Originally posted by: piasabird
Bush will not veto a Partial Birth Abortion Bill.
Bush is not an Anti-War Protestor and he did not testify against his own countryman during or after the Viet Nam War.
Bush is much more intelligent than Kerry.
Originally posted by: conjur
1) It's spelled "swerve"
2) Kerry hasn't changed positions on the Iraq war. You've given in to the Bush rhetoric.
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Affirmative Action - It has its place at one time, but that time is ending soon.
It needs to be fine tuned, not elimenated
<It does need to be eliminated. It has no place in the world.>
Hate Crime Legislation - All crime is hate crime, I see no need to differentiate.
Then why oppose it? What harm will it do?
<Not a big deal to me. Just sounds like a tactic to get support from homosexuals and minorities.>
National Missile Defense - Sounds good to me. (I have a job-security stake in this fight, however)
Too expensive and not needed.
<Merely saying it's "not needed" doesn't make it so. It's absolutely needed.>
Drilling in ANWR - Why not?
I guess as long as it last for my lifetime, screw all those unborn kids, right!!
<Since when do you care about unborn children?>
Nationalized Health Care - I oppose big government.
I'd bet you have health insurance, huh
<Regardless, it's not the role of the government to provide it. Start a charitable orginization that accepts donations and provides health care for those who need it.>
Abortion - There better be a damn good reason to kill an unborn child.
I agree about the reason, but I wouldn't force anyone to have an unwanted child, as long as they make there mind up in a reasonable amount of time. For some reason this seems to be an everything or nothing issue to people??
<I wouldn't force anyone to have a child either. But if they already made the choice to do so, you must live with that decision. Killing is not the better alternative.>
Death Penalty - Play by the rules or take a hike.
I won't argue that one.
Gun Control - Logic of Second Amendment appeals to me.
I won't argue this one either.
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Yeah, lets put Enron and Ken Lay in charge of it. NOT!!
<This is a big one with me. I stand to get little to nothing with the money I put into SS. The return on your money is laughable. I don't have much money to invest in a retirement account, because the government forces me to invest in their low-return retirement plan. Give me the choice to invest for the future. Is this a communist country? The government tells me where I have to invest for my retirement?!?!?>
I like all of these. Every single one.
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Affirmative Action - It has its place at one time, but that time is ending soon.
It needs to be fine tuned, not elimenated
Have to agree here, but right now it preforms the opisite of what it was made for.
Hate Crime Legislation - All crime is hate crime, I see no need to differentiate.
Then why oppose it? What harm will it do?
umm, no thoughts here either, But really not what I quoted for.
National Missile Defense - Sounds good to me. (I have a job-security stake in this fight, however)
Too expensive and not needed.
Yes I think it is something that is needed, True the threat is not as real as it was during the cold war, but the best Def is a good Off. IMO
Drilling in ANWR - Why not?
I guess as long as it last for my lifetime, screw all those unborn kids, right!!
BAH! a SINGLE solar fluxuation does MORE damage to the earths Atomosphere then man has done in his entire existance. Sorry but there is no other reasion other then to keep things the same.
Nationalized Health Care - I oppose big government.
I'd bet you have health insurance, huh
And health insurance has what to do with the government? Im sorry but health insurance is something you should pay for, not be given.
Abortion - There better be a damn good reason to kill an unborn child.
I agree about the reason, but I wouldn't force anyone to have an unwanted child, as long as they make there mind up in a reasonable amount of time. For some reason this seems to be an everything or nothing issue to people??
If they don't want a child, then dont have sex. Sorry but it is an option contrary to populare belief. I think that endangering the mothers life, possibly rape, and sever birth defects that the parents just can't handle are the only reasons abortion should be an option. And even then I think it should be preformed only after careful consideration of the parents.
Death Penalty - Play by the rules or take a hike.
I won't argue that one.
ditto
Gun Control - Logic of Second Amendment appeals to me.
I won't argue this one either.
ditto
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Yeah, lets put Enron and Ken Lay in charge of it. NOT!!
ditto, dont put it in some companies hands, if there are companies that start up a social security like program then get ride of the governments interferance.
By standing with the President, Congress would demonstrate our Nation is united in its determination to take away that arsenal, and we are affirming the President's right and responsibility to keep the American people safe. One of the lessons I learned from fighting in a very different war, at a different time, is we need the consent of the American people for our mission to be legitimate and sustainable. I do know what it means, as does Senator Hagel, to fight in a war where that consent is lost, where allies are in short supply, where conditions are hostile, and the mission is ill-defined. That is why I believe so strongly before one American soldier steps foot on Iraqi soil, the American people must understand completely its urgency. They need to know we put our country in the position of ultimate strength and that we have no options, short of war, to eliminate a threat we could not tolerate.
Originally posted by: oldman420
well well we got a rise out you all this time thanks. but im realy hearing more bush bashing than valid reasons.........
i think at this point at least from these forums i cant find any good reasons to vote for bush.
i beleive actions speak louder than words and so far i am frankly freightened by bushes. on the other hand kerry is not established or expereinced.
rock and a hard place here.
thanks for all the input
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Affirmative Action - It has its place at one time, but that time is ending soon.
It needs to be fine tuned, not elimenated
<It does need to be eliminated. It has no place in the world.>
//No it doesn't
Hate Crime Legislation - All crime is hate crime, I see no need to differentiate.
Then why oppose it? What harm will it do?
<Not a big deal to me. Just sounds like a tactic to get support from homosexuals and minorities.>
//sounds like? It is.
National Missile Defense - Sounds good to me. (I have a job-security stake in this fight, however)
Too expensive and not needed.
<Merely saying it's "not needed" doesn't make it so. It's absolutely needed.>
//vice versa. We blew our wad on the war, we don't need a missle system at this time. No one is really powerful enough to threaten us. We would oblierate them and they know it.
Drilling in ANWR - Why not?
I guess as long as it last for my lifetime, screw all those unborn kids, right!!
<Since when do you care about unborn children?>
//Didn't answer the point. It's selfish to tap those resources right now. We need to explore alternative energy sources. Spend the money there instead of on a stupid missle system we don't need.
Nationalized Health Care - I oppose big government.
I'd bet you have health insurance, huh
<Regardless, it's not the role of the government to provide it. Start a charitable orginization that accepts donations and provides health care for those who need it.>
//LOL, right.
Abortion - There better be a damn good reason to kill an unborn child.
I agree about the reason, but I wouldn't force anyone to have an unwanted child, as long as they make there mind up in a reasonable amount of time. For some reason this seems to be an everything or nothing issue to people??
<I wouldn't force anyone to have a child either. But if they already made the choice to do so, you must live with that decision. Killing is not the better alternative.>
//I think it is a better alternative then forcing society to pay for it's upbringing, which will likely happen in most cases. It won't be much of an upbringing either. I really don't think too many people would decide to abort anyway, but it should be an option.
Death Penalty - Play by the rules or take a hike.
I won't argue that one.
Gun Control - Logic of Second Amendment appeals to me.
I won't argue this one either.
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Yeah, lets put Enron and Ken Lay in charge of it. NOT!!
<This is a big one with me. I stand to get little to nothing with the money I put into SS. The return on your money is laughable. I don't have much money to invest in a retirement account, because the government forces me to invest in their low-return retirement plan. Give me the choice to invest for the future. Is this a communist country? The government tells me where I have to invest for my retirement?!?!?>
//Screw your retirement, I only care about mine. I've paid into the damn thing forover 35 years and I DON'T trust the private sector with it.
I like all of these. Every single one.
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
He's not an Ultra Liberal Politician from Mass.
Originally posted by: Cogman
Originally posted by: oldman420
well well we got a rise out you all this time thanks. but im realy hearing more bush bashing than valid reasons.........
i think at this point at least from these forums i cant find any good reasons to vote for bush.
i beleive actions speak louder than words and so far i am frankly freightened by bushes. on the other hand kerry is not established or expereinced.
rock and a hard place here.
thanks for all the input
Some of the reasion are posted, but you should have expected this as this forum is fairly liberal.
Originally posted by: steeplerot
"Ultra" Liberal Kerry lol
Go read about the politics outside of Bushworld, you might be shocked.
Kerry is more moderate,
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: steeplerot
"Ultra" Liberal Kerry lol
Go read about the politics outside of Bushworld, you might be shocked.
Kerry is more moderate,
If you're going to quote facts, at least get them straight. It is widely accepted that Kerry is the #1 most liberal senator.
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: steeplerot
"Ultra" Liberal Kerry lol
Go read about the politics outside of Bushworld, you might be shocked.
Kerry is more moderate,
If you're going to quote facts, at least get them straight. It is widely accepted that Kerry is the #1 most liberal senator.
ANd if you don't believe Rob, then just ask Bush
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: steeplerot
"Ultra" Liberal Kerry lol
Go read about the politics outside of Bushworld, you might be shocked.
Kerry is more moderate,
If you're going to quote facts, at least get them straight. It is widely accepted that Kerry is the #1 most liberal senator.
ANd if you don't believe Rob, then just ask Bush
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Affirmative Action - It has its place at one time, but that time is ending soon.
Hopefully ending soon but now is not the time. We need to get more into the middle class so that they have a stake in our society and can form a base to bring many of the rest along. Not there yet.
Hate Crime Legislation - All crime is hate crime, I see no need to differentiate.
All crime is not hate crime. There is economic crime, power crime etc. Hate crime needs to be treated somewhat differently because that type of crime has the potential of creating inter-group warfare. Think of how gangs operate and you can see the potential.
National Missile Defense - Sounds good to me. (I have a job-security stake in this fight, however)
Was a joke during Reagans Brilliant Pebbles program and is still a joke. Basically a way of funneling money to defense contractors without expecting or getting results (because it is SO cutting edge). Currently even on a test range with the launch time and trajectory known, no spoofs and single shots only, the kill rate is 33%. Think about multiple ICBMs each with multiple warheads, each with multiple spoofs, launching at an unknown time from an unknown place and you begin to see the reality. The money is better spent elsewhere. Maybe flak jackets for those on the ground. Or ammo. Too low tech?
Drilling in ANWR - Why not?
The most extravagant estimates by Cheney's energy task force show that we can only expect the smallest bump in oil production from ANWR. Why not bite the bullet now rather than trashing it?
Nationalized Health Care - I oppose big government.
Bush has increased the size of government faster than any recent president. If you oppose big government you should take another look.
Abortion - There better be a damn good reason to kill an unborn child.
Personal morality. No use discussing this.
Death Penalty - Play by the rules or take a hike.
How can you be for protecting fetuses and against protecting adults? Given the number of pardons based on DNA and other evidence. Given the numerous examples of prosecutorial and law enforcement misconduct. Given the fact that it costs much more to execute than to imprison for life. Given that execution can not be reversed after it is done. Given that studies show no deterrent effect of capital punishment. Capital punishment should be abolished as almost all civilized nations have done.
Gun Control - Logic of Second Amendment appeals to me.
The second amendment "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is ambiguous. The notion that there is some absolute right to bear arms can be questioned. The Founders were talking about single shot, breech loading, slow to reload guns. We now have multiple (up to a 100 or so) shot semiautomatic guns. In our nation over 20,000 people per year die from firearms. Seems some regulation is reasonable and prudent.
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Have you been reading the news lately? The stock market scandals? The mutual fund scandals? The ripping off the company scandals? What chance do most investors have in competing against Wall Street trying to take their money? I would suggest that retirement money is better off where it is.
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Have you been reading the news lately? The stock market scandals? The mutual fund scandals? The ripping off the company scandals? What chance do most investors have in competing against Wall Street trying to take their money? I would suggest that retirement money is better off where it is.
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Affirmative Action - It has its place at one time, but that time is ending soon.
It needs to be fine tuned, not elimenated
>>> No, it had passed its useful life and has become more of a burden than a boon to everyone, even the minorities it was designed to protect.
Hate Crime Legislation - All crime is hate crime, I see no need to differentiate.
Then why oppose it? What harm will it do?
>>> Because it goes against the very idea that "all men are created equal." Hate crime laws place higher value on the lifes of certain victims based on things such as race, creed, sexual-orientation, etc. If we are truly equal, then the value of a life cannot be adjusted by such trivial things.
National Missile Defense - Sounds good to me. (I have a job-security stake in this fight, however)
Too expensive and not needed.
>>> Perhaps, but if you consider it as insurance, it is better to be safe, than sorry, no?
Drilling in ANWR - Why not?
I guess as long as it last for my lifetime, screw all those unborn kids, right!!
>>> Unborn kids? Were your grandchildren planning on setting up residence in the Artic? Drilling operations in the ANWR would have very little geological or ecological impact. We're talking about drilling for oil, not carpet-bombing caribou herds.
Nationalized Health Care - I oppose big government.
I'd bet you have health insurance, huh
>>> Yep. Pay for it out of my own pocket, too. It's not the government's duty to pay for your checkups. Should it buy you new shoes and footed-pajamas as well? Maybe tuck you in at night?
Abortion - There better be a damn good reason to kill an unborn child.
I agree about the reason, but I wouldn't force anyone to have an unwanted child, as long as they make there mind up in a reasonable amount of time. For some reason this seems to be an everything or nothing issue to people??
>>> No, I don't believe it to be an everything-or-nothing issue, but neither does the Bush administration. Rape, incest or to save the woman's life are valid reasons to consider an abortion. We are simply against the whole "it's a woman's choice" idea that seems to place a higher precedence over her "right" to choose versus the child's 'right' to live.
Death Penalty - Play by the rules or take a hike.
I won't argue that one.
>>> Good.
Gun Control - Logic of Second Amendment appeals to me.
I won't argue this one either.
>>> Getting more reasonable by the minute.
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Yeah, lets put Enron and Ken Lay in charge of it. NOT!!
>>> I know overgeneralizing can be fun and all, but you are aware that other corporations exist other than Enron and WorldCom, right? The government has screwed SS up royaly, and not even the worst accounting practices by the worst finincial institution could do much worse. My generation has nothing to lose, but quite a bit to gain.
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Social Security - Privatize some of it.
Have you been reading the news lately? The stock market scandals? The mutual fund scandals? The ripping off the company scandals? What chance do most investors have in competing against Wall Street trying to take their money? I would suggest that retirement money is better off where it is.
But as a citizen in a free country, I am entitled that freedom to make that risk. It's MY money. I earned it. Why does the government decide what I do with it for retirement? True, there has been many opportunities in the past few years to lose money in the stock market, and liberals are using that as ammunition for the non-privitization of SS. But not everyone has lost money in recent years. It's this attitude that I'm too stupid to know how to invest for my retirement, and I need the government to take care of me.
Talk softly but carry a big stick-Theodore Roosevelt
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: steeplerot
"Ultra" Liberal Kerry lol
Go read about the politics outside of Bushworld, you might be shocked.
Kerry is more moderate,
If you're going to quote facts, at least get them straight. It is widely accepted that Kerry is the #1 most liberal senator.
Originally posted by: steeplerot
Hmm and "widely" accepted by who? You? 1 or 2 of your co-workers?
That book you read with a white guy on it with a catchy name?
Rip's latest troll 'o the day? (Whatever guise he is under)
If you want to talk ultra liberal come see me sometime
I got some Socialist buddies with bigger boots then any Texan.
Who have no shame in saying they are left. talk "Liberal and Socialist" all day, distribute all those
socialist papers. These guys have no shame in saying it how it is from the left's point of view, matter of fact that's what they are best at since that's all they talk about.
Sharing ideas, about freedom and thinking outside the box to move the world forward,
Me, whatever. Socialist's rant a lot some ideas good some too extreme for even myself.
And there are lots of them too, VERY active, in the streets all over major cities.
They would eat Kerry for lunch in a debate. Bush would pee himself with confusion.
I have yet to hear about real issues from either side
-Too bad there are not more debates instead of mudslinging (P&N good example at how the media on TV and radio have played this out so far, what a joke this all is.
this county should be ashamed for these crap choices of presidents
and the lack of some hardcore debates when we have people dying
and the world views us in the light they do. And as a child of the 80's and raygun's cold war
I do not want to see Russia
being dicks to us NOW THAT P1SSES ME OFF#@#@!!!###@ WTF thanks for the new cold war!.)
*crosses fingers and readys the tinfoil for that one -Ihope I hope I hope it does not happen like that!*
My reason for you to vote for Bush would be if you want Armageddon that's about the only advantage I could see.
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: steeplerot
Hmm and "widely" accepted by who? You? 1 or 2 of your co-workers?
That book you read with a white guy on it with a catchy name?
Rip's latest troll 'o the day? (Whatever guise he is under)
If you want to talk ultra liberal come see me sometime
I got some Socialist buddies with bigger boots then any Texan.
Who have no shame in saying they are left. talk "Liberal and Socialist" all day, distribute all those
socialist papers. These guys have no shame in saying it how it is from the left's point of view, matter of fact that's what they are best at since that's all they talk about.
Sharing ideas, about freedom and thinking outside the box to move the world forward,
Me, whatever. Socialist's rant a lot some ideas good some too extreme for even myself.
And there are lots of them too, VERY active, in the streets all over major cities.
They would eat Kerry for lunch in a debate. Bush would pee himself with confusion.
I have yet to hear about real issues from either side
-Too bad there are not more debates instead of mudslinging (P&N good example at how the media on TV and radio have played this out so far, what a joke this all is.
this county should be ashamed for these crap choices of presidents
and the lack of some hardcore debates when we have people dying
and the world views us in the light they do. And as a child of the 80's and raygun's cold war
I do not want to see Russia
being dicks to us NOW THAT P1SSES ME OFF#@#@!!!###@ WTF thanks for the new cold war!.)
*crosses fingers and readys the tinfoil for that one -Ihope I hope I hope it does not happen like that!*
My reason for you to vote for Bush would be if you want Armageddon that's about the only advantage I could see.
Umm.. yeah. Good luck with all that..