to do it with just the Windows OS. But I thought at one time I'd been able to do it with older analog VGA. Are we sure about this?

 

[kasakka]

The whole point of display mirroring is that what happens on one happens the same on the other. If one has higher resolution than the other then they wouldn't match.

Personally I don't find mirroring useful outside of work presentations and meetings where you have to show something. For everything else extended desktop is nicer.

 

[DooKey]

Ignore these people telling you how much you should spend on a card. Figure out what is comfortable for you and then see what the market has to offer.

 

[alcoholbob]

Getting the Titan X would be a massive flop. I am curious to how closely you have read these forums, most members would not think getting any Titan card makes any sense at all.

You'll get the full-fat GM200 just some months later. for literally half the price and maybe 90% of the performance if you really have to have NV. The R9-300 series comes out at the end of May/early June.

Either way, you should never pay more than about 550-600 per card and that's probably overpriced anyway.

Eh? I didn't think it was that bad of an investment. I got a Titan in February 2013 for $999, sold it in August 2014 for $700, bought a GTX 980 in September 2014 for $549. So I paid $300 for my Titan for great 1080p performance for a year and six months. Honestly I spent more money replacing dead Xbox 360s and PS3s over a 1-2 year period.

If it's a decent compute card it will hold it's value well and you will probably be able to sell it for 65-70% of its asking price by the time Pascal hits.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

The whole point of display mirroring is that what happens on one happens the same on the other. If one has higher resolution than the other then they wouldn't match.

Personally I don't find mirroring useful outside of work presentations and meetings where you have to show something. For everything else extended desktop is nicer.

So you're saying that extended desktop works with monitors of different resolutions?

 

[happy medium]

So you're saying that extended desktop works with monitors of different resolutions?

it does for me on my laptop, my laptop is 720p and my tv is 1080p. I hook my TV up with the VGA connector extend my desktop and all is well. But my TV auto corrects aspect ratio , mabe that's why?

Im not home right now but I'll check in later.

Edit: Yea it does my main computer had a 19 in crt running 1600x1200 and I could extend to my 1080p TV just fine @ 1900x1080.

 

[alcoholbob]

Another thing supporting "value" for a Titan X is if it's really a 620-630mm² die, then a die-shrunk version on TSMC's 16FF (aka 20 + FF) would still be at least 450mm².

That means Pascal needs marketedly more efficient architecture, otherwise a theoretical big-die 561mm² TMSC 16FF flagship is only going to be 25% faster than a Titan X.

 

[Guardian Hope]

Hey everyone! Sorry for such a late reply, I've been busy. I'm going to try and address all the ones that stood out from my reading.

After upgrading to the Titan X, are you planning to SLI it at some point? Otherwise, that PSU is overkill. Even the dual GPU Titan Z had just a 375W TDP. A full system with that card wouldn't top 600W under power virus loads.

I was basing the PSU on a few factors: an i7-3770K with a 4GHz OC, 1 Seagate Barracuda 7200.14, 3x Western Digital Reds in RAID, the four (or five, I have to count again) fans the system has, the ASUS PC-AC66 PCI-E card, and the maximum sustained PSU load I have seen of about 312W - playing Elder Scrolls Online. On average it's around 270W - 280W for most other games. I also made a rather small allowance for an SSD in the future.

I wasn't planning for a second Titan X.

Getting the Titan X would be a massive flop. I am curious to how closely you have read these forums, most members would not think getting any Titan card makes any sense at all.

You'll get the full-fat GM200 just some months later. for literally half the price and maybe 90% of the performance if you really have to have NV. The R9-300 series comes out at the end of May/early June.

I never said anything about the forums. I've been browsing Anandtech the main site for years.

I have no interest in the R9-300 series. Aside from not wanting a GPU that runs hot enough that it needs liquid cooling, every AMD part seems "cheap" in quality. Plus, there are nVidia features I wouldn't want to give up such as regular driver updates and beta drivers which actually support HDCP.

The whole point of display mirroring is that what happens on one happens the same on the other. If one has higher resolution than the other then they wouldn't match.

Personally I don't find mirroring useful outside of work presentations and meetings where you have to show something. For everything else extended desktop is nicer.
03-08-2015 01:47 PM

I assumed that if they were of the same aspect ratio, scaling could be performed. There's no WHDI/WHDMI solution that exist on the market as far as I can tell which is capable of transmitting 4K reliably with quality. Not to mention DTS surround sound. Especially over the distance between the computer and the projector.

With mirroring it made it easy to open Media Center with a remote or to launch a game from Steam Big Picture mode without having to fuss about which goes where considering that I can't see the projection screen from the location of the PC/monitor. I didn't want something to end up somewhere on the second screen that I needed on the PC's monitor when I'm actually physically at it.

If it's a decent compute card it will hold it's value well and you will probably be able to sell it for 65-70% of its asking price by the time Pascal hits.

I'm not into the "reselling" of PC parts. I never have. I've donated some but resale value is not part of the equation so I am unconcerned with what I would get back by reselling it.

However, I've been hearing about Pascal for a while now but don't know if that's something I should wait for. I'm still happy with the 660 Ti's performance and can wait another generation if Pascal is supposed to be that "big" thing that the rumors indicate.

---

Anyways, I guess I do have the rather unusual setup. No wonder I couldn't find answers through Google. What's of interest to me is that currently the 660Ti has two active connections: HDMI to an 27" LG Monitor and a Display Port-HDMI connection to the WHDI transceiver. When it mirrors I've seen nVidia's Control Panel lock out individual resolution selection but it doesn't seem to lock out the refresh rate. The projector gets a refresh rate recorded at 60Hz while the LG monitor has a refresh rate at 59Hz.

Extending the display could work; Media Center is only ever launched to be viewed by the projector. However, Steam games have been launched on both the projector and when I'm sitting at the PC. That's where it would get tricky for me. Even Chrome when watching something from a TV channel website could cause a hassle if it is extended and the distance between the monitor and projector is about 75ft so I don't have line of sight to drag a program from one screen to the other.

 

[Shmee]

Op, what games do you plan on playing at 4k? I know you mentioned ESO, but depending on games and settings, it is my understanding that you will probably want more than 1 GPU for 4k gaming in general. 2 980s or 2 of the upcoming full maxwells may be your best bet.

 

[Qwertilot]

Pascal should get a die shrink all the way from 28nm to 14nm and fairly likely the high bandwidth memory stuff too.
(AMD seemingly planning to use that on one or two things this summer).

So they'd have to try quite hard for it not to be quite a major advance Might be a while arriving of course - especially the larger/higher performance parts - but if you're happy where you are right now then no rush.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

it does for me on my laptop, my laptop is 720p and my tv is 1080p. I hook my TV up with the VGA connector extend my desktop and all is well. But my TV auto corrects aspect ratio , mabe that's why?

Im not home right now but I'll check in later.

Edit: Yea it does my main computer had a 19 in crt running 1600x1200 and I could extend to my 1080p TV just fine @ 1900x1080.

Wouldn't the aspect ratio for 720p and 1080p be the same at 16:9? I have 720p digital channels coming in for which I need WMC to "Zoom" the screen -- eliminating the black space on the edges.

I will say this, though. You CAN mix monitors on the same computer with 4:3 and 16:9, with some minor quirks.

 

[Guardian Hope]

Op, what games do you plan on playing at 4k? I know you mentioned ESO, but depending on games and settings, it is my understanding that you will probably want more than 1 GPU for 4k gaming in general. 2 980s or 2 of the upcoming full maxwells may be your best bet.

I thought that at least the Titans would have moved to a point where 1 PCB would be enough since aren't all but one technically dual GPUs like the 690 was?

Although, I don't play often, I do prefer to have the no hassle experience when I do play. It'd be mostly my current games I've been playing like ESO, Skyrim, Tomb Raider, War Thunder, Sim City, Battlefield 4, Elite: Dangerous, EVE, and whatever else that might come a long like Dragon Age and I hear MGS5 is coming to PC. Things like that.

Really though, this was just a passing idea since I saw some of the 4K displays which look absolutely gorgeous. However, if GPUs haven't quite got up to 4K I can hold off. I haven't played a game yet which required me to back down the GPU settings (aside from PhysX in Borderlands 2).

Pascal should get a die shrink all the way from 28nm to 14nm and fairly likely the high bandwidth memory stuff too.
(AMD seemingly planning to use that on one or two things this summer).

So they'd have to try quite hard for it not to be quite a major advance Might be a while arriving of course - especially the larger/higher performance parts - but if you're happy where you are right now then no rush.

Yeah, like with the 7xx series, the 9xx series hasn't seemed "worth it" to upgrade. They honestly feel more like "sidegrades" rather than upgrades. It's why I haven't bothered to move past the 6xx series. But, what little information that may or may not be true about Pascal does make it sound like the next logical step for upgrading a 6xx series.