Good "god" arguments!

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
What do i believe without evidence?

The lack of a higher being.

I believe in what i percieve from my senses, my memory my eyes, and what i process through my brain.
Therefor there's i no reason for me to belive in "a higher being" controlling my surroundings, or perhaps even me.

And my senses tell me something different.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: hatim
I would say go back to the begninning of the beginning of the universe as modern science says. Anyways matter can not exist out of nowhere. Energy? Where did all the energy in the universe come from? Not magically. Because outside the universe nothing exists. No dimentions, no coulour - nothingness we cannot imagine. Just becuase God is something we can not see or feel doesnt mean he does not exist.

That's the "new religion" of our time. I can't tell you the answer to what's out there, that's what mathematicians and physicists are working on figuring out. But if you're believing that and old man, or whatever, is sitting outthere watching you, it is because you do not discard what you have been taught, which you must do, and remember what you _know_ to get the full picture. And the are talking about several dimensions, which is the alternative i'm leaning towards.

[Edited so i don't sound like a non-english person, or whatever]

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
What do i believe without evidence?

The lack of a higher being.

I believe in what i percieve from my senses, my memory my eyes, and what i process through my brain.
Therefor there's i no reason for me to belive in "a higher being" controlling my surroundings, or perhaps even me.

And my senses tell me something different.

Which of the 5 senses are you talking about?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
What do i believe without evidence?

The lack of a higher being.

I believe in what i percieve from my senses, my memory my eyes, and what i process through my brain.
Therefor there's i no reason for me to belive in "a higher being" controlling my surroundings, or perhaps even me.

And my senses tell me something different.

Which of the 5 senses are you talking about?

All of them.

 

[Forsythe]

Am i the only one not understanding you?

Please explain!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Am i the only one not understanding you?

Please explain!

Everyone experiences things differently. Where you don't see god, I might. It's kind of simple really.

As far as scientifics, the senses cannot provide them accurately enough.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Am i the only one not understanding you?

Please explain!

Everyone experiences things differently. Where you don't see god, I might. It's kind of simple really.

As far as scientifics, the senses cannot provide them accurately enough.

I'm sorry to say this, but from what you say, you believe because you want to belive, without any particular reason. Which probably emans you are beliveing, because you've allways believed.
The one thing i can say is: Good for you, i envy you!

 

[datalink7]

edit

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks for help from JustAnAverageGuy

link

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Am i the only one not understanding you?

Please explain!

Everyone experiences things differently. Where you don't see god, I might. It's kind of simple really.

As far as scientifics, the senses cannot provide them accurately enough.

I'm sorry to say this, but from what you say, you believe because you want to belive, without any particular reason. Which probably emans you are beliveing, because you've allways believed.
The one thing i can say is: Good for you, i envy you!

Not at all. I haven't always believed, and I definitely did not believe before what I believe now. Unfortunately, it's not something that can be taught.

 

[Forsythe]

Time for drinking beer and watching Terminator, goodnight people, it's 4am here. That discussion kept me going!

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Am i the only one not understanding you?

Please explain!

Everyone experiences things differently. Where you don't see god, I might. It's kind of simple really.

As far as scientifics, the senses cannot provide them accurately enough.

I'm sorry to say this, but from what you say, you believe because you want to belive, without any particular reason. Which probably emans you are beliveing, because you've allways believed.
The one thing i can say is: Good for you, i envy you!

Not at all. I haven't always believed, and I definitely did not believe before what I believe now. Unfortunately, it's not something that can be taught.

Then it's because you "need" to believe (which is basically what i was trying to get at before), nothing much anyone can do about that. I belive that defines you as a Zealot (not offensive from me). But i must say, i admire your lust to debate with me. But i'm going now. Goodt evening!

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Forsythe
Am i the only one not understanding you?

Please explain!

Everyone experiences things differently. Where you don't see god, I might. It's kind of simple really.

As far as scientifics, the senses cannot provide them accurately enough.

I'm sorry to say this, but from what you say, you believe because you want to belive, without any particular reason. Which probably emans you are beliveing, because you've allways believed.
The one thing i can say is: Good for you, i envy you!

Not at all. I haven't always believed, and I definitely did not believe before what I believe now. Unfortunately, it's not something that can be taught.

Then it's because you "need" to believe (which is basically what i was trying to get at before), nothing much anyone can do about that. I belive that defines you as a Zealot (not offensive from me). But i must say, i admire your lust to debate with me. But i'm going now. Goodt evening!

Jesus Christ! :beer: > debating religion on the internet. Go away!

If I need to believe it is because I see something that is proof enough. I'm not a zealot, IMO. The only reason I started posting is because of the crappy attitude you presented towards theists. I don't care if you believe in a god or not. I don't think it matters.

 

[TuxDave]

I read only 1 or 2 posts that I agree with.

Bottom line, there is no logical argument to prove alot of stuff. For your education, please google "Love is a fallacy". It's a quick short story and you'll see why I'm not surprised that there is no logical proof for God.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: MadCowDisease

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: Forsythe
I am a complete atheist, nuff said about me.
Give me arguments on why i should believe. Please keep it trool free (as if ) and make it, "logical arguments."
If you're unsure what a logical argument is? then look here: Wikipedia.org

I will naturally refer from namecalling, of _any_ sorts, and urge you to do the same.
Also, wouldn't it be cool in nobody else than religious ppl posted their arguments, so it wouldn't be a total flame post?

Let me tell you of the Intelligent design argument I learned in my philosophy class. If you think about a mechanical watch, it is obvious it was designed by an intelligent mind. Every part of the watch has its purpose and they all work together to make the whole thing work. If one part is taken out off of the watch it will stop working. Now, if you look at how we are designed, you can make the similar argument. We have billions of cells in our bodies and they all have their specific purpose. If you look at how our bodies break up food and how certain enzymes break up certain types of protein, and how our organs work together to keep us alive, one can conclude that we are of intelligent design. However, this type of argument tells us nothing about out our designer. e.i. whether he is good or bad.

The problem is that the watch is designed for a specific purpose in mind, whereas human beings are not - evolution is NOT a goal-seeking occurrence. ID theory is just creationism rebadged. Moreover, any person who assumes that complexity inherently means the existence of a creator is simply deluded.

First of all, how do you know humans don't have a specific purpose and you just don't know what it is?
Secondly can you name something complex that you can prove just came to be on its own? Have you seen a watch spontaneously appear on earth before humans made one? Why not? It's simpler than human life why didn't the metals just form together to make something, anything? Why is all life on earth biological? Biological life is more complex than simple machines, surely there would be a greater probability for it to have occured than biological life, right?

 

[AreaCode707]

I'm going to post once and you can feel free to consider or disregard my thoughts. I won't be checking back in on my post because I have neither the time nor inclination for debate tonight.

If the events of the Acts of the Apostles occurred today, I think that they could, in some measure, be used as a proof. Chronic illness healed, death undone, prison doors opened, and so on. (If you haven't the vaguest idea of what I'm talking about, feel free to read the first portions of Acts.) Naturally, this doesn't make up a good argument today because there's no way of fully judging the accuracy or truthfulness of the written accounts. Nor, even so, would that allow scientific experimentation on the subjects.

In like manner, one of my own personal arguments for the existance of God, and I speak now of an argument I use with myself, with no intention of convincing others, is that I have seen and encountered some similar things. This isn't much of an argument for others because, as with the written account, it is a testimonial that cannot be scientifically examined in a way to satisfy the scientific method. However, when you have had the chance to see, touch, examine and apply an informal scientific method, it becomes convincing for the single observer. My own arguments for God, when I argue within myself, include the evidence that I have seen by way of cause and effect that mimics the stories in Acts, and in the gospels.

I don't think it's a particularly good way of collecting information to ask a lot of unschooled people to provide scientific evidence; a forum of scientists would be the better place for that. As for logical evidence, your own link dooms this discussion from the beginning. "... based on the truth of a set of assertions called premises." The particular groups that involve themselves in this discussion will never see logic in each others' statements because they will not, and perhaps cannot, agree on a shared set of premises.

 

[flawlssdistortn]

You have to realize the limitations of our knowledge and our brain... a few hundred years ago, we thought the earth was flat. Then we thought it was the center of the universe. About a half century ago, Einstein proved that time is not universal. In more recent years, it has been discovered that there are 10 dimensions. With all of these unbelieveable things being revealed, imagine how much more we do not know. You have to keep an open mind.

 

[flawlssdistortn]

Another thing - if you want scientific proof of God's existence, you're asking the wrong question and you're not gonna get the answer. You dont find God, he finds you. The more important question is "how does becoming a christian affect my outlook and actions in the world, and does that make sense?"

 

[coinz]

Originally posted by: nourdmrolNMT1
grabs a
lay-z-boy recliner.
24 pack
beer bong
toilet
computer
newspaper
sun glasses
cell phone for 911
fire proof suit
shower
popcorn
pj's
week worth of clothing

now i should be ready.

MIKE

o yeah lol

 

[imported_Papi]

good luck with that!

 

[neonerd]

me = atheist jew

jewish pride! but i don't believe in god

Unfortunately, the type of person I am, my brain needs scientific proof for everything before I believe something

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
You have to realize the limitations of our knowledge and our brain... a few hundred years ago, we thought the earth was flat. Then we thought it was the center of the universe. About a half century ago, Einstein proved that time is not universal. In more recent years, it has been discovered that there are 10 dimensions. With all of these unbelieveable things being revealed, imagine how much more we do not know. You have to keep an open mind.

Were you trying to make a point in there somewhere?

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Originally posted by: datalink7
Proofs of God?s Existence:

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) God exists.
(2) If God exists, then if reason exists then God exists.
(3) Reason exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

Every single one of those is false... I'll take this one for example. You make the assumption G. then you say G->R then you say R therefore G
a table for G->R goes tftt. Assuming your assumptions are true and knowing G you could say R. Knowing R you could say either G or not G and it would still be true. if you reverse it and had R->G you'd have a logicly correct statement, but you'd still need to proove your assumptions.

The burden of proof is for existance. Asking people to proove nonexistance is stupid. If your faith gives you all the proof you need then fine, but your word doesn't cut it for a lot of people. I could say there is no proof that aliens aren't aiming world destorying weapons at us right now therefore there are aliens doing so. How well does that go down with you proove nonexistance people?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: AyashiKaibutsu

Originally posted by: datalink7
Proofs of God?s Existence:

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) God exists.
(2) If God exists, then if reason exists then God exists.
(3) Reason exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

Every single one of those is false... I'll take this one for example. You make the assumption G. then you say G->R then you say R therefore G
a table for G->R goes tftt. Assuming your assumptions are true and knowing G you could say R. Knowing R you could say either G or not G and it would still be true. if you reverse it and had R->G you'd have a logicly correct statement, but you'd still need to proove your assumptions.

The burden of proof is for existance. Asking people to proove nonexistance is stupid. If your faith gives you all the proof you need then fine, but your word doesn't cut it for a lot of people. I could say there is no proof that aliens aren't aiming world destorying weapons at us right now therefore there are aliens doing so. How well does that go down with you proove nonexistance people?

Therefore God exists?

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: datalink7

[a
REALLY
long post]

If anybody quotes that, they deserve a ban or something.

DataLink7

Could you please edit your post with a link to the text file instead? That's a lot of scrolling!

I even took the liberty of uploading it.

http://s94015114.onlinehome.us/Downloads/godproof.txt

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
You have to realize the limitations of our knowledge and our brain... a few hundred years ago, we thought the earth was flat. Then we thought it was the center of the universe. About a half century ago, Einstein proved that time is not universal. In more recent years, it has been discovered that there are 10 dimensions. With all of these unbelieveable things being revealed, imagine how much more we do not know. You have to keep an open mind.

Were you trying to make a point in there somewhere?

I think he is! But first of all, it's 11 dimensions, highly complicated maths that i hopefully one day will be able to understand. But basically i think he's promoting a religious "hidden agenda" Saying that perhaps one day we will find god, through logics! What he's basically saying about the existence of a higher being is, to quote my favorite book, that "it's not impossible, it's just very very unlikely!" (Douglas Adams - Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, adams himself was a through and through atheist actually).

Originally posted by: flawlssdistortn
Another thing - if you want scientific proof of God's existence, you're asking the wrong question and you're not gonna get the answer. You dont find God, he finds you. The more important question is "how does becoming a christian affect my outlook and actions in the world, and does that make sense?"

However, what you say here is absolutely correct! And per say i have no problem with religious people, if they thnik it benefits them to be religious, i'm ok with that. That's why i disagree with many atheit's decision that religion is "all bad" !