Gateway FPD2485W - beware

[postmortemIA]

So I went to BB and saw it, looked not that bad on VGA on their display computer, and size was jsut beatiful so I decided to spend my tax $ on it.. I thought it is gonna look well on DVI. Well it doesn't. Banding is worse than my 3 Samsung TN panels, even than TN panel from 2003.

Although it is supposed to be able to display 16.7 mil of colors, with IPS panel (EDIT: Yes it is PVA, my bad), it fails miserably at any contrast test. Viewing angle is good, so it is not TN. I wish I had digital camera to show what I mean, but lets just say that all you get on gradient test is list of stripes, at all points of screen. Not even uniform - some darker spots appear where lighter should be...


Beside that, sharpness is poor like it costs $100, not $679.

It is nice to be able to buy it and test it, but I recommend anybody considering it to check mentioned weaknesses.

 

[NoStateofMind]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1114872

 

[n7]

It's an S-PVA panel FYI.

And your experience is not normal.

Most people have been quite happy with the 2485...

 

[Zebo]

I saw it at Frys hooked up to dvi and noticed banding too but overall decent display. Colors were rich and had better viewing angles of other 24's I've seen. Persoanlly I'd look at Veiwsonics 23" they had at fys too and IMO looked better and cosmetically too. But it's $350 more.. for good reason.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: n7
It's an S-PVA panel FYI.

And your experience is not normal.

Most people have been quite happy with the 2485...

Read that thread lots of discerning users complaining about blurry text, buzzing noise, banding etc.

Postmortem do yourself a favor and get the NEC 20WMGX2 to tide you over till the NEC 24WMGX2 gets here. I know $550 sounds crazy for a 20" but its really worth it if you're having issue with this quality display which IMO gateway is of reasonable quality. Locally CC carries the NEC so return shouldn't be an issue..

 

[n7]

I have read that thread.

I also have used that LCD at work, & used it @ my buddy's.

I would certainly not say it's perfect, but considering its price point, variety of inputs, & portrait mode capability, i think it's damn good overall.

Then again, i still prefer my 3007WFP for some odd reason

 

[Zebo]

30" of IPS power :rool::: I said I liked GW as well all things considered but I wouldn't own it.

Now could you explain why you'd use portait on a 24" screen?

 

[postmortemIA]

I've returned it, and folks at BB thought I'm nuts spoiled or something, not getting why would somebody return such big LCD...

Banding is not issue if you don't look for it, it won't show on images where colors significantly differ from pixel to pixel, but for example, it will show on last test of 3DMark06, on sky that has mild blue transitions.

I did few online tests, and made a few gradients in Photoshop, and banding was all over place, I wouldn't believe such expensive monitor behaves like worst one. Even my Samsong 172N from 2003 dues all gradient test fine. It is not only that mild transitions were visible, it was that there were lighter-darker-lighter-darker patterns all over place, like that colors are off by a large margin. AIDA32, for us who kept last version before it moved to EVEREST, has nice monitor tests, and its gradient looked like set of lines instead of mild transitions where eye cannot detect steep change of color.

Anyway, I have 20.1" Samsung 204B which is TN panel...with no bonding whatsoever. Even colors are not much worse than of FPD2485W: Black is better, white is not.

Beside banding, there's problem with sharpness. So this cheapo Samsung has terrific sharpness (thanks to super fine 0.255mm pixel pitch), while Gateway's is bad... it has some anti glare coating that makes neighborhoods pixels have some weird color, it is very visible on white background, gives effect like some pixels are gray....

Although, Gateway has best menu system, most inputs, nice design, very good viewing angle, and excellent brightness (no real black though)

IMO perhaps Dell 2407WFP has same panel because specs look similar and 2407 suffered from same problems initially.. even price is same (within $5 as of now)

and one I had was Nov 06 edition, with many complaints on HOCP about it.

 

[Zebo]

and folks at BB thought I'm nuts spoiled or something, not getting why would somebody return such big LCD...

Typical morons. Same ones who buy rainbow effect 61" DLP's and think they have a good TV set.:roll:

 

[Painman]

I've got this panel. Overall I like it, though I'm about to go back and get my 3rd one. 1st had a stuck pixel smack-dab-bullseye in the middle of the panel that wouldn't go away. 2nd one has bleed in all 4 corners, it's better when it's warm but still there. Neither one had the buzzing; both Dec units.

I see some banding on it, but only on tough gradient tests. Haven't seen it pop up during typical use yet. I see a hint of blurriness on text under certain conditions, like reading this here forum - the default font is small but fairly bold, so it's as if the panel needs 1.5 horizontal pixels to display it. The result is some shadow/miscoloration on the edges of some characters, though I sit far enough away from the screen to mitigate the effect. Everything is razor sharp elsewhere. I'm hesitant to blame this latter issue on Gateway; it seems more like a shortcoming of the 24" S-PVA panel itself and its pixel density.

So all in all, if I can overcome some initial QC obstacles with this display, I may just go ahead and stick with it. I got a very good deal on it, which is an incentive. 30"+ is too much $ right now and won't work out logistically. I'd love a 24" IPS but again, the $. This GW does everything I want a panel to do pretty well, and its fundamental flaws are something I can probably live with. Choosing a panel does seem, in part, to come down to which flaws you can live with - they all have them.

 

[chizow]

This panel caught my eye when I was in BB the other day picking up the WD Passport 80GB ($79 now with no MIR, pretty nice deal imo). I didn't see a price tag, so I wasn't sure if they even sold it. It was hooked up to a PC running Vista and looked really good. I tabbed out of the Demo and was playing around in Vista, but didn't see any games or game demos.

Nice looking panel though, the bezel wasn't as big as I expected reading some reviews. There's a glossy finish which can be good or bad depending on your preferences. More and more, I'm becoming dissatisfied with my 2407's inability to do 1:1. I've got about a week to decide whether to keep it or not, but as of right now, I'm leaning towards sending it back and going with this Gateway (which I can buy at a B&M) or with the BenQ (which seems to be largely shipping with updated firmware allowing 1:1). I'll end up spending a bit more on the Gateway or BenQ but at this point I know I won't be satisfied without the ability to do 1:1 via inputs or via DVI from my PC (8800 drivers haven't been fixed yet). Filled/stretched images are simply unacceptable and a deal-breaker imo.

 

[dennilfloss]

Chizow,

There's a good deal on the BenQ at NCIX until February 6th.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=2000694&enterthread=y

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Painman
Choosing a panel does seem, in part, to come down to which flaws you can live with - they all have them.

Did'nt your NEC have way less of them if not any? I believe your problem was not even panel related other than it's small size but in HW scaling issues. Yes all panels have flaws, one which can never be corrected is motion blur, but some less than others. Why you think I'm holding out in the 19x12 space? There simply are no awesome 24's...

I can't believe you like it...third one.. blurry text...gradient banding.. Is size really all that important to trump those defects?

 

[xtknight]

I honestly don't know how people expect banding not to occur on a high contrast, digital LCD with 256 discrete levels of brightness. I mean, what is supposed to happen?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Chizow,

There's a good deal on the BenQ at NCIX until February 6th.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=40&threadid=2000694&enterthread=y

Ya I saw that deal in Hot Deals, ty for the heads-up I think one of your other posts in the myriad 24" threads piqued my interest in the BenQ. I wish I did a little bit more research on which panels did 1:1 before I got the Dell, but then again, I thought I had a reasonable chance at the A04 when I ordered. Seems like right now its a snow balls chance in hell to get one......

Newegg is actually sligthly cheaper atm I think.....$750-$50 promo code, but they've got the whole lottery thing going on still with panels shipping without the 1:1 firmware update. Either way, I'll be without a 24" for a few days as I wait for Dell to credit my account back.

Originally posted by: Zebo

I can't believe you like it...third one.. blurry text...gradient banding.. Is size really all that important to trump those defects?

Sadly, yes. D: Sure there's a lot of problems with the 24", but the size and resolution are exactly what I'm looking for in an LCD. Other options are 27"+ which break into the $1200-2000 and have their own associated problems. The 27" suffers unbalanced size/resolution/pitch problems similar to the 22" panels and the 30" run 2560 which imo, is too taxing on high-end single card solutions. This basically leaves you with 1 upgrade path in terms of GPU scaling: Bleeding Edge or Bust 24/7/365.

 

[Zebo]

Well I'm not sure why you guys refuse to look at the 23's which are really IPS and blow these PVA's out of the water in color, response, viewing angles, little input lag etc like the W..Apples 23" aluminum, Philips 230WP7, HP L2335 (with newer 02 panel) or , etc. until NEC's 24" gamers special arrives.

http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/gamingspecial/index_en.html

I'm addicted to opticlear is the only reason I havnt bought the Veiwsonic.

OTOH if you got the cash and absolutely need that extra inch NEC's LCD2490WUXi is out there now for $1300..

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Well I'm not sure why you guys refuse to look at the 23's which are really IPS and blow these PVA's out of the water in color, response, viewing angles, little input lag etc like the PLANAR PX2320MW..Apples 23" aluminum, Philips 230WP7, HP L2335 (with new 02 panel) or ViewSonic's VP2330wb , etc. until NEC's 24" gamers special arrives.

http://www.nec-display-solutions.com/gamingspecial/index_en.html

I'm addicted to opticlear is the only reason I havnt bought the Veiwsonic.

Well, I took a look at the 23" you mentioned, but at a price of $1000, you're getting into 27"-30" territory. Then once again, you're balancing the lesser of two (or more) evils. A little more money for a MUCH bigger S-IPS panel (2707 or 3007) but you inherit an even heftier price tag compared to the 24" options along with the concerns I already mentioned.

I have no doubt that the NEC and the two panels you mentioned have better color, IQ, viewing angles, response etc. but honestly, those aren't the issues with the A03 that are bothering me. The fact it can't do 1:1 is my biggest concern, followed by input lag at a far second. If I can get a 24" that'll do 1:1 and do at least as well as the 2407 in terms of color, IQ, response, viewing angles etc. I'll be perfectly content until the next time I upgrade in 2-4 years. Maybe by then there'll be even less problems to worry about.

 

[Zebo]

The Viewsonic, Philips and the HP all support HW 1:1 scaling I don't know about the others. As far as price they are right there with 24's. $650-$1000 at pricewatch depending which you pick.


The 27" Dell is a S-PVA and the 30" is a S-IPS but with older and slower panel than say the philips I mentioned above. If 30" is of intrest the HP 3065 is the way to go today.

 

[Painman]

Well the jury hasn't delivered a verdict on Gateway yet, still deliberating... Panel #3 is here, and it's the best so far of the lot - no pixel issues, backlight is very even, no buzzing out of the back even though it's a Nov. build. Disconcerting though that it took 3 tries to get one that's promising, now let's see what the backlight does after it burns for a few days. I have till next Sunday to sh!t or get off the pot with this panel.

The 20WMGX2? The non-scaling was truly a deal breaker. It had other issues that didn't make me happy (no height adjustment, infuriating little menu joystick) but it's true that I couldn't complain about the IPS panel itself. Coming from a CRT that was already running 16x12 made it hard to justify spending $600 for 16x10 too.

I'm looking at S-PVA 24" to see if it's a compromise I can be content with - Zebo of course you know that I know how good IPS runs, but 24" is where I want to be, and can I swallow that horse pill of a pricetag on 23-24" IPS? That's what I'm trying to decide. It's a lot more $ than what I'm in for right now.

 

[postmortemIA]

Painman:

Can you get AIDA32 v3.93 from MajorGeeks, and run monitor diagnostics (on Plugin menu), and particularly HSL color palette test?

And look for banding, if it is like I saw, it will be very very bad and obvious.

 

[Zebo]

Pain - Of course I think it's worth it. I've read a lot of users reviews at widescreen gaming forums and all who made move to a 23" IPS from those 24" PVA's (usually the Dell they think they had a deal on) are extremely happy shedding it - it's *never* the other way around.

 

[Zebo]

One more thing to say to you guys whining about price, personally, I can't understand how people don't mind spending a $1500-$2000 on PC components but then want a cheap monitor to look at every day. Very strange. Yeah spending a grand on a single PC component is pretty hard to swallow but a display is the only component that justifies the cost. It's what you interact with everyday and lasts a very long time. Least y'all are not as bad as guys that drive me most crazy with their 8800 GTX's and looking for a $300 monitor cause they spent their load already. I seriously want to punch somebody when I see that.:|

Oh and Pain, I have two VESA LCD stands laying around the house off 2080UXi's - height pivot etc for your GX2.. I would have sent you one.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: postmortemIA
Painman:

Can you get AIDA32 v3.93 from MajorGeeks, and run monitor diagnostics (on Plugin menu), and particularly HSL color palette test?

And look for banding, if it is like I saw, it will be very very bad and obvious.

I get some banding artifacts in the same range as I do in xtknight's gradient tests, down in the lower saturation levels. Mid to high saturation levels look OK. The GW panel is by no means perfect, but it sounds like you got a look at a particularly poor specimen.

Zebo - I have no problem going to a 19x12 23", in fact the smaller pitch the better. You kinda act as though I've ruled IPS out of the picture - I haven't - but I need to see for myself if and why it's worth the premium. It's my money though based on my experience so far with consumer LCD, the extra shellout for professional LCD looks more justifiable. It's not just the panel type, it's the company behind it. trying 3 of the same panel to get one good one is pretty lame. At least I didn't go Dell and have do it all via UPS.

So rest assured, I'll be looking at some higher end stuff over the next few days. Feel free to help

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Zebo
One more thing to say to you guys whining about price, personally, I can't understand how people don't mind spending a $1500-$2000 on PC components but then want a cheap monitor to look at every day. Very strange. Yeah spending a grand on a single PC component is pretty hard to swallow but a display is the only component that justifies the cost. It's what you interact with everyday and lasts a very long time. Least y'all are not as bad as guys that drive me most crazy with their 8800 GTX's and looking for a $300 monitor cause they spent their load already. I seriously want to punch somebody when I see that.:|

Oh and Pain, I have two VESA LCD stands laying around the house off 2080UXi's - height pivot etc for your GX2.. I would have sent you one.

Well, I checked out some of the 23" IPS you mentioned, and it looks like only the Planar and HP support HDMI. Again, I wouldn't consider the Planar simply because its in the $1000+ price range, which puts it into competition with larger panels that also have problems in my eyes. The 1" wouldn't be that big of a difference, but even the difference between a 22" and 24" was pretty noticeable when I had both sitting on my desk about 10 days ago. The HP looks like a pretty good panel and falls into the 600-800 price range, I'll see if I can find one to look at in person this weekend.

As for price, I agree that the monitor is one of the most important components, if not the most important, but then again, you need to balance price to performance vs. other options. If you were to budget a new system for $2000, you could buy a fast rig for $1200-1400 and spend the rest on a good panel for $600-800. Or, you could spend $1000-1500 on a panel and end up with a slow and unbalanced system to drive it. Of course it also depends on what you'll be using your PC for most of the time, and the main thing driving my desire for a faster/better rig is PC gaming. Once you bring that into the equation, you could simply spend $2000 for a top of the line 1080p 40"+ LCD TV and buy an Xbox360, PS3 and Wii for the same money as it would cost to part out a fast system + high-end monitor.

 

[ChakkaSol]

Im looking at buying this GW 24 display and it looks like the users on the hardocp website seem to agree that those displays with the Dec or later manufacturer date are not have the quality control problems with those made in Nov for the xmas season.

Also a new eztune 1.4 version is out which looks like it makes the color standout now.

I guess the ones with the blue and green stickers versus the yellow and orange are Dec or later...whatever that means.