Good APU build?

[mfenn]

You can keep pushing this point, but the fact remains that Intel remains more power efficient, better per clock, doesn't require more expensive RAM, and doesn't need Crossfire (which is gimmicky, stuttery, and often fails) to perform.

If you're getting more expensive RAM and a dGPU, you're only $10-20 off getting Intel+iGPU anyway, which is simpler and works better.

Listen, you can keep advertising Kaveri, but the truth is, Intel is planning to make the same rate of CPU advances and is ahead already; furthermore, Intel's massive budget means I know Intel will deliver, while AMD's smaller size and budget means that they may not.

I'm all for AMD GPUs, but APUs are just not a good idea outside of mobile space.

Agree, not to mention that Kaveri is an as yet unreleased product. Why on earth would you buy a stopgap part and plan to upgrade when you could get the CPU performance (Core i3) and the GPU performance (GCN) today?

Stated another way, Kaveri at best will bring the system to parity with today's low end dGPU. And that would be succeeding beyond AMD's wildest dreams. Why on earth would you place a bet on an upgrade path with uncertain performance when the same expenditure could get you equivalent performance today?

 

[MightyMalus]

Why on earth would you buy a stopgap part and plan to upgrade when you could get the CPU performance (Core i3) and the GPU performance (GCN) today?

Because it goes with what I said I was interested in, on the first page and tittle of my thread.

Stated another way, Kaveri at best will bring the system to parity with today's low end dGPU.

...so?

I don't understand the fanatical attitude here. Complete lack of respect.
And I don't mean just you mfenn.



For INSTANCE:

Topic says "APU".
I asked help for "my" build.
Said I wanted the FM2 socket.
Said I preferred AMD.
Said I was interested in HSA and OCL.
Said I would probably OC the GPU and RAM.
Said I would use a 720p/1080p LCD TV.
Stated that I would stick with the FM2/APU system.

How did everyone completely miss all of that and started an Intel vs AMD argument is beyond me.

Heck, a few questions that I asked were completely ignored.

(Unrelated to the above sentence)
Was my build a good APU build? Never answered. The actual topic, the actual importance of the thread was never answered.

I will thank that one or two, for pointing me in the right direction for PSU's.
And that one, for pointing me to Anandtech Bench.
And for who ever else, and only when, they said or thought me something useful.

 

[mfenn]

When somebody disagrees with you and posts logic and evidence to back up their claims, that does not make them a fanatic. Somebody who clings to a belief in the face of reason and evidence is a fanatic.

Furthermore, on an Internet forum, you don't get to choose what kinds of responses you get, especially not on one with members as savvy and experienced as AT:GH. People will look at your overall build relative to your intended use and give you advice on how well the two fit together. We are not your paid consultants, you do not get to set the parameters of the discussion. We are an open community of individuals and will discuss as we wish.

If you're not interested in receiving honest, objective advice and simply want confirmation of your pre-existing ideas, then I don't know what to say to you. Most people here totally open to debating a point (any point), but we will require evidence and logic to change our minds.

 

[MightyMalus]

Logic and Evidence?
I was recommended a whole new build!
Like, even the case was changed. -.-''
That was the first reply.

Like wanting to make a cake and being told to do a pie instead. Erm, hello?

But, Logic and Evidence.
Point is, any APU, A4 to A10 has OpenCL 1.2 support. Intel? 1.1
No need for a GPU.
No GPU = less to deal with.
Less cost.(If I wanted it, I would get it and still stick to the APU, might be able to dual it later on.)
And more budget towards better parts or a better case, which I did get help with, mostly.

When somebody disagrees with you and posts logic and evidence to back up their claims, that does not make them a fanatic. Somebody who clings to a belief in the face of reason and evidence is a fanatic.

mfenn, no one actually disagreed with me.
You see, I wrote "Good APU build?". Fanatics see "Good build?".
Big difference. Too big of a difference for fanatics to see.

Evidence and Logic was never given, from the simple fact that the main point was completely ignored. Very fanatical I would say.

But I did learn quite a bit.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Okay, I think I get it. You want an APU build, for reason X (HSA, I believe, for compute purposes). We're saying that purely for computing purposes, it'd be better to go Intel and a discrete graphics card--at the cost of a cheaper case and so on.

You decided on AMD despite all that, which is acceptable, I suppose. What we find curious is simply that you would rather have a pretty case than have the computer actually be good at what you want it to do. But if you insist: your original build is pretty good for an A10 (the fast RAM it needs, a solid motherboard). If you need GPU compute power, you pretty much have to go with the APU since the FX line doesn't offer as much GPU power built in. The only thing I would say is excessive is the PSU and the case.

You probably don't need a Platinum PSU. Gold gets you nearly the same benefit for much less--even if electricity is expensive, you should do the math for savings before committing to a more expensive purchase. Can you give your electricity costs per watt before I absolutely recommend one way or another?

Also: I realize that the case is important to you. But do consider a smaller case just because the case doesn't help with your computing and gaming much, and an mATX board and mATX case will cost less to ship, possibly by a significant amount. I think you were considering one before that argument broke out?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

If you need GPU compute power, you pretty much have to go with the APU since the FX line doesn't offer as much GPU power built in. The only thing I would say is excessive is the PSU and the case.

Just for the record the FX-series does not have an integrated GPU. Integrated GPU in AM3(+)'s case means either the old 785G/880G/890GX (HD42xx/DX10.1) or the even older 760G/780G (HD3xxx/DX10). Neither has support for OpenCL...

 

[MightyMalus]

Can you give your electricity costs per watt before I absolutely recommend one way or another?

Its .29 per kWh. Your link for your recommended PSU didn't work for me, which one did you recommend? At the moment I switched to the Seasonic G SSR 550w,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151119
But I'm still considering a Platinum model.

Also: I realize that the case is important to you. But do consider a smaller case just because the case doesn't help with your computing and gaming much, and an mATX board and mATX case will cost less to ship, possibly by a significant amount. I think you were considering one before that argument broke out?

Yes, I took your advice on the smaller case. That Temjin TJ08-E looks nice. But the Fortress FT03S looks incredible.

Their Redline: http://www.newegg.com/Produc/Product...82E16811163227 (ATX/mATX)
caught me eye, but it comes with only one fan. Added some and the price quickly increased.

At the moment, looking for more info on the Temjin and Cooler sizes.
Anything like that Fortress FT03S out there?

Precision Series! Hmm, the 07 looks better than the 08. Gonna check those out more.

Temjin 08-E and Precision 07 look very similar inside. I prefer the non visual front fans also. Cleaner look.

Still, that FT03S...I'll see what I can do.

 

[redtruthseeker]

I am just defending the APU build and I suggested if you decide to spend more...

Go make a build on partpicker, it can also say if something is not compatible if you want that board that has a USB 3.0 and then you can't use it on your case, just saying.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Let's see: your whole computer should suck up 120W at most (the APU has a TDP of 100W, and fans or HDDs take up only around 5W each at most).

At that load level, the 550W Fortress is 90% efficient. The Seasonic G550 is 88% efficient at the same load. The Corsair CX430 is 82% efficient (pulled from Techpowerup reviews and JonnyGURU reviews). These results are from a hot PSU when possible (30 degrees Celsius).

That means the Fortress takes 133.33W (0.038667 cents per hour). The G550 takes 136.36W (0.03955 cents per hour). And the CX430 takes 146.34W (0.04244 cents per hour). You'd have to run at full load for 647.99 DAYS (yes, 24/7 for 648 days) to recoup the cost difference between the CX430 and the G550, and this is without counting the rebate.

But that's not very realistic. If you assume a typical need of roughly 50W, the picture is much different. The CX430 gets 72%. The G550 gets 80%. And the Fortress gets 82%. Running the same calculations as before, we find that it takes 931 days to make up the cost difference between the CX430 and the G550.

Most people only have the computers on for 4 hours a day though, so figure on things taking 144 6 times as many days to make up the cost if you use it for only 4 hours a day (between 200 and 300 10-15 years of use at four hours of use a day).

 

[DominionSeraph]

Because it goes with what I said I was interested in, on the first page and tittle of my thread.

Well then get an Intel APU like the i3 or i5, and add a discrete card. That's a good APU build.

If you want a bad one, I can give you one with an AMD APU and, say, PATA RAID?

 

[DominionSeraph]

Most people only have the computers on for 4 hours a day though, so figure on things taking 144 as many days to make up the cost if you use it for only 4 hours a day (between 200 and 300 years of use at four hours of use a day).

If you figure a day is 576 hours long...

At 24 hours, it's 6 times longer.

 

[redtruthseeker]

He can get a A10 5700 that has a TDP of 65watts and it costs 1$ less or he could get a A10 5800k and tweak it to work as A10 5700 and if he wants to OC and that he can get it back up to a A10 5800k.

 

[Sleepingforest]

If you figure a day is 576 hours long...

At 24 hours, it's 6 times longer.

Err... Yeah, you're right. Sorry, my brain gets friend from all the unit cancellation. Before it was in days, so multiply by 24 to get to a unit of hours. Divide by 4, to get an ultimate multiplier of 6.

But the rest of the math was right. It's more than 10 years though, so he'll pretty much never make up the difference. I'll fix my old post with strikethroughs.

 

[MightyMalus]

Alright...things took a bit of a change. Went for the mITX form factor.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Idkl

The external drive that I chose in newegg is not in part picker. Its this one, (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151262)
And I would like some help in that, anything cheaper?

I went with an external because Internal slim slot ones are quite expensive, it seems.
And, I don't actually use them...

So, something cheaper would be nice? I'm $13 bucks over what I wanted, but that's manageable.

Another would be, are there any other companies that do does small PSU's? Exactly like the one I picked or smaller and fully modular? Or better! Jeje
I couldn't find anything from Seasonic. =/

 

[Sleepingforest]

Did you look at the costs from Newegg alone, with shipping to reach that number?

The case you chose is very nice, but would you consider a different case to allow for more variety in PSUs? The Fractal Node 304 is mATX and allows 160mm PSUs, which allows for the larger Seasonic PSUs to fit. It costs much less and is a roomier build.

Also, a cost analysis of your chosen PSU (either the Seasonic G550 or the Silverstone Strider) vs the $45 Corsair shows that you'd have to let the computer run for around 14600 hours before recouping the costs of the more expensive unit in electricity savings. That's 10 years of 4 hour workdays, or just shy of 2 years of being on 24/7/365.

Finally, if you liked the Redline so much, don't be bothered by the fact that it only has one fan. One fan is perfectly adequate to cool a computer (in fact, mine has only 1 fan on the case).

Also, search "External CD drive" on Ebay. The first result is $16 and has free shipping, including shipping to Puerto Rico (disclaimer: I'm not the seller and do not know the seller in any way).

 

[mfenn]

Logic and Evidence?
I was recommended a whole new build!
Like, even the case was changed. -.-''
That was the first reply.

Like wanting to make a cake and being told to do a pie instead. Erm, hello?

Yes, because pie is better for what you want to do.

But, Logic and Evidence.

Good, actual points follow!

Point is, any APU, A4 to A10 has OpenCL 1.2 support. Intel? 1.1

Sleepingforest's build included a 7770, which also supports OpenCL 1.2. As an added bonus, the 7770 is a GCN chip, which is far superior to the VLIW5 shaders found in the Trinity iGPU. AMD has very clearly indicated that VLIW is dead and gone, so learning to program that instead of a GCN is kind of a waste.

No need for a GPU.
No GPU = less to deal with.

Sure, there is one less card to plug in. But you also lose a ton of gaming and compute performance and have less parts for troubleshooting and fallback.

Something goes wrong with the IGP? You have the GPU to work with.
Something goes wrong with the GPU? You have the IGP to work with.

Less cost.(If I wanted it, I would get it and still stick to the APU, might be able to dual it later on.)

Actually, SF's build cost $178 less than what you proposed. Shipping would not make up the difference.

And more budget towards better parts or a better case, which I did get help with, mostly.

That's a fair point, and with over $100 to play with from SF's base build, you have plenty of options.

mfenn, no one actually disagreed with me.
You see, I wrote "Good APU build?". Fanatics see "Good build?".
Big difference. Too big of a difference for fanatics to see.

Evidence and Logic was never given, from the simple fact that the main point was completely ignored. Very fanatical I would say.

In the very first reply SleepingForest said "It's a bit expensive for an APU build. When I think APU, I think <$400 (totally possible). If you're willing to to spend over $500, you're getting into Intel+7770 territory". This directly addresses why we don't think that an APU build makes sense for you. All subsequent posts build on this base.

Or perhaps you saw that he had done a completely different build and ignored everything else he had to say? (See? Baseless accusations don't help anybody.)

But I did learn quite a bit.

Great!

 

[MightyMalus]

Did you look at the costs from Newegg alone, with shipping to reach that number?

Yes, total is almost $713.

The case you chose is very nice, but would you consider a different case to allow for more variety in PSUs?

Totally set on this one.

Also, a cost analysis of your chosen PSU (either the Seasonic G550 or the Silverstone Strider) vs the $45 Corsair shows that you'd have to let the computer run for around 14600 hours before recouping the costs of the more expensive unit in electricity savings. That's 10 years of 4 hour workdays, or just shy of 2 years of being on 24/7/365.

I hope to use this case and the PSU that I end up with for as long as possible.
And it will be on for as much as possible.

I was actually gonna go for the even more expensive FT03, but I found that this one was an upgrade to the tiny flaws of the other one. The design...perfect. For me.

I was just wondering if there were more PSU's around in that SFX form.

Actually, when I wrote before I just had looked that it has all the "protections" that Seasonic PSU's have. Its used by very expensive gaming mITX rigs and every review claims to be great. And it seems that there is no competition against it...weird for me since I thought mITX rigs were being pretty desirable.

Also, search "External CD drive" on Ebay.

I don't know about Ebay...once bought something "new", ended up being used and partially broken. -.-''

By the way, I will be MIA till late Sunday. "I'll be back."
Gracias!

 

[Sleepingforest]

Okay, if you're dead set. Silverstone pretty much dominates the small form factor PSU market. Nobody I know of makes the same quality of unit at that size. So if you're happy and it costs what you want, go for it.

On the issue of the CD drive: That user on Ebay has very good ratings, but if you insist, you'll have to pay more through Newegg.

Good luck getting everything in a timely fashion and in once piece. Shipping to Puerto Rico is likely not very gentle. I hope you enjoy building and using it despite initial frustrations with the forum.