Good Linux support they say...

[Soulkeeper]

Give me one good reason to why I should pay for open source NVIDIA drivers on linux?

Because that is what Linus is saying.
He wan't NVIDIA (read: the consumers) to pay for open source drivers on linux...and flips the bird as a powerfull "argument"...for not being taken seriously.

Why should NVIDIA spend resources/manpower on making open source drivers for linux?
Fuzzy warm feelings?

I actually like that they don't waste to much time on linux and focus on where the main use of their GPU's are located:

Gaming on windows.

You've missed the point.
They don't need to pay/create the drivers linux users/coders around the world will and are.
All they have to do is release some documentation and be friendly towards the "community" like AMD and Intel have done. Common excuses for not doing this involve "it'll violate our trade secrets" "it'll compromise drm" "it'll cost too much" none of which are true.

Just imagine buying something complex without an instruction manual. Same principle

 

[AnandThenMan]

This, once again, is about open soruce, it's hippies, it's policies...and it's childish selfentitled behavouir.

 

[ZimZum]

Hey Zummy, Would you then like to maybe ADD something instead of just armchair judging all other opinions?

Hey I didn't know we were using cute nicknames for one another now, cool. Listen Kelsie, I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I wasn't judging at all. I quite enjoyed your thoughts on Linux and was really hoping you would drop a few more nuggets on us.

As for me getting involved in this cluster F***, no thanks.

 

[Schmide]

Posting about the topic and flaws of this thread location...what are you doing here?

If you don't run Linux, so it's as simple as this. You just don't get it. Your sole purpose here is to detract from the issues at hand.

 

[Kalessian]

Thank god for ZimZum and Soulkeeper (thread savior):

NV Response: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyMjk

Keep Soulkeeper's post in mind while reading it, then read the comments on that article. I don't follow this much anymore but before AMD released their docs the argument was made that some of the hardware secrets have been licensed by nv from 3rd parties and they don't have the rights to release them. It would appear to me after AMD released theirs a few years ago that there are ways around this type of problem at least. I write device drivers, but I don't make hardware so I have no idea how plausible this is as an excuse. Outside of this, it really seems nv just doesn't want to play nice for no reason.

Also, for people who don't seem to get it, Linus is still in the trenches, I'm pretty sure any important kernel code has to be ok'ed by him before it gets merged to the main release branch, and also I'm pretty sure he writes all the release notes himself for every new revision. The same kernel used in 90%+ of the HPC world.

 

[AnandThenMan]

NV Response: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyMjk

A whole lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing, except FU Linux community this is how we do things.

 

[Lonbjerg]

You've missed the point.
They don't need to pay/create the drivers linux users/coders around the world will and are.
All they have to do is release some documentation and be friendly towards the "community" like AMD and Intel have done. Common excuses for not doing this involve "it'll violate our trade secrets" "it'll compromise drm" "it'll cost too much" none of which are true.

Just imagine buying something complex without an instruction manual. Same principle

Nothing is free in a buisness.
You make it sound like hardware companies are EXPECTED to comply...like it's some kind of law.

If NVIDIA has no interest in making open source drivers linux just have to live with that.

All I see...once again...is this "selfentitlement" feeling from the open source crowd.

Stallman and now linus is appears suffer form the hippe notion that since they want to make everthing free and open...everyone else HAS too do so too!!!

Or they are not being nice!!!1oneone11!!1!

All this shows is why the open source crowd are the own worst enemy...speaks nothing about the performance or featureset of NVIDIA drivers on linux...which btw makes a lot of the other open soruce GPU drivers look hillarious...it's about the little *unix boys, as always, crying over how other people wont share they toys...

 

[Lonbjerg]

A whole lot of words to say a whole lot of nothing, except FU Linux community this is how we do things.

"The grapes are sour said the fox...."

1) Linux end users benefit from same-day support for new GPUs , OpenGL version and extension parity between NVIDIA Windows and NVIDIA Linux support, and OpenGL performance parity between NVIDIA Windows and NVIDIA Linux.

2) We support a wide variety of GPUs on Linux, including our latest GeForce, Quadro, and Tesla-class GPUs, for both desktop and notebook platforms. Our drivers for these platforms are updated regularly, with seven updates released so far this year for Linux alone. The latest Linux drivers can be downloaded from www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html.

3) We are a very active participant in the ARM Linux kernel. For the latest 3.4 ARM kernel – the next-gen kernel to be used on future Linux, Android, and Chrome distributions – NVIDIA ranks second in terms of total lines changed and fourth in terms of number of changesets for all employers or organizations.

At the end of the day, providing a consistent GPU experience across multiple platforms for all of our customers continues to be one of our key goals.

No special treatment for linux...but look how people whine.

If the whines then are from people with a foundation in the GPL heart of it all...or they whine bacuse of the color of their -hardware-glasses I gather the memebers are quite intelligent enough to sort that out...but again, this is a software philosophy debate...not a videocard debate...and thus the wrong subforum.

 

[Schmide]

You do understand the nVidia greatly benefits from Linux? Tegra would have no OS without it!

 

[AnandThenMan]

Nothing is free in a buisness.
You make it sound like hardware companies are EXPECTED to comply...like it's some kind of law.

There has to be some cooperation, especially in this industry. Without it, absolutely nothing would be compatible, and you would be forever locked into a single vendor in every possible way. And I really don't understand why you keep talking about paying for drivers, Nvidia does not have to spend a single penny, they only need to provide technical documentation, like AMD and Intel do. Is that really too much to ask? Do you think Intel is making a big mistake doing this?

You do understand the nVidia greatly benefits from Linux? Tegra would have no OS without it!

Which is what bothers me about Nvidia, they have no problem profiting on the backs of others. But when it comes time to give back, they refuse.

 

[Lonbjerg]

You do understand the nVidia greatly benefits from Linux? Tegra would have no OS without it!

And?

 

[Lonbjerg]

There has to be some cooperation, especially in this industry. Without it, absolutely nothing would be compatible, and you would be forever locked into a single vendor in every possible way. And I really don't understand why you keep talking about paying for drivers, Nvidia does not have to spend a single penny, they only need to provide technical documentation, like AMD and Intel do. Is that really too much to ask? Do you think Intel is making a big mistake doing this?

Depends...if you won't acccpt the answer...are you really asking...or are you in reality dictating?

Which is what bothers me about Nvidia, they have no problem profiting on the backs of others. But when it comes time to give back, they refuse.

What does profits have to do with open source drivers?

 

[AnandThenMan]

Lonbjerg have you ever used Linux in any capacity?

 

[Soulkeeper]

This thread has degenerated.

I wish you all the best of luck

 

[Lonbjerg]

Lonbjerg have you ever used Linux in any capacity?

I use FreeBSD and linux daily...like I use Windows 7.

if you think my dislike for open soruce comes from not having my hands on, I assure you that you are mistaken.

I work as network tech for an ISP, I deal with open source..and it's proponents on a daily basis.

But my Laptop runs Win7.
So does my desktop.
I have no use for *unix, besides some function at the job, so I keep my home as "stallman"-free as possible.

But all this is irrelevant...it's a simple fallacy...smoke & mirrors.

Du you have anything to say about the topic at hand:

Linus childish entitlement?

 

[Lonbjerg]

This thread has degenerated.

I wish you all the best of luck

It degenerated because it's in the wrong subforum.

The debate here isn't AMD vs NVIDIA....or videcards.


It's the debate over why can't a hardware company say no to open source, because that medel fits the company better?

 

[Keysplayr]

Hey I didn't know we were using cute nicknames for one another now, cool. Listen Kelsie, I don't want you to get the wrong idea. I wasn't judging at all. I quite enjoyed your thoughts on Linux and was really hoping you would drop a few more nuggets on us.

As for me getting involved in this cluster F***, no thanks.

But you seem to want to participate one way or another. So if you really MEAN that "no thanks" then adhere to it.

 

[Keysplayr]

You do understand the nVidia greatly benefits from Linux? Tegra would have no OS without it!

I take it you mean Android. Then I'd agree. Cause I like Android.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Just imagine buying something complex without an instruction manual. Same principle

I have come to this world, without one. I know the feeling

 

[ShintaiDK]

I have come to this world, without one. I know the feeling

And no warranty either! :biggrin:

 

[ultimatebob]

You are forgetting something...this is not about drivers or featurecomplete.

It's about OPEN SOURCE POLICIES...which dosn't matter to me...as the games I play...don't work under crapnux...

Call me weird, but I'd rather have a closed source driver that works well like Nvidia's binary drivers, instead of an open source driver like Intel's that sucks.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

Nothing is free in a buisness.
You make it sound like hardware companies are EXPECTED to comply...like it's some kind of law.

If NVIDIA has no interest in making open source drivers linux just have to live with that.

All I see...once again...is this "selfentitlement" feeling from the open source crowd.

Stallman and now linus is appears suffer form the hippe notion that since they want to make everthing free and open...everyone else HAS too do so too!!!

Or they are not being nice!!!1oneone11!!1!

All this shows is why the open source crowd are the own worst enemy...speaks nothing about the performance or featureset of NVIDIA drivers on linux...which btw makes a lot of the other open soruce GPU drivers look hillarious...it's about the little *unix boys, as always, crying over how other people wont share they toys...

UM you completely missed the point for I as a (((PAYING))) nvidia customer and user I am fucking pissed for getting shafted with half baked propitiatory Geforce drivers on Linux.

 

[Gordon Freemen]

Call me weird, but I'd rather have a closed source driver that works well like Nvidia's binary drivers, instead of an open source driver like Intel's that sucks.

You missed the point and your point is invalid because Intel graphics suck no matter what driver it has it's still only as good as the piece of hardware it driving.

 

[ultimatebob]

You missed the point and your point is invalid because Intel graphics suck no matter what driver it has it's still only as good as the piece of hardware it driving.

It depends on the application. Intel graphics might suck for gaming, but they're more than enough to handle light office work and various business applications.

That said, when your drivers are so flaky that they can't even reliably do THAT right most of the time under Linux, you know that you have problems.

 

[MrK6]

Hey Zummy, Would you then like to maybe ADD something instead of just armchair judging all other opinions?

EDIT: This thread should be moved out of here to the software forum.

Why don't you just move it then?