Good compact semi-auto rifle?

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

In a SHTF scenario, why would you need to pick someone off at 500 yards?

Because someone may come within 500 yards of where I am?

With my m1a, I can shoot man sized targets out to 800 or so if I need to.

 

[Gothgar]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

In a SHTF scenario, why would you need to pick someone off at 500 yards?

Because someone may come within 500 yards of where I am?

With my m1a, I can shoot man sized targets out to 800 or so if I need to.

wouldnt that just attract more zombies to you though?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: JEDI
The thread about how much $ incase of SHTF scenario got me thinking about what's really more useful when it happens. and that's a gun.

but a handgun aint going to cut it in case of doomsday/zombie attack.

but a full size rifle is too big/bulky.

I saw this compact rifle: PIC

yes, it's not real.

but what's a good compact rifle? WHY?

Wrong, a handgun is your BEST friend in case of a zombie attack. You need a lightweight pistol with the lightest ammunition possible (you'll need to carry a lot of it). You don't want a situation where you might get cocky and start trying to go for long-range shots or bursts, thus wasting ammo. Only head shots count in a zombie engagement, and a pistol + laser sight is the best for that.

If you want to defend against other people, then a semiautomatic rifle might be a better choice. Against the undead, the pistol wins hands down.

Also, you have to consider finding a good place to fortify for awhile, something not on the ground floor (ie apartment complex, destroy the staircase so zombies can't shamble up).

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: JEDI
The thread about how much $ incase of SHTF scenario got me thinking about what's really more useful when it happens. and that's a gun.

but a handgun aint going to cut it in case of doomsday/zombie attack.

but a full size rifle is too big/bulky.

I saw this compact rifle: PIC

yes, it's not real.

but what's a good compact rifle? WHY?

Wrong, a handgun is your BEST friend in case of a zombie attack. You need a lightweight pistol with the lightest ammunition possible (you'll need to carry a lot of it). You don't want a situation where you might get cocky and start trying to go for long-range shots or bursts, thus wasting ammo. Only head shots count in a zombie engagement, and a pistol + laser sight is the best for that.

If you want to defend against other people, then a semiautomatic rifle might be a better choice. Against the undead, the pistol wins hands down.

Also, you have to consider finding a good place to fortify for awhile, something not on the ground floor (ie apartment complex, destroy the staircase so zombies can't shamble up).

The only reason handguns exist is so you have something to help you fight your way back to a rifle.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

You're gonna need a heck of lot more fire power than a semi-auto rifle when the SHTF.

I think you've got 5-10 years of lead time to get prepared though ...

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: JEDI
The thread about how much $ incase of SHTF scenario got me thinking about what's really more useful when it happens. and that's a gun.

but a handgun aint going to cut it in case of doomsday/zombie attack.

but a full size rifle is too big/bulky.

I saw this compact rifle: PIC

yes, it's not real.

but what's a good compact rifle? WHY?

Wrong, a handgun is your BEST friend in case of a zombie attack. You need a lightweight pistol with the lightest ammunition possible (you'll need to carry a lot of it). You don't want a situation where you might get cocky and start trying to go for long-range shots or bursts, thus wasting ammo. Only head shots count in a zombie engagement, and a pistol + laser sight is the best for that.

If you want to defend against other people, then a semiautomatic rifle might be a better choice. Against the undead, the pistol wins hands down.

Also, you have to consider finding a good place to fortify for awhile, something not on the ground floor (ie apartment complex, destroy the staircase so zombies can't shamble up).

The only reason handguns exist is so you have something to help you fight your way back to a rifle.

Unless you find yourself in a zombie attack. Pistol > * in that scenario, since the pistol is easier to use in close quarters (clearing out rooms) and you remove the temptation of unloading a whole clip into just a few targets (which would be great fun, but would reduce your chances of surviving).

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Midnight Rambler
You're gonna need a heck of lot more fire power than a semi-auto rifle when the SHTF.

I think you've got 5-10 years of lead time to get prepared though ...

RPG Launchers?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
& personally, I feel every SHTF needs a scoped hunting rifle or a sniper rifle.

Will Smith in I am Legend showed the problem with using an AR...

Agreed on the hunting rifle, that could really come in handy. Unfortunately there's the issue of weight... in a real SHTF scenario you may need to leave your fortifications in a hurry for any number of reasons. Too much firepower might slow you down (but a good hunting rifle plus some ammo shouldn't be a problem)

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
& personally, I feel every SHTF needs a scoped hunting rifle or a sniper rifle.

Will Smith in I am Legend showed the problem with using an AR...

Agreed on the hunting rifle, that could really come in handy. Unfortunately there's the issue of weight... in a real SHTF scenario you may need to leave your fortifications in a hurry for any number of reasons. Too much firepower might slow you down (but a good hunting rifle plus some ammo shouldn't be a problem)

The thing with hunting rifles is that they're heavy, and they use heavy ammo and aren't much good at anything else. A good compromise would be a carbine that is easily able to reach out a few hundred yards with a short barrel for closer combat scenarios.

 

[alkemyst]

most think elitest when talking SHTF...you really need to get to basics. You will find no online ammo dealer when the shit hits the fan. You will rely on ammo you can find or make.

penetrating body armor is a huge range and is probably not a top concern, you will want to fend off the masses or take from them.

The uber rich have the best of it all including fortresses they have built.

If you are preparing for doomsday, you need to choose your role.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

someone 500 yard out is not a threat unless they got a good shooter with scoped rifle.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

someone 500 yard out is not a threat unless they got a good shooter with scoped rifle.

I think that was his idea - shoot first and ask questions later. Of course, they COULD just be trying to help you, but adairusmc doesn't care about any of that

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

someone 500 yard out is not a threat unless they got a good shooter with scoped rifle.

yeah it's always best to thin out the first wave of zombies.

 

[adairusmc]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

someone 500 yard out is not a threat unless they got a good shooter with scoped rifle.

I think that was his idea - shoot first and ask questions later. Of course, they COULD just be trying to help you, but adairusmc doesn't care about any of that

Or they could be coming to take my firearms, like they did in Nawlins during Katrina. Any one attempting to do that, LEO or otherwise, will be engaged.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

someone 500 yard out is not a threat unless they got a good shooter with scoped rifle.

I think that was his idea - shoot first and ask questions later. Of course, they COULD just be trying to help you, but adairusmc doesn't care about any of that

Or they could be coming to take my firearms, like they did in Nawlins during Katrina. Any one attempting to do that, LEO or otherwise, will be engaged.

Ironically, while they where disarming law abiding citizens in Orleans Parish, here in Jefferson Parish (I live 4 miles as the bird flies from the SuperDoom) the police where happy to see neighborhoods with multiple armed men patrolling their streets. It was one less street that the spread extremely thin police had to worry about.

With that said, after what I witnessed in the aftermath of Katrina, I fully support everyones right to not arm themselves. As long as their are plenty of people who can not defend themselves the "bad guys" will have no interest in a confrontation with people who can and will defend themselves.

 

[Safeway]

I think that transforming Glock would do just fine. Make it look like a hardback book, though, for added classiness.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: adairusmc

Originally posted by: Tsunami982
I hate to be a party pooper but when I was buying my shotgun and thinking about getting a CA legal AR, I kept this in the back of my mind "I live in Commifornia and they hate guns here, if I have to defend myself or my family and use it on someone, its going to look real bad to the jury when they hold up an shotgun/rifle thats been modified with high tech optics/modified triggers/tac lights/bipods/bayonets/even fuzzy dice." Also, even if you are justified in shooting (and in CA thats an uphill battle), you are liable for any additional damage resulting... so overpenetration (rifles). If you hit your neighbor or some random kid on the street after your went through the perp and wall... you are still going to jail.

Most confrontations are within 5-10yds and last for 3secs. You want to protect yourself if SHTF... but you dont want to go to jail afterward either. For home defense... I bought a Mossberg 590 (8+1)... if you can't hit something with 9rds from a shotgun at 5-10 yards, you shouldn't be thinking about getting a gun until you get some more range time. Go shotgun... cheap reliable... much easier to put lead on target at short ranges... and I have yet to meet a zombie that would be able to take 9 large buck/slugs... and if I did... I'd probably be screwed anyway.

A shotgun cannot hit someone 500 yards out.

someone 500 yard out is not a threat unless they got a good shooter with scoped rifle.

the AA-12 has many ammo type, one of them is grenade, another is AP. Issue is really the weight of ammo. 2 man teams work best me think for SHTF situations. One shoots while the other reload.

 

[JEDI]

Summary:

PS90 - looks cool, but bullets hard to get + expensive
ar15 VARIANT with a short barrel and a collapsable stock -> any cons?
AK 74 (not ak47?!) -> bullets plentiful, very reliable, but is it compact/light weight?

What gun is this?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: JEDI
Summary:

PS90 - looks cool, but bullets hard to get + expensive
ar15 VARIANT with a short barrel and a collapsable stock -> any cons?
AK 74 (not ak47?!) -> bullets plentiful, very reliable, but is it compact/light weight?

What gun is this?

AK74 is a submachine gun similar to an AK 47. its smaller than a ak47 but i'm not sure by how much. I would assume its lighter.

a Tavor

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: JEDI
Summary:

PS90 - looks cool, but bullets hard to get + expensive
ar15 VARIANT with a short barrel and a collapsable stock -> any cons?
AK 74 (not ak47?!) -> bullets plentiful, very reliable, but is it compact/light weight?

What gun is this?

Tavor isn't availible in the US

The AR15 is a short barreled rifle which requires a $200 tax stamp. Furthermore The magic number for AR15 ammo is 2700fps. You don't get significant fragmentation below that. A 16" barrel puts you out to about 100-120 meters and still be above 2700fps. Yes the shorter barrels are handy, but the round just isn't as effective.

The Krinkov (A short barreled AK 74 basically) is compact and can come chambered in 762x39 which is about the best round for sub 300m engagements with such a short barrel. I'm not sure on the weight. Unfortunately it'll cost an extra $200 with the tax stamp, and the kits or rifles are pretty expensive. Figure $1000 including tax stamp. Most people prefer the side folders.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: JEDI
Summary:

PS90 - looks cool, but bullets hard to get + expensive
ar15 VARIANT with a short barrel and a collapsable stock -> any cons?
AK 74 (not ak47?!) -> bullets plentiful, very reliable, but is it compact/light weight?

What gun is this?

Tavor isn't availible in the US

The AR15 is a short barreled rifle which requires a $200 tax stamp. Furthermore The magic number for AR15 ammo is 2700fps. You don't get significant fragmentation below that. A 16" barrel puts you out to about 100-120 meters and still be above 2700fps. Yes the shorter barrels are handy, but the round just isn't as effective.

The Krinkov (A short barreled AK 74 basically) is compact and can come chambered in 762x39 which is about the best round for sub 300m engagements with such a short barrel. I'm not sure on the weight. Unfortunately it'll cost an extra $200 with the tax stamp, and the kits or rifles are pretty expensive. Figure $1000 including tax stamp. Most people prefer the side folders.

yea but in an urban environment you don't need much more than 100 meters to keep zombies at bay. buildings too close together

 

[Nyati13]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: JEDI
Summary:

PS90 - looks cool, but bullets hard to get + expensive
ar15 VARIANT with a short barrel and a collapsable stock -> any cons?
AK 74 (not ak47?!) -> bullets plentiful, very reliable, but is it compact/light weight?

What gun is this?

AK74 is a submachine gun similar to an AK 47. its smaller than a ak47 but i'm not sure by how much. I would assume its lighter.

a Tavor

The AK-74 is the same size as an AK-47, the main difference is that the -74 uses the 5.45x39 while the -47 uses the 7.62x39. The -74 is also a bit lighter, but that is due to plastic stocks that can also be used on -47's, so not really a difference.

The Krinkov is the submachine gun version of the AK.

*edit* And, AK's are not big guns to start with, I can't see any advantage in a SHTF scenario with a smaller gun. Little guns are mostly just for special ops and truck drivers. *

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Tavor isn't availible in the US

This SHTF scenario is limited to legal guns available in the US?

 

[BudAshes]

Losers real lives are so pathetic they have to dream about the apocalypse.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Losers real lives are so pathetic they have to dream about the apocalypse.

Other losers waste their time trying to correct them.


Anyway. I picked up a Remington Express Riot 870 12 gauge. Nice, basic shotgun.
It's silly fun. I want to pick up a bolt action rifle like a 700. Undecided on caliber, etc.
However, the way things are going, I am going to get a good handfun first. I have a feeling the ban stick is coming.