Geforce 8

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nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
Originally posted by: toyota
Originally posted by: Cooler
Originally posted by: munky
Nobody here knows when it will be out. Or if they do, they aren't allowed to tell. But I can say with 99% confidence that it will not be out until August at the very earliest, and furthermore I'm fairly sure it may even be released later than that, like September-October timeframe. The bottom line is there's no point waiting for it if you need a new card now.

I see next January as more realistic for both cards. I think both ATI and Nvidia will make a new high end refresh at the end of the summer. It seems that gpu?s are back on the 6 month cycle.
did you even read the posts here? there is no way in hell Nvidia is waiting 8 more months to release there next series. there is nothing left to refresh on the top end. they have even ran out of things to call them.

And you're back at it... Didn't I already explain to you why we might see another refresh..? Who's not reading posts now? If Vista (DX10) doesn't come out until 2007, and the DX9 performance of the DX10 cards is worse than current generation cards, then it not only does it make sense for their to be yet another refresh, but it makes it likely.

IMO, the 7950GX2 being released as it's own retail "single card" solution (as opposed to just being sold in pairs as part of a boutique rig) could be construed as yet another refresh on the G7x line. Then you tack on ATI's X1950XTX, and there you have your next "refresh".

It's possible that you're right, but basing that on the fact that you don't think they have anymore names left to choose from isn't proof that it is so.
 

hemmy

Member
Jun 19, 2005
191
0
0
Originally posted by: satisfaction
When will geforce 8 be out?
There is no point if it isn't out by June-July.

1) A 7900GT isn't good enough to play games even at 1280*1024 without aa and af. So I am strongly against 7900GT.

2) I live in India and the cost of 7900GTX is around Rs.32000 and the 1900XT for about Rs.37000. 1 USD = Rs. 45

3) 1900XT uses more power supply and in that case I may need to go in for a new one leading to a price difference of almost 150-200$.

4)According to most benchmarks, the 7900GTX beats the 1900XT.

5) By the way is there any way to check whether a mobo has an agp/pci e slot without opening the cabinet?

6)Please answer the power requirement question?

What game are you talking about that a 7900gt can't play 1280x1024 with no aa/af

 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: nitromullet
Originally posted by: toyota
Originally posted by: Cooler
Originally posted by: munky
Nobody here knows when it will be out. Or if they do, they aren't allowed to tell. But I can say with 99% confidence that it will not be out until August at the very earliest, and furthermore I'm fairly sure it may even be released later than that, like September-October timeframe. The bottom line is there's no point waiting for it if you need a new card now.

I see next January as more realistic for both cards. I think both ATI and Nvidia will make a new high end refresh at the end of the summer. It seems that gpu?s are back on the 6 month cycle.
did you even read the posts here? there is no way in hell Nvidia is waiting 8 more months to release there next series. there is nothing left to refresh on the top end. they have even ran out of things to call them.

And you're back at it... Didn't I already explain to you why we might see another refresh..? Who's not reading posts now? If Vista (DX10) doesn't come out until 2007, and the DX9 performance of the DX10 cards is worse than current generation cards, then it not only does it make sense for their to be yet another refresh, but it makes it likely.

IMO, the 7950GX2 being released as it's own retail "single card" solution (as opposed to just being sold in pairs as part of a boutique rig) could be construed as yet another refresh on the G7x line. Then you tack on ATI's X1950XTX, and there you have your next "refresh".

It's possible that you're right, but basing that on the fact that you don't think they have anymore names left to choose from isn't proof that it is so.
well we will see. i promise you we will not be waiting 8 months for a new series from Nvidia.

 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
I certainly didnt expect to be waiting 8 months for a die shrink and a clockspeed bump, so their past product release schedules are not necessarily indicative of th future.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,551
136
toyota, use of the caps lock key or bold face is considered yelling. Unless you're emphasizing a point, please refrain from excessive use of these two features since it's considered bad manners. There are many very valid reasons why nVidia and ATI are not going to release DX10 parts any time soon. You can make all the guarantees you want but unless you have inside information you're just speculating and spouting an opinion. Your speculation may be as valid as my speculation (or someone else's speculation) for different reasons and until the cards are released no one knows for sure. Those in the know are usually under NDA this early in the next card's release date. You want people to believe your opinions and speculation and that's fine but provide reasons why I should believe what you say.

Personally I'm of the opinion that we will see refresh cards in the June/July timeframe. This link at Dailytech seems to support this. I have felt for a long time that DX10 cards won't be out until late November to try to cash in on holiday sales as well as selling it closer to Vista's release date. If you release DX10 cards too early you lose any hype generated by Vista as well as an extra holiday hype for new just released DX10 cards. It just makes sense for both ATI and nVidia to better polish their DX10 parts by having a later release date. Refresh parts are relatively easy to do for both companies and will take minimal resources while the bulk of their efforts will go to improving their new architectures. Both ATI and nVidia would like to make more money off their exhisting GPU cores than having to ramp up to a new core considering the cost of research and development nowadays. The more money you make off each GPU core, the better shape you are in when you have to ramp up to the next core.

For consumers there is little reason to move to DX10 right now except on hype. I have yet to see any comparision of a game in DX10 mode and DX9 mode so it's questionable whether the initial batch of DX10 games will offer any graphical improvement at all. DX9 games will probably run slightly slower on Vista due to DX9 being in some form of emulation in DX10. While I don't doubt that the new cards will be faster, it's questionable how much faster DX9 will be on these new cards since most of the focus will be in getting them DX10 compliant and fine tuning for DX10 games. The question also must be asked about when DX10 games will be out. Now, the only really concrete game we've heard is Crysis but from everything we've seen, the game is running in DX9 mode and it looks stunning. If the next batch of DX9 games are going to look this good, what incentive do I have to move to Windows Vista and DX10 which should be buggy and not quite ready for prime time as evidenced by all new OS releases. Personally I'm waiting until Windows Vista SP1 hits before I even think of moving to Vista. And finally, DX10 games that truly make great use of DX10 won't be out for at least another two to three years. Just look at how long it took for developers to truly take advantage of DX9 and make stunning looking games.

I hope I don't sound too negative. I really do hope I'm floored by the initial DX10 cards but I really doubt I will be. More likely I will not be buying a DX10 part until the 2nd generation of cards.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: akugami
toyota, use of the caps lock key or bold face is considered yelling. Unless you're emphasizing a point, please refrain from excessive use of these two features since it's considered bad manners. There are many very valid reasons why nVidia and ATI are not going to release DX10 parts any time soon. You can make all the guarantees you want but unless you have inside information you're just speculating and spouting an opinion. Your speculation may be as valid as my speculation (or someone else's speculation) for different reasons and until the cards are released no one knows for sure. Those in the know are usually under NDA this early in the next card's release date. You want people to believe your opinions and speculation and that's fine but provide reasons why I should believe what you say.

Personally I'm of the opinion that we will see refresh cards in the June/July timeframe. This link at Dailytech seems to support this. I have felt for a long time that DX10 cards won't be out until late November to try to cash in on holiday sales as well as selling it closer to Vista's release date. If you release DX10 cards too early you lose any hype generated by Vista as well as an extra holiday hype for new just released DX10 cards. It just makes sense for both ATI and nVidia to better polish their DX10 parts by having a later release date. Refresh parts are relatively easy to do for both companies and will take minimal resources while the bulk of their efforts will go to improving their new architectures. Both ATI and nVidia would like to make more money off their exhisting GPU cores than having to ramp up to a new core considering the cost of research and development nowadays. The more money you make off each GPU core, the better shape you are in when you have to ramp up to the next core.

For consumers there is little reason to move to DX10 right now except on hype. I have yet to see any comparision of a game in DX10 mode and DX9 mode so it's questionable whether the initial batch of DX10 games will offer any graphical improvement at all. DX9 games will probably run slightly slower on Vista due to DX9 being in some form of emulation in DX10. While I don't doubt that the new cards will be faster, it's questionable how much faster DX9 will be on these new cards since most of the focus will be in getting them DX10 compliant and fine tuning for DX10 games. The question also must be asked about when DX10 games will be out. Now, the only really concrete game we've heard is Crysis but from everything we've seen, the game is running in DX9 mode and it looks stunning. If the next batch of DX9 games are going to look this good, what incentive do I have to move to Windows Vista and DX10 which should be buggy and not quite ready for prime time as evidenced by all new OS releases. Personally I'm waiting until Windows Vista SP1 hits before I even think of moving to Vista. And finally, DX10 games that truly make great use of DX10 won't be out for at least another two to three years. Just look at how long it took for developers to truly take advantage of DX9 and make stunning looking games.

I hope I don't sound too negative. I really do hope I'm floored by the initial DX10 cards but I really doubt I will be. More likely I will not be buying a DX10 part until the 2nd generation of cards.
the refresh cards you are looking at are 7800 cards. there will NOT be a top end refresh for Nvidia. the 7900 and new 7950 cards are it. thats why i have been typing in bold and using caps. i am trying to get my point across but almost every other person says "we wont have new cards till Vista". the Geforce cards are going to better cards whether even in DX9. it makes MORE sense to have a new higher performance series of cards come out that will be able to run DX9 in XP and be Vista ready.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,018
2,235
126
Originally posted by: toyota
the refresh cards you are looking at are 7800 cards. there will NOT be a top end refresh for Nvidia. the 7900 and new 7950 cards are it. thats why i have been typing in bold and using caps. i am trying to get my point across but almost every other person says "we wont have new cards till Vista". the Geforce cards are going to better cards whether even in DX9. it makes MORE sense to have a new higher performance series of cards come out that will be able to run DX9 in XP and be Vista ready.

As Akugami said, unless you have inside info (in which case you're probably under NDA??), what you're saying is speculation so I don't know who you're trying to convince with your CAPS and BOLD

You may be right, you may be wrong but I don't see why you have to convince everyone else that your opinion is right...
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: thilan29
Originally posted by: toyota
the refresh cards you are looking at are 7800 cards. there will NOT be a top end refresh for Nvidia. the 7900 and new 7950 cards are it. thats why i have been typing in bold and using caps. i am trying to get my point across but almost every other person says "we wont have new cards till Vista". the Geforce cards are going to better cards whether even in DX9. it makes MORE sense to have a new higher performance series of cards come out that will be able to run DX9 in XP and be Vista ready.

As Akugami said, unless you have inside info (in which case you're probably under NDA??), what you're saying is speculation so I don't know who you're trying to convince with your CAPS and BOLD

You may be right, you may be wrong but I don't see why you have to convince everyone else that your opinion is right...
just use some common sense and look at what i am saying. it would make no sense to refresh a refresh(7800-7900) and what would they call it?? the 8 series is probably being put off a little bit but there is no way they are waiting until Vista is released 8 months from now. do you think Vista will come out then Nvidia will say oh now we have some DX10 cards. a lot of people will just upgrade their comps to Vista and would make more sense if there was already a DX10 capable card.

 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
just use some common sense and look at what i am saying. it would make no sense to refresh a refresh(7800-7900) and what would they call it?? the 8 series is probably being put off a little bit but there is no way they are waiting until Vista is released 8 months from now. do you think Vista will come out then Nvidia will say oh now we have some DX10 cards. a lot of people will just upgrade their comps to Vista and would make more sense if there was already a DX10 capable card.
1. It wouldn't make sense to release the DX10 cards too early. Most people are saying Nov-Dec, which is not 8 months as you keep saying.
2. You keep saying there is no refresh, and in the same breath you mention the 7950GX2... What do you think the 7950GX2 is? I'll give you a hint... /whisper It's a refresh...
3. Your "what would they call it" argument is ridiculous... Someone just posted a link with an .ini file containing a reference with a 7800 ZT, if they can seriously think of calling a card a 7800ZT, they will come up with something to call their top end card... Oh yeah, it's going to be called the "7950GX2"...
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,372
0
76
Another possibility is that there will not be any more refreshes, and both IHV's will just ride out the current gen until they release the new cards close to the holiday season, with or without Vista being ready. Well, maybe Ati will do a refresh of the r580 to increase their profit margins, but seems like Nvidia is doing well in sales and profits, so there's not a lot of pressure on them to release the g80 sooner than fall 2006. Unless, of course, they badly want to get in the lead and release a new card that trumps the r580 before Ati releases the r600.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: nitromullet
just use some common sense and look at what i am saying. it would make no sense to refresh a refresh(7800-7900) and what would they call it?? the 8 series is probably being put off a little bit but there is no way they are waiting until Vista is released 8 months from now. do you think Vista will come out then Nvidia will say oh now we have some DX10 cards. a lot of people will just upgrade their comps to Vista and would make more sense if there was already a DX10 capable card.
1. It wouldn't make sense to release the DX10 cards too early. Most people are saying Nov-Dec, which is not 8 months as you keep saying.
2. You keep saying there is no refresh, and in the same breath you mention the 7950GX2... What do you think the 7950GX2 is? I'll give you a hint... /whisper It's a refresh...
3. Your "what would they call it" argument is ridiculous... Someone just posted a link with an .ini file containing a reference with a 7800 ZT, if they can seriously think of calling a card a 7800ZT, they will come up with something to call their top end card... Oh yeah, it's going to be called the "7950GX2"...
1. the Nvidia cards will be out before Vista and i said Vista will be out in 8 months. Vista is slated for Jan 2007 for now.
2. i said in an earlier post that the 7950 is the last one we will see for the high end. we also knew that the 7950 was coming for a while.
3. they have almost ran out of names for the high end. lol. they would not have a 7950 if they were planning on anything faster in that series. the 7950 is basically just two underclocked 7900 cards put together anyway.
 

Cooler

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2005
3,835
0
0
Most gamers would not buy high end card now just for direct x 10 if it hurt direct x 9 profromance as most indicators show. As most games in the next year will be direct x 9 mostly. It would be almost foolish of ATI or Nvidia to rush these cards out if they can?t make sales on them and they could spend their time improving the chips and better yields. It has been proven at least for the ATI cards that 1900xtx has a lot of head room on gpu and its GDDR3 is clocked slower then Nvidia even thou it is rated at 1.1 ns. A refresh for ATI seems most likely and Nvidia will follow suit not wanting to be out done.
 
Apr 28, 2006
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The G80 is almost certainly coming out before Vista, but the R600 is Vista only... ATI is refreshing the x1900s, but they won't have a hybrid card.
 

toyota

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
12,957
1
0
Originally posted by: TAGImperialMarch
The G80 is almost certainly coming out before Vista, but the R600 is Vista only... ATI is refreshing the x1900s, but they won't have a hybrid card.
yep the R600 does look like it is DX10 from the ground up. i really was hoping Nvidia would have something special. unfortunately it looks like DX10 features were an afterthought for the G80.

 

buzzsaw13

Diamond Member
Apr 30, 2004
3,814
0
76
Originally posted by: alpha88
Originally posted by: satisfaction
When will geforce 8 be out?
There is no point if it isn't out by June-July.

1) A 7900GT isn't good enough to play games even at 1280*1024 without aa and af. So I am strongly against 7900GT.

I wouldn't expect it to be released until late August at the soonest.

I'm not sure what you are thinking, but my 7900GT runs every game I have at 1920x1200, with 16xAF (I don't use AA). It runs Oblivion wonderfully.

I don't really see Nvidia releasing the 8 series that fast either.

I also have a 7900GT and I run all my games full detail and full AA+AF just fine, and I play GRAW and Oblivion.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,018
2,235
126
Originally posted by: toyota
just use some common sense and look at what i am saying. it would make no sense to refresh a refresh(7800-7900) and what would they call it?? the 8 series is probably being put off a little bit but there is no way they are waiting until Vista is released 8 months from now. do you think Vista will come out then Nvidia will say oh now we have some DX10 cards. a lot of people will just upgrade their comps to Vista and would make more sense if there was already a DX10 capable card.

That's all fine and good and to be honest, I also believe the cards will come out before Vista...although I doubt a June/July release for G80. However, there's no point in continuing to argue with everyone that posts a different view. Say what you gotta say and leave it at that...no harm done if someone disgrees with you right??
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,389
8,547
126
Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Originally posted by: satisfaction
I have read that it is scheduled for June 2006.
How true is this?


At the absolute earliest, you'd think going on the every 6 month cycle that it would be August/September, but tbh, GeForce 8 will have to be DX10, and that will only be made available when Windows Vista comes out, which could be into 2007... more likely, another GeForce 7 card will come out inbetween, if required.

since when has nvidia been on a 6 month cycle? they left that when they hit the bleeding edge of lithograph techonology years ago
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,389
8,547
126
Originally posted by: toyota just use some common sense and look at what i am saying. it would make no sense to refresh a refresh(7800-7900) and what would they call it?? the 8 series is probably being put off a little bit but there is no way they are waiting until Vista is released 8 months from now. do you think Vista will come out then Nvidia will say oh now we have some DX10 cards. a lot of people will just upgrade their comps to Vista and would make more sense if there was already a DX10 capable card.

nvidia already has refreshed a refresh. an upgraded 7900 would be a refresh of a refresh of a refresh.
 

poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
5
81
Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

There is absolutely NO NEED to launch faster cards when they are just gearing up to pimp Quad-SLI......

....Why supply a product that has no demand?

rofl i was cracking up reading that. why supply the faster gf8 cause there's no demand but let's supply the quad-sli cause there's tons of demand for that?!?! quite the oxymoron me thinks.

 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,551
136
Originally posted by: poohbear
Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel

There is absolutely NO NEED to launch faster cards when they are just gearing up to pimp Quad-SLI......

....Why supply a product that has no demand?

rofl i was cracking up reading that. why supply the faster gf8 cause there's no demand but let's supply the quad-sli cause there's tons of demand for that?!?! quite the oxymoron me thinks.

I wouldn't say there is no demand but demand will only be there if there is an adequate performance boost. If the Geforce 8 series (and for that matter R600) showed at least a 20% performance boost over DX9 it will sell very well. The problem is that with both nVidia and ATI optimizing for DX10, I'm not sure that DX9 will receive more than a minor boost. After all, why optimize for yesterday's hardware and software when you can pimp the next generation?

SLI is a very minor percentage of the overall market. In fact, compared to integrated and lower end GPU sales, the high end market is itself a niche and SLI/Crossfire is a niche of a niche market. Dual GPU cards are at this point mostly a penis measurement. It's not that there isn't a tangible benefit but the cost and the added quirks make it unsuitable for most people.
 

Alex1

Junior Member
May 23, 2006
1
0
0
Hallo, i'm from Poland. If someone from Microsoft definitely said, that DX10 only works under Vista ? A few days ago in Europen press writing that probably DX10 will be work under XP Professional. What do you think about it?
 

josh6079

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2006
3,261
0
0
Your sentence structure is um...really awkward, but I think I get what you're saying.

If someone said that DX10 would work with XP Professional, then I would ask to see proof. Saying that a continental news mentioned such a thing isn't as convincing as showing that they did.

Honestly I highly doubt it can be done. Otherwise, why go to Vista? I'm sure they offer several things that improve OS's besides a coupled DX version, but that simple feature is what is going to drive a lot of buyers.
 
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