Graphics for 15" rMBP Haswell

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
all of them look like you're running it at the panel's native resolution

If you think that, I'm not the one on crack. It's blurryvision city dude, at either of the other scaling options, but particularly in the 'like 1920' mode - even comparing to one of my Dell M4700's running a TN FHD panel (not even mentioning the Dreamcolor HP's).
 
Last edited:

Tyranicus

Senior member
Aug 28, 2007
914
6
81
Graphics on webpages can be slightly blurry, but everything else is beautiful. I run mine at 1680 x 1050 and love it.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,002
1,621
126
The non-native resolutions on the rMBP are remarkably good. It's the first time I have ever seen non-native resolutions look so good.

That said, I prefer the font size for the recommended resolution of 1440x900 on the 15", or in my case, 1280x800 on the 13". An equivalent pixel density of 110-113 is perfect for a laptop IMO... but not a desktop, which is why I find the 2560x1440 annoying on my Core i7 iMac.

Here's hoping for a retina 27" iMac so I can run it at a non-native resolution if necessary. Better yet would be a retina 24", which would be more ergonomically appropriate for a wider range of users, and cheaper. A retina 24" with a pixel density of 200 would be perfect.
 
Last edited:

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
Graphics on webpages can be slightly blurry, but everything else is beautiful. I run mine at 1680 x 1050 and love it.

Graphics I really don't have a problem with, as long as the Retina support is there it's not an issue - I'm talking about productivity use, and there the scaling is a real problem. You either have razer-sharp non-productive res (native retina) or blurry productivity res (1920 and even 1680 to an extent).

Again, for most so-called-enthusiast/expert Mac users with trophy-wife-grade computing needs at best, I expect the Retina mode to 'delight with magicality' but it doesn't work for me - which is why for me, the lesser evil is to run the panel at native res. It's hard going sometimes though, especially if the machine is more arms-length.

I guess also part of the problem is that I'm used to more practical panels on the equivalent-or-better Windows gear I operate.
 
Last edited:

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,002
1,621
126
Just run it one-quarter resolution. That's the most ideal "productivity res' in terms of text size anyway on Mac laptops. If that doesn't work for you then add an external monitor, or else just stop using Macs.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
Yes - I realise that whatever Fisher-Price sets as the best way works best if you have Apple on the brain. Not being so is my problem.

or else just stop using Macs.

I really wish I could, and I can dump them altogether. The day is coming, but not today.

I mean, they even stopped selling the Pro in my market - as antique as it is now, it was the only anywhere near serious choice Apple-wise for when I needed a desktop - so since I didn't want to go used / recon, I was reduced to buying the 3770/680 iMacs as additional stopgaps. As I said, it's now at best a trophy-wife-grade computing company, never mind the other problems with anything Apple labelled 'Pro' (ha).
 
Last edited:

Ice_Dragon

Senior member
Nov 17, 2011
236
0
71
Let me ask this then, will Apple for the next gen max out the graphics memory for whatever chips they put in? I think having only 1 GB of the 650M last time was too little when it could have had 2 GB. A friend of mine says VRAM doesn't matter but I disagree.

Thoughts?
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
Let me ask this then, will Apple for the next gen max out the graphics memory for whatever chips they put in? I think having only 1 GB of the 650M last time was too little when it could have had 2 GB. A friend of mine says VRAM doesn't matter but I disagree.

Thoughts?

Only Apple can answer that. Perhaps it was something to do with the way they clocked it in the specific case of the 650M. My M4700's for example ships with the K2000 which is supposed to be the equivalent, but they have 2Gb of GDDR3, not GDDR5.

Since Apple no longer caters to pros with their 'pros' I would imagine they thought GDDR5 would be a better bet for the consumer benchmarking crowd, especially given any Apple feature gets sprinkled with fairy blogger dust regardless of how much (lack of) merit there actually is.

I'd imagine therefore that if there's no particular limitation like that from NVidia themselves, they'd max the memory on their flagships - there's no real reason not to do it otherwise.
 

joshhedge

Senior member
Nov 19, 2011
601
0
0
Only Apple can answer that. Perhaps it was something to do with the way they clocked it in the specific case of the 650M. My M4700's for example ships with the K2000 which is supposed to be the equivalent, but they have 2Gb of GDDR3, not GDDR5.

Since Apple no longer caters to pros with their 'pros' I would imagine they thought GDDR5 would be a better bet for the consumer benchmarking crowd, especially given any Apple feature gets sprinkled with fairy blogger dust regardless of how much (lack of) merit there actually is.

I'd imagine therefore that if there's no particular limitation like that from NVidia themselves, they'd max the memory on their flagships - there's no real reason not to do it otherwise.

False, they do. The new iMac is a compute god, my father just got the i7 with the 680MX and that video edits a treat. my rPro runs CAD software flawlessly and the new Mac Pro should be out at some point this year.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
Graphics I really don't have a problem with, as long as the Retina support is there it's not an issue - I'm talking about productivity use, and there the scaling is a real problem. You either have razer-sharp non-productive res (native retina) or blurry productivity res (1920 and even 1680 to an extent).

Again, for most so-called-enthusiast/expert Mac users with trophy-wife-grade computing needs at best, I expect the Retina mode to 'delight with magicality' but it doesn't work for me - which is why for me, the lesser evil is to run the panel at native res. It's hard going sometimes though, especially if the machine is more arms-length.

I guess also part of the problem is that I'm used to more practical panels on the equivalent-or-better Windows gear I operate.

You seem to have a lot of complaints about the MacBook Pro line that you aren't able to fully articulate.
 

badb0y

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2010
4,015
30
91
Let me ask this then, will Apple for the next gen max out the graphics memory for whatever chips they put in? I think having only 1 GB of the 650M last time was too little when it could have had 2 GB. A friend of mine says VRAM doesn't matter but I disagree.

Thoughts?

650M is to weak to use that much of VRAM effectively. The performance bottleneck will almost never come from a lack of VRAM but will come from the GPU itself running out of power.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
650M is to weak to use that much of VRAM effectively. The performance bottleneck will almost never come from a lack of VRAM but will come from the GPU itself running out of power.

Newer games use more than 1GB easily. My guess is maybe they couldn't fit 2GB in the machine.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
You seem to have a lot of complaints about the MacBook Pro line that you aren't able to fully articulate.

Maybe not enough to get through to a fanboi head.

I appreciate the (relative - again this Apple here, you'd have to go pretty consumer before you get similar performance in Windows-land) improvement in cooling over the previous unibodies which makes them more usable, but screenwise I'd have been comparatively happier if they'd shrunk the high-res 17" to the 15"- but obviously that wouldn't have been enough for the marketing dept.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
Maybe not enough to get through to a fanboi head.

Ad hominem.

I appreciate the (relative - again this Apple here, you'd have to go pretty consumer before you get similar performance in Windows-land) improvement in cooling over the previous unibodies which makes them more usable, but screenwise I'd have been comparatively happier if they'd shrunk the high-res 17" to the 15"- but obviously that wouldn't have been enough for the marketing dept.

You still haven't really said what's wrong with the retina display, or scaling. I'm not sure which you're complaining about.
 

Ice_Dragon

Senior member
Nov 17, 2011
236
0
71
650M is too weak to use that much of VRAM effectively. The performance bottleneck will almost never come from a lack of VRAM but will come from the GPU itself running out of power.

Newer games use more than 1GB easily. My guess is maybe they couldn't fit 2GB in the machine.

This could explain the rumored redesign. Though yeah I agree on the weakness even though it is a mid-range graphics card in general.

That is why I would never buy it though. I will stick with the Mac mini and if I want a Pro machine I will buy one.
 

Tegeril

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2003
2,906
5
81
Ad hominem.



You still haven't really said what's wrong with the retina display, or scaling. I'm not sure which you're complaining about.

He came in with a preconceived notion and isn't interested in explaining it properly or embracing the discussion of another point of view. If someone thinks the 1680 and 1920 scaled modes on the retina display looks blurry I'm left wondering if they have an astigmatism that only manifests itself when touching a Mac.

If you can't see the pixels...
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,448
262
126
Newer games use more than 1GB easily. My guess is maybe they couldn't fit 2GB in the machine.

You missed the point. The 650m isn' FAST ENOUGH to utilize more than 1gb. Even if they could fit another 1gb, it wouldn't be used.

Also you only need more video memory for quality settings over resolution (although resolution adds to it).
 

joshhedge

Senior member
Nov 19, 2011
601
0
0
You missed the point. The 650m isn' FAST ENOUGH to utilize more than 1gb. Even if they could fit another 1gb, it wouldn't be used.

Also you only need more video memory for quality settings over resolution (although resolution adds to it).

I'm going to agree here. Running skyrim in bootcamp with HD texture packs at 1920*1200 I'm hovering around the 35-40FPS mark at ultra - no AA. If the 650M was faster, I could use AA without a significant performance hit like I would now, but I'd probably hit the VRAM limitation.
 
Last edited:

vshin

Member
Sep 24, 2009
74
0
0
I'm running native retina for everything other than games. I can see why some folks would lower res for older legacy software due to scaling issues but most modern software can support retina resolutions with impressive results. I also tested 1920 res for a while but I didn't notice any "blurriness." Before MS Office was upgraded with native support, you could see some "blockiness" in the UI text but that is a different issue.
 

dawks

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,071
2
81
Ad hominem.

You still haven't really said what's wrong with the retina display, or scaling. I'm not sure which you're complaining about.

He came in with a preconceived notion and isn't interested in explaining it properly or embracing the discussion of another point of view. If someone thinks the 1680 and 1920 scaled modes on the retina display looks blurry I'm left wondering if they have an astigmatism that only manifests itself when touching a Mac.

If you can't see the pixels...

Yea I think he doesn't understands how a 'Retina' display works or just likes to complain like cheez.

Maybe hes angry his 15" panel isnt actually 2880x1800? (obviously you wouldnt be able to read the screen without a magnifying glass, hence the 'scaling')..

My biggest frustration (and not really a problem besides the fact that a 'Retina' display is just a huge leap ahead in display technology) is that not everything looks great on such a high res display. bitmap graphics need to be updated from the long time standard of 72dpi to look good. Its only a matter of time, so patience is a virtue.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
You missed the point. The 650m isn' FAST ENOUGH to utilize more than 1gb. Even if they could fit another 1gb, it wouldn't be used.

"Fast enough" has nothing to do with it. Lots of features like anisotropic filtering, high resolution textures, and buffering have only a minimal effect on processor usage, but a large effect on memory usage.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
Yea I think he doesn't understands how a 'Retina' display works or just likes to complain like cheez.

Maybe hes angry his 15" panel isnt actually 2880x1800? (obviously you wouldnt be able to read the screen without a magnifying glass, hence the 'scaling')..

My biggest frustration (and not really a problem besides the fact that a 'Retina' display is just a huge leap ahead in display technology) is that not everything looks great on such a high res display. bitmap graphics need to be updated from the long time standard of 72dpi to look good. Its only a matter of time, so patience is a virtue.

Except that the panel IS 2880*1800, you just can't access that resolution through System Preferences, you have to use a 3rd party utility.
 

Ice_Dragon

Senior member
Nov 17, 2011
236
0
71
Apple always has issues with Rev. A products so even though the 650M wasn't the best card to launch with it right away but as time goes on they will hit perfection.

This year will be decent and next year with Maxwell (if they use it), things will be awesome.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
35
91
Apple always has issues with Rev. A products so even though the 650M wasn't the best card to launch with it right away but as time goes on they will hit perfection.

This year will be decent and next year with Maxwell (if they use it), things will be awesome.

Even the non-retina has a 650M, which is confusing as I'd think they'd have more cooling to work with having all that extra space. Here's hoping for MXM in the next generation.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |