Good Bye, Ashli Babbitt

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Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,735
9,625
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- Politics isn't Science, no matter how much Political Scientists wish it so. There is no testable hypothesis around metaphysical crap like "abortion bad" or "Big Government = Tyranny".

I guess my analogy doesn't really work for that reason.

In my defense I've been drinking pretty steadily since 4pm PST and haven't let up yet 7 hours later.


I'm not saying Poli Sci isn't a legit field, but it _is_ a seriously stupid name for whatever it is they do. Political Studies would probably be better, if less prestigious-sounding.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,735
9,625
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Threads like this only indicate there will be civil war at some point in this country. Stock up on your guns. You're gonna need them.

I don't think it's "threads like this" that indicate that, so much as angry mobs attacking the seat of government. That seems a more significant 'indicator'. Though I still think on balance it's not going to happen.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,537
1,103
126
So if they'd reached that part of the building in numbers, and not backed off, there might have been a lot more use of lethal force?

In part I'm wondering because it seems like a clue as to what the 'plan' was, insofar as they had a plan (maybe a subset of the rioters did?). Of course she might just have gotten over-hyped on the adrenaline and not known what she was trying to do. Though that would surprise me given she was a miltiary veteran.

There was a plan to detain Congressman and the VP. There’s audio of it.
 
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Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,537
1,103
126
Threads like this only indicate there will be civil war at some point in this country. Stock up on your guns. You're gonna need them.
No. I you are a member of alt right, far right, anti govt groups and QAnon your days are numbered. The full weight of the DOJ will be used during the Biden administration to identify arrest and try these individuals.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
14,735
9,625
136
There was a plan to detain Congressman and the VP. There’s audio of it.

Do you have a link to it (or a transcript of it)? Not denying it exists, just curious to hear what was said (and what law enforcement is going to do about it!).
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Surely! When discussing whether a political platform supporting trickle-down economics works, it's fuzzy because there's evidence it does work - to enrich the wealthy - which is the goal of it in the first place. And so on with 2A, abortion, federalism, etc. Results of these political stances are fuzzy because there's little evidence either way.

However, when discussing whether there was widespread voter fraud, the claims are asserted without evidence, but there's ample evidence to reject them. That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without reason. But even though that should be the case, the claims of fraud not only cannot be proven by facts or evidence, but have been tested by multiple parties and proven false -- is therefore rejected. It's no different than me claiming that an oak tree has green leaves in Texas, but blue leaves in Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Georgia. It is asserted without evidence, cannot be proven by facts or evidence, and has been tested by multiple parties and proven false.

Er, I hope you know you actually just pulled the same bullshit argument to support that those other things were "fuzzy" or had evidence that these clowndicks spouting the election fraud nonsense have and that's exactly how they fucking ended up there, by people like you spewing nonsense in general and acting like its not.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
23,444
5,848
146
No. I you are a member of alt right, far right, anti govt groups and QAnon your days are numbered. The full weight of the DOJ will be used during the Biden administration to identify arrest and try these individuals.

It won't be. Sorry, but America will kick the can down the road yet again. We'll do a bit of a dog and pony show and not much really will happen, and America will lose all interest in actually giving a shit to the point that even bringing it up will sour people. We've seen this over and over and over.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
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It won't be. Sorry, but America will kick the can down the road yet again. We'll do a bit of a dog and pony show and not much really will happen, and America will lose all interest in actually giving a shit to the point that even bringing it up will sour people. We've seen this over and over and over.


Merrick Garland thinks otherwise.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,652
7,270
136
Maybe this will get me banned, but a day later I still wish more nazis would have been killed yesterday. You can bet there would be dozens of bodies strewn around the capitol if hundreds of BLM protesters breached the capitol to overthrow the government. As it stands now there is nothing going to happen in response. No 25th amendment, there has been no impeachment, and these fucking nazis know they'll never be held accountable for their violence. They just got to fucking walk out like nothing happened after trying to overthrow our government yesterday!

The bolded (by me) is simply not acceptable here. Your anger does not entitle you to wish death on anyone. This is not who we are. You have given me no choice but to infract and vacation you.

Perknose
Forum Director
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,339
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Maybe this will get me banned, but a day later I still wish more nazis would have been killed yesterday. You can bet there would be dozens of bodies strewn around the capitol if hundreds of BLM protesters breached the capitol to overthrow the government. As it stands now there is nothing going to happen in response. No 25th amendment, there has been no impeachment, and these fucking nazis know they'll never be held accountable for their violence. They just got to fucking walk out like nothing happened after trying to overthrow our government yesterday!


And NONE of that justifies more killing.

All that would have done is make things exponentially worse. By advocating violence all you are doing is blurring the lines between yourself and the mob.

I'm no bible-thumper but in this case truer words were never spoken ... violence begets MORE violence... you REALLY wanted to wake up today to 100's of dead cops AND rioters?
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,652
7,270
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And NONE of that justifies more killing.

All that would have done is make things exponentially worse. By advocating violence all your are doing is blurring the lines between yourself and the mob.

I'm no bible-thumper but in this case truer words were never spoken ... violence begets violence.

I'm advocating protecting the federal government from being overthrown. It would have been nice to see some consequences come from the failed coup yesterday. Since there were none, I shudder to think what January 20th is going to be like.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,339
10,858
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I'm advocating protecting the federal government from being overthrown. It would have been nice to see some consequences come from the failed coup yesterday. Since there were none, I shudder to think what January 20th is going to be like.


I doubt anyone will be caught with their pants down again. (although there's NO excuse for being caught flat-footed the way the DC cops were)

For the record I have no issue with you saying a lot of the cops were at least sympathetic to the rioters cause either. In fact I agree.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
8,652
7,270
136
And NONE of that justifies more killing.

All that would have done is make things exponentially worse. By advocating violence all you are doing is blurring the lines between yourself and the mob.

I'm no bible-thumper but in this case truer words were never spoken ... violence begets MORE violence... you REALLY wanted to wake up today to 100's of dead cops AND rioters?

The rioters brought guns and zip ties and left bombs. You think they were just going to have a friendly group debate with Pelosi, Ilhan-Omar, Schiff, etc if they had caught one?
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,339
10,858
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The rioters brought guns and zip ties and left bombs. You think they were just going to have a friendly group debate with Pelosi, Ilhan-Omar, Schiff, etc if they had caught one?


Of course not .... all I'm saying is that open-war in the streets shouldn't be our goal here. That would have been the short-term result if the cops who were on-scene at the time tried to kick ass and take names.

There were some "professionals" in among that crowd of rioters and being shot is TOO GOOD for them. However the vast majority were brainless minions.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,339
10,858
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Yesterday was terrorist appeasement. How can they not feel empowered today?


It's a fine line.

MUCH easier to be a bad guy since right and wrong (also truth) are non-issues.

Our goal HAS to be to restore order first. We DO however have to prosecute every one of these idiots to the fullest extent of the law.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,254
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Of course not .... all I'm saying is that open-war in the streets shouldn't be our goal here. That would have been the short-term result if the cops who were on-scene at the time tried to kick ass and take names.

There were some "professionals" in among that crowd of rioters and being shot is TOO GOOD for them. However the vast majority were brainless minions.
Guns with live, lethal ammo should've been used to protect our nation yesterday. Instead police ran like cowards and we are insanely lucky we didn't end up with a hostage situation.

If non-lethals had been used outside, maybe they would've never gotten the inside. If police had responded with lethal force as they were being pushed deeper and deeper into the capital maybe we wouldn't have had insurrectionist sitting in the chamber.

The lack of force could've lead to the kidnapping and killing of Congress members. I don't wish death on any of those people, but when you attempt a violent overthrow of government you should expect violence in return.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,339
10,858
136
Guns with live, lethal ammo should've been used to protect our nation yesterday. Instead police ran like cowards and we are insanely lucky we didn't end up with a hostage situation.

If non-lethals had been used outside, maybe they would've never gotten the inside. If police had responded with lethal force as they were being pushed deeper and deeper into the capital maybe we wouldn't have had insurrectionist sitting in the chamber.

The lack of force could've lead to the kidnapping and killing of Congress members. I don't wish death on any of those people, but when you attempt a violent overthrow of government you should expect violence in return.


I agree with every word in this post. I'm still glad it didn't come to that.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,957
581
136
Mentally insane. I don't blame her, I blame what fed her, AKA trump and those that perpetrate his lies. She was ill and instead of getting treated, she filled that /w QAnon. As someone who knows someone who has fallen into the QAnon bullshit, it's nearly impossible to get them out.

I also blame the law for allowing this to happen in the first place. We still don't know who caused such a "light" force here, but it started somewhere and I bet it rolls up to trump.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,214
9,396
136
Maybe this will get me banned, but a day later I still wish more nazis would have been killed yesterday.
...
They just got to fucking walk out like nothing happened after trying to overthrow our government yesterday!

First, those who broke into the Capitol building will be known and arrested for their crimes. Duh. This doesn't happen in front of a TV camera for your personal enjoyment. Just because you don't see an arrest the day the crime was committed, doesn't mean they'll escape justice.

Second, if you wanted more people killed.... you have no idea what was waiting in the wings and ready to take action. Militia groups were armed and waiting for any excuse to storm the Capitol and go in guns blazing. You want them to have that excuse? You don't just "win" a war. You lose people too. Who are you willing to sacrifice to sate your bloodlust?

It may come down to it, but we shouldn't want or encourage it.
 
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