Good APU build?

[MightyMalus]

what about FX 6300 build will cost the same and be future proof

I'll take a quick look into it but the case must be a mid tower for it and that drives the cost quite a bit! There is no AM3+ mATX mobos, that I know of...

 

[redtruthseeker]

You people only mention A10 5800k and A8 5600k that are unlocked APU's made for overclocking so they spend more watts while lets say A10 5700 spends around 65 watts and it performs almost a 5800k that is made for overclocking.

If you don't plan to overclock get the A10 5700 because 5800k is just a SKU that is made for overclocking thus it spends considerably more.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Using filters on Newegg is an educational experience. There's the AM3+ mATX mobos.

I still think an i3 is better for compiling due to the single threaded performance, and anything OpenCL based will do better on the 7750 than the A10. Plus, it's roughly $700 with shipping ($600 before). The 450W 80+ Gold PSU is good enough to power a 670 or 7950, which are close to top end graphics cards--if you go Intel (Intel CPUs consume much less power).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

There is no AM3+ mATX mobos, that I know of...

There are plenty actually...

Asrock
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/880GMHU3S3/
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/880GM-LE FX/
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/960GM-VGS3 FX/
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/960GMU3S3 FX/

ASUS
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/M5A88M_EVO/
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/M5A88M/
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/M5A78LMUSB3/
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/M5A78LM_LE/

Gigabyte
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4239#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4000#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4311#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4305#ov
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4305#

 

[Torn Mind]

You people only mention A10 5800k and A8 5600k that are unlocked APU's made for overclocking so they spend more watts while lets say A10 5700 spends around 65 watts and it performs almost a 5800k that is made for overclocking.

If you don't plan to overclock get the A10 5700 because 5800k is just a SKU that is made for overclocking thus it spends considerably more.

Lowering clockspeed via the multiplier on the "K" processors is all you need to do to transform them into their non-K sibling. TDP measures how much heat the cooling solution is supposed to dissipate, I think.

Lowering VCore voltage also reduces consumption, but too much can lead to instability. Make sure to stress test.

 

[sm625]

I have to strenuously recommend against dropping that kind of coin for a system with an integrated GPU. If you want a satisfactory computing + casual gaming experience, something that lasts for years, then you want a discrete video card. Take all the APU reviews and flush them down the toilet because they are all worthless. See this post for more info.

 

[MightyMalus]

There are plenty actually...

Did you check the chipsets and reviews of the mATX mobos?

(I'm guessing that I won't have a problem with that PSU on that Case?)




Anyways, I feel that the FM2 platform will give me enough.
5800k fits, my needs for now. And future upgrade won't be much at all.

An i7 3770k is at $330.
An i7 2700k(!!!) is at $355.

In two years, I can get another mobo+apu+ram for that or less.

I have to strenuously recommend against dropping that kind of coin for a system with an integrated GPU. If you want a satisfactory computing + casual gaming experience, something that lasts for years, then you want a discrete video card. Take all the APU reviews and flush them down the toilet because they are all worthless. See this post for more info.

I have seen many gameplay videos of a 5800k setup, many benchmarks with different RAM frequencies. OC iGPU and not. And believe me. Its more than enough for my gameplay needs.

Its my first build, it will be the most expensive and It's shipping oversea so it costs more also.
This is at less than $700 total at the moment.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yes, those are indeed Intel chips. But that's not always the case. Did you somehow also overlook the $130 i3-3220 and $190 i5-3470, which have better performance per clock than AMD chips at the same price? Did you overlook the fact that you'll probably need a new chipset for the next generation of APU to fully function (add in the extra cost of a motherboard) and won't for an Ivy Bridge i5?

 

[MightyMalus]

Yes, those are indeed Intel chips. But that's not always the case. Did you somehow also overlook the $130 i3-3220 and $190 i5-3470, which have better performance per clock than AMD chips at the same price? Did you overlook the fact that you'll probably need a new chipset for the next generation of APU to fully function (add in the extra cost of a motherboard) and won't for an Ivy Bridge i5?

"No", I meant to say that that in 1~2 years if I want to update the i3 there as incredible probability that the i7 3770K will be at around the $300 mark, as is the i7 2700k right now.

While on the FM2 side, maybe I won't need to upgrade the motherboard for Kaveri, and I get features. And If I do, I'll probably end up paying near the amount for everything "needed" that I would for an i7 3770k alone. Like right now the mobo+apu+2133RAM is like $250 total. I don't think this will change much in the future unless AMD pulls out a magic bullet.

That's how I saw it.

EDIT: Wrote "yes"...I actually mean "No", I did not overlook that. lol

 

[redtruthseeker]

APU option is valid and cheaper, you can upgrade to Richland this month when it gets released and go Dual Graphics when you buy some Radeon HD 7xxx series card that is compatible for Hybrid CrossfireX... So yea.

Currently if you want a very good Trinity build and great chip compatibility with Richland that with CPU, Motherboard, RAM and GPU would be a total of 434$ if you want to go full quality use the full potential of Trinity and Dual Graphics and have a 2133mhz DDR3 CL9 2x4 Gb RAM that is great for Richland and a motherboard's chip that will use most out of the Richland when it come's out and Richland is basicaly a Trinity 2.0 but with out of the box 2133mhz DDR3 RAM support and Dual Graphics with Radeon HD 7xxx series.

 

[Sleepingforest]

"No", I meant to say that that in 1~2 years if I want to update the i3 there as incredible probability that the i7 3770K will be at around the $300 mark, as is the i7 2700k right now.

While on the FM2 side, maybe I won't need to upgrade the motherboard for Kaveri, and I get features. And If I do, I'll probably end up paying near the amount for everything "needed" that I would for an i7 3770k alone. Like right now the mobo+apu+2133RAM is like $250 total. I don't think this will change much in the future unless AMD pulls out a magic bullet.

That's how I saw it.

EDIT: Wrote "yes"...I actually mean "No", I did not overlook that. lol

This is true to an extent, but what you fail to realize is that a $190 Ivy Bridge i5 from today is so far ahead of Trinity and its predicted sucessor that it doesn't make much sense. To give you a clue, Trinity is like a Pentium in computing power.

 

[MightyMalus]

For Richland to be compatible with HD77** cards it must be based on GCN architecture. I don't think I will wait for Richland or upgrade to it. I'll tune up the 5800K and it should roll just fine.

If MORE news about Richland would come up about its supposed March launch, I would wait...but AMD is being way too quite for my taste and no systems with it are announced? Erm...supposed to be out in two weeks?

Kaveri on the other hand, I do see myself using it.

This is true to an extent, but what you fail to realize is that a $190 Ivy Bridge i5 from today is so far ahead of Trinity and its predicted sucessor that it doesn't make much sense. To give you a clue, Trinity is like a Pentium in computing power.

Not when it comes to the gpu and its features. My main interest.

(I didn't want to point this out and I am greatful for all the help, but, the title for the thread I made is called "Good APU build?". Should I say more?)

 

[Sleepingforest]

Right. The Trinity is better at GPU. But a dedicated GPU, even the very basic 7750, is 50% faster, AND you can get it in the same budget if you just trimmed some fat (case, for example). I've posted a $600 build before shipping--with shipping, around $700-750.

I just don't see why you insist on an APU when Intel+dGPU, which is superior in every metric except possibly power consumption, can fit within the budget.

 

[frozentundra123456]

This is true to an extent, but what you fail to realize is that a $190 Ivy Bridge i5 from today is so far ahead of Trinity and its predicted sucessor that it doesn't make much sense. To give you a clue, Trinity is like a Pentium in computing power.

I strongly agree with you about APUs on the desktop. Trintiy is attractive in laptops where it is not easy to add a discrete card, but much less so in desktops which need either good cpu or gpu performance. But I think the OP has made up his mind and will not accept arguments to the contrary. I do agree for what it is worth that an i5 plus discrete card now will give better performance than any APU for the foreseeable future and can be easily upgraded if needed by simply upgrading the graphics card.

 

[MightyMalus]

The problem I see for the Intel is in the cost of upgrading. Not only is a new socket coming in a few months but the old high end SVB is still over $300. And then with the dGPU, how will I sell it later on? I find it much easier to sell an apu+mobo+ram if needed than just a gpu.

I'm more into the "later" than the right now, simply because "anything" I buy now will be minimum twice better in CPU and more in gpu than my laptop.

That's why I went with good quality parts overall. Which is what I wanted the most help with. I even contemplated the A8-5600k, gonna check the PSU again, maybe go 100w lower and the case I am not sure, I did really like the Temjin. I found a Rosewill Armor EVO which I like but "everyone" complains about its quality. And the RAM, can all RAM's get too 2133mhz? The RAM I found is only like $4 more expensive than the 18**Mhz one.

All responses have been helpful, but I would like help on my build.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Wait... How will selling 3 parts (RAM APU and mobo) be easier than selling one (GPU)?

And the upgrade path isn't that expensive. What you forget is that while A10 is the top of the FM2 socket, i3 is pretty close to the bottom of the Intel line. No need for a new mobo--just pop in the i5/i7 from the same generation, the same way you'd put in a new A10.

 

[MightyMalus]

And the upgrade path isn't that expensive.

I posted the numbers. An i7 2700k or the i7 3770k are over $300 in Newegg.
How old is the 2700k? Its still(!) over $300. With that amount I can get a brand new APU+Mobo+Ram combo if needed.

(5800k = $130 + Mobo = $65(my pick) + 2133MhzRam = $65. Total = $260)

I could sell the APU as a system for much cheaper by using cheaper parts than the ones that I am getting. That is, if its needed. Kaveri is an unknown. Haswell is an obvious new mobo.

I'm not saying Intel isn't great at what it does, it is, incredibly, but its quite expensive. Plus, that's one less hardware to worry about, the GPU.

Heck, I just saw an A6-5400k being used to play LoL...will look into it more tomorrow and see how that lil APU does compared to the other APU's.

One question tho, among all the others from above...Is there a good place for "Real World" reviews? You know, not just benchmarks.

Thanks

 

[Sleepingforest]

There is: the Anandtech Bench. It's a compiled set of real world tasks and synthetics.

Also: I think you misunderstand the point about Intel. The i3 beats a Trinity APU already in compute tasks. You can upgrade to a $200 i5 for the same price as the AMD APU.

Think of it this way:

Right now:
5800k = $130 + Mobo = $65(my pick) + 2133MhzRam = $65. Total = $260
i3 = $130 + mobo = $65 + 1600MHz RAM = $45 + 7750 = $100. Total = $345

But, the i3 is 20-25% faster, and the 7750 is 2-3 times faster.
The next generation:
Another APU = $130 total = $390 across both generations

Nothing new on the Intel side = $345 still

And Intel is still performing better than the APUs since the next generation of APUs is only a 15% or so increase in ability.

 

[mfenn]

There is: the Anandtech Bench. It's a compiled set of real world tasks and synthetics.

Also: I think you misunderstand the point about Intel. The i3 beats a Trinity APU already in compute tasks. You can upgrade to a $200 i5 for the same price as the AMD APU.

Think of it this way:

Right now:
5800k = $130 + Mobo = $65(my pick) + 2133MhzRam = $65. Total = $260
i3 = $130 + mobo = $65 + 1600MHz RAM = $45 + 7750 = $100. Total = $345

But, the i3 is 20-25% faster, and the 7750 is 2-3 times faster.
The next generation:
Another APU = $130 total = $390 across both generations

Nothing new on the Intel side = $345 still

And Intel is still performing better than the APUs since the next generation of APUs is only a 15% or so increase in ability.

This. Why would you care about the IGP on the Core i3 when you have a discrete 7750 with all the GCN features that you could want?

 

[Torn Mind]

An i7 suffers from diminishing returns to scale performance-wise compared to the i5. Most of the extra performance in the i7 comes from HyperThreading, and unless you do stuff that is really thread hungry, the benefits are not big at best. An SSD would put the price difference between an i7-3770K and an i5-3470 to better use.

Ultimately, a CPU is evaluated based on its ability to execute tasks in a certain amount of time. Cores, clockspeed, and IPC(instructions per clock) are the three major components in that measure. The A10 is remarkably similar to the Core 2 Quad Q9650. I would not expect the Kaveri to catch up to the Ivy Bridge i5s though, since I do not expect much clockspeed gains and I don't think there will be a Netburst to Conroe jump in IPC. With an i5, you don't have to upgrade the CPU at all at the time Kaveri comes out.

Alas, if only you had an $800 budget. You could have an i5+7750 would have been feasible and wouldn't have had to worry about upgrading for a while and paying even more shipping charges in the process.

 

[redtruthseeker]

I agree with some points that you guys that prefer Intel pointed out, but...

If he had an 800$ bugdet he could afford FX 6300 or 8350 that are good for gaming and video editing and also streaming, FX series have own version of HyperThreading that is better but as for single thread applications and some games its worse than i5/i7 k's...

All next generation console's use AMD's GPU's so you can expect great optimization and its a must have for the industry right now, AMD's CPU is in PlayStation 4 so we can expect some optimization while Wii U and Xbox 720 have IBM CPU so Intel is out totally.

APU's are the future and I would not be suprised if AMD decides to make APU processors more mainstream when Kaver gets out with DDR4 RAM support, Richland will support/compatible with Radeon HD 7xxx series GPU's and that was confirmed from Tom's Hardware since Richland APU's will have Radeon HD 8xxx series based GPU's ...

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Richland-APU-iGPU-Clock-Speeds-Specs,20748.html

You can get a cheaper 2133mhz DDR3 RAM, but if you plan to do video rendering then 2133mhz DDR3 RAM with CL9(Cas Latency) will be helpfull. Just get the RAM that I suggested, Richland APU's will love it, anyway I hope you will get that motherboard that I suggested since its A85X chip will suit Richland very well because of much similarities to Trinity. Successor to A85X chipset is A88X that will be optimal for Richland and since if you get A85X you are from the get go using most out of Richland when you upgrade.

When you upgrade to Richland you will only need an BIOS update, thats all...

A10/A8 5XXXx + Radeon HD 6670 1gb DDR3 Dual Graphics = Radeon HD 7770 performance

 

[Sleepingforest]

You can keep pushing this point, but the fact remains that Intel remains more power efficient, better per clock, doesn't require more expensive RAM, and doesn't need Crossfire (which is gimmicky, stuttery, and often fails) to perform.

If you're getting more expensive RAM and a dGPU, you're only $10-20 off getting Intel+iGPU anyway, which is simpler and works better.

Listen, you can keep advertising Kaveri, but the truth is, Intel is planning to make the same rate of CPU advances and is ahead already; furthermore, Intel's massive budget means I know Intel will deliver, while AMD's smaller size and budget means that they may not.

I'm all for AMD GPUs, but APUs are just not a good idea outside of mobile space.

 

[Torn Mind]

Upgrading always has overhead costs. It's another $20 shipping to Puerto Rico just to buy another CPU from Newegg, and we don't know the MSRP yet. Reselling the old CPU on the used market will land a $15 loss at least, and that's assuming you just use craigslist and don't have to pay fees and/or shipping by selling online via Ebay or Amazon Marketplace. Kaveri should work with FM2, though.

I just don't see an optimal path with either getting the i3 or A10 and then upgrading in the near future, so get what you want. The i5 solution would have been better at staving off upgrading, but it is over budget.

 

[redtruthseeker]

Kaveri APU will be the ultimate one, EA Dice got a sweet suprise from AMD. A CPU equiped with Kabini or most likely Kaveri APU and RAM. It is rumored to support GDDR5 RAM and I think that will be "expensive" option but you will get more bang for a buck in the end result.

If GDDR5 RAM speculation is true, I expect it to be integrated into the motherboard and I also expect an alternative for a Kaveri, a motherboard with DDR4 support and Its most likely while GDDR5 version is for enthusiasts probavly. This could also be a dev kit for PlayStation 4 if they decided to use Kaveri ! >_>

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Kaveri_APU_Supports_GDDR5_Memory_Report.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Already-Ships-Kabini-Kaveri-APUs-to-Developers-334385.shtml

 

[Torn Mind]

Kaveri APU will be the ultimate one, EA Dice got a sweet suprise from AMD. A CPU equiped with Kabini or most likely Kaveri APU and RAM. It is rumored to support GDDR5 RAM and I think that will be "expensive" option but you will get more bang for a buck in the end result.

If GDDR5 RAM speculation is true, I expect it to be integrated into the motherboard and I also expect an alternative for a Kaveri, a motherboard with DDR4 support and Its most likely while GDDR5 version is for enthusiasts probavly. This could also be a dev kit for PlayStation 4 if they decided to use Kaveri ! >_>

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._Kaveri_APU_Supports_GDDR5_Memory_Report.html

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Already-Ships-Kabini-Kaveri-APUs-to-Developers-334385.shtml

The OP will have to upgrade the CPU+motherboard wholesale since GDDR5 requires the CPU to be soldered on, as per the first article. And he will be getting 4GBs of GDDR5 max until they come out with bigger RAM modules. I do not know if the desktop market is quite ready to embrace BGA chips just yet.
Forget it, I didn't read it right.