Great Game Graphics: Who Cares?

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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From GameSpy Weekly (not sure I can provide the link as it shows up in my e-mail . . . I guess their site has it but I'm LAZY):

At last month's Game Developer's Conference, Naughty Dog founder Jason Rubin (Jak and Daxter, Crash Bandicoot) gave a lecture entitled "Great Game Graphics: Who Cares?" Coming from a company known for pushing systems to the limit and selling tens of millions of games due (in part) to having some of the most incredible graphics available for their respective system, the tone of the presentation was a bit of a shocker.

Rubin wasn't trying to say that graphics in games were no longer important. He was saying that the breakneck pace of graphical development that defined the first 30-odd years of the industry is no longer going to be the driving force behind the types of games people make and the types of games that sell. By way of example he traced the history of several game genres. For example: Tennis. You start with Pong, which had the essential elements: two players and a ball. By the time you get to the Intellivision or Nintendo 8-bit era, you can switch perspectives, allowing you to show the height of the ball and adding depth (literally) to gameplay. Later hardware was actually able to put 3D modeled players on a 3D court, strengthening gameplay by giving gamers realistic player positions and timing. With the current generation of hardware, the player models are so good that game developers feel obliged to zoom in on them after each volley to show them off. Videogame tennis is, from a distance, indistinguishable from a real live tennis match on TV.

Graphically, it's still possible to do more: in subsequent generations of hardware, we could (for instance) render each hair on the tennis player's head, or add in beads of sweat. Their eyes could follow the ball. Hell, we could render each individual racket string. But here's Rubin's point: "How's it gonna change the game?" he asks. Current graphics technology is able to provide all the fundamentals needed for a realistic tennis game.

You can trace a similar evolution with fighting games (from 2D sprites to digitized people to 3D flat-shaded models to what we have today -- fully rendered 3D environments and realistic 3D characters moving within them). Or first-person shooters. Each generation of graphical technology added a whole new depth to the gameplay ... until today. There's no doubt that the lighting effects of Doom 3 or Deus Ex 2 are visually stunning, but the technological leap won't affect gameplay as much as the leap from, say, the "flat-3D" fakery of Doom 1 to the full 3D environment of Quake 1.

Graphics No Longer Need to be "Cutting Edge" to Impress

The success of games like Grand Theft Auto 3 and the Tony Hawk Pro Skater series underscore the point. Both games use the Renderware game engine, which (owing in part to its flexibility) isn't a state-of-the-art system. Your typical screenshot from Tony Hawk isn't pushing nearly as many polygons or showing off nearly as many effects as a cutting-edge PS2 game. But most gamers are hard-pressed to notice the difference; the game still works and it's damn fun. With previous generations of hardware (such as the PSOne) the difference between a cutting-edge game and typical games was significant; gamers noticed the difference between a few hundred polygons or a few thousand, and many games (ones with intricate levels, for instance) weren't even possible without pushing the envelope. The situation is different today: the difference between a 50,000 polygon model and a 150,000 polygon model is mostly cosmetic. Everything necessary to create living breathing characters capable of depicting action and emotion onscreen is available. Future enhancements are just gravy, not gameplay.

This is a pretty big shift, and it's going to shift the way people make games and the way people buy them. "What are we going to do to expand what we do?" Rubin asked his audience. "How are we going to draw people in?" His talk left the question unanswered. In fact, it was a kind of challenge directed at the audience. What's next?

What Will Sell in 2004 and Beyond?

I'm going to take a st@b ["forbidden word - haha"] at picking up where Rubin left off. Obviously one way to bring people to a new game is to attach it to a license, be it a sequel or a movie license. But if you're like me, you're a lover of original games, fresh ideas and new characters created for gaming alone. So I'm going to tackle it from that angle: What will make original games sell?

The short (but by no means definitive) answer I suggest is two things: Artistry and Interactivity. Let's assume that great graphics are a given. Within the next generation of tech (or perhaps you can argue the time is already here), even run-of-the-mill developers will have the ability to render fully-functional 3D worlds with as much detail as needed to impact gameplay. What will the crucial differences be?

Artistry: A Unified Vision

What do I mean by artistry? It's the writing of a game's story and the style of its graphics. Blizzard's PC games are brilliant examples of artistry. When you play WarCraft III, every element of the game world, every character, every tree, every voice oozes style -- a style uniquely WarCraft. Despite the size of the creative team, a single unified vision was behind the game that made it stronger and more engrossing.

An even better example is found in Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. There is absolutely nothing technically cutting-edge about the graphics: The cel-shading and sprites and lighting effects aren't technologically groundbreaking. But look at what happens when they're executed with a unique and focused artistic direction! Players are dropped into a living cartoon where characters express emotions as big as the epic story they find themselves a part of. The simplicity of the way the world is rendered strengthens the game because nearly everything that IS on the screen is relevant; every rock can be interacted with, and even the very blades of grass can hold secrets.

While I was playing through the game, I was climbing a cliff on a particular island and I decided to stop, take a breather, and look around with my telescope. Way up toward the top of the mountain I saw an outcropping with a bird's nest on top. The bird was up there, chillin' out, looking around. "I'll probably have to go up there someday," I said to myself. (I did, a few hours later.) I swiveled my telescope over and spent a little while watching the seagulls swoop and dive and float around on the breezes. Then I checked out some distant islands. One just looked like a rock jutting out to the sea -- I didn't think it would be too interesting. A little bit over though, I saw a big island with several mesas and structures -- I figured someday I would have to visit there. I traced my telescope along the shore until I saw my boat in the harbor where I'd left it. I zoomed in on my boat's figurehead/face, and then while I was watching my boat YAWNED.

There was no scripted sequence in the game's story that called for me to pull out my telescope -- it was my decision. And yet every detail in the world was active and alive all around me, promising future adventures. The designers made it easy for me to get lost in Zelda's world, completely and utterly. That's artistry.

Interactivity: Come Play in My Sandbox

Interactivity is what sets games apart from nearly every other entertainment. In previous eras, due perhaps to the limits of the size of levels that could be created and objects that could be placed in them, graphically intense games played very linearly. But as game developers and gamers we're beginning to step outside the box. When I played Deus Ex for the PC, I was impressed by how many ways I could tackle each particular level, solving problems in any of a dozen different ways. But when Grand Theft Auto 3 hit the scene for PS2, I, like many others, was simply blown away by how open the world was. Here was a whole city as my playground. If it had wheels, I could steal it. If it had a gas tank, I could blow it up. Most missions could be solved on my own terms. Yet, despite all I could do, there was still more that I wanted: I wanted to go inside of buildings. I wanted to be able to hire thugs, form my own gangs, claim my own turf ... you name it. GTA3 simultaneously opened our eyes to what's possible with today's technology and how much more there is to be done.

Graphics can give us game worlds, but interactivity -- clever, fun, focused interactivity -- will bring them to life.

Sadly, the examples I used above are almost all sequels. Which perhaps kills my argument on behalf of "original" games. Still, I believe that artistry and interactivity will be the defining characteristics of gaming's future. If only they were as easily shown on the back of a box as flashy screenshots! . . .
I gotta agree.
 

NEVERwinter

Senior member
Dec 24, 2001
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yes, I agree. I have the same opinion since I saw the birth and death of Playstation console. I mean.... look at the 1st generation games on PSX (Suikoden, Tales of Destiny, etc.) they looks just like a SNES games with better resolution and smoother sprites. Compare them to the last generation games (FF9, Leg. of Dragoon, etc.) which have superb graphics with the same machine. It impressed me how those developer can push the machine to its limit in 4-5 years. Unlike in PC where most of us upgrading their machine in every year (or maybe less). I believe even we havent the limit of DX8 yet and now we've been pushed to the DX9, I really believe that PC has more potential than console. Maybe....
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
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Totally agreed - graphics are neat, yes, but they don't make the game. I just got done playing frozen-bubble for a couple hours (ADDICTING), it's just snes-level 2d graphics.
Almost every one of my favorite games is in 2d. Modern games tend to lack the charm that older ones did, it's not "special" anymore.
 

TheOmegaCode

Platinum Member
Aug 7, 2001
2,954
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although graphics do make a difference imo, they aren't the defining factor. i'm have a merry old time playing black and white (spending way too much time on that damn game) as well as old rpg's, id est: chrono trigger, zelda a link from the past, etc...
 

Slogun

Platinum Member
Jul 4, 2001
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I suppose I will also have to agree that graphics is of secondary importance to gameplay.
Especially since 99% of my game time is spent on Countestrike. It's quite an old engine, but the variability of online play against live, ever-changing opponents is what keeps it fresh, fun and exciting for me.
 

Davegod

Platinum Member
Nov 26, 2001
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spot on article

Unreal 2, well i looked around thought "oh, very nice" without so much as a smile and level2 crapped out the graphics because its more important it plays well and smoothly than looks nice, which tbh i didnt think it was that great anyway except for the hi res textures (yawn). the zela comment really nails the point though; developers seem to think the idea is cram more pixels etc in the sapce up to the fogging, rather than say, get rid of the stupid fogging :/ Anyone new to PC gaming i'd say to go buy half life, not unreal 2 or MOH or whatever, because HL is the best singleplayer game even if graphics are quite a bit behind.
 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
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Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooeyAlmost every one of my favorite games is in 2d. Modern games tend to lack the charm that older ones did, it's not "special" anymore.

I feel the same way, exactly. For me atleast, there is no real replacement for good gameplay.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: wizardLRU
Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooeyAlmost every one of my favorite games is in 2d. Modern games tend to lack the charm that older ones did, it's not "special" anymore.

I feel the same way, exactly. For me atleast, there is no real replacement for good gameplay.
While reading this article, I thought - this is all so incredibly obvious . . . an yet the article is really well-written.


I am SO TEMPTED to get a GC just to play Zelda WW . . . think it'll EVER make it to PC?
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
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Originally posted by: wizardLRU
Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooeyAlmost every one of my favorite games is in 2d. Modern games tend to lack the charm that older ones did, it's not "special" anymore.

I feel the same way, exactly. For me atleast, there is no real replacement for good gameplay.

i'm starting to think this is childhood nostolgia talking. i'm sure other generations will say the exact same thing
 

BFG10K

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
22,709
3,000
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While gameplay is certainly the most important part of a game, the graphics are still very important to me as well. Of course it depends on the game as to just how important they are.

FPSes in particular require very good graphics for me to like them.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,938
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This is nothing new... of course things like 'artistry' and 'interactivity' are important... they've always been, and always will be. That won't change. And graphics ARE important. How well would Warcraft 3 be if it used the same graphics engine it had in Warcraft 1? Or if Legend of Zelda used SNES graphics? Look at Doom3... we know absolutely nothing about it but the graphics, and we're already drooling over it.

There's absolutely nothing new in that article. You can make the best visual game around, but if it lacks content, nobody will play it. I think the MMORPG shows this most salient. Everquest, even though outdated, and grahpics are sub-par to it's competitor, is leaps and bounds ahead of it's competitors in subscription. Content does play a big role, but Verant was intelligent enough to realize that it's graphics was well behind it's competitor, and did upgrade the models and textures.

We live in a world where visual perception is so important, it's ignorant to think it won't apply to games... when a consumer walks into a store, and sees a shelf full of games, and with no review of all the games, how is he to choose? What are the criterias? Of course title franchise are important, but aside from that, graphics WILL play a huge role in him choosing the game. He'll look through the pretty pictures, and pick one that appeals to him. Now, whether he enjoys the game is dependent on content... but also graphics. I know i've enjoyed my games more when i move from a 19" monitor to a 24" monitor. And that's all visual.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: BFG10K
While gameplay is certainly the most important part of a game, the graphics are still very important to me as well. Of course it depends on the game as to just how important they are.

FPSes in particular require very good graphics for me to like them.
Nobody is suggesting that we should all be playing Doom-I graphics. The main point was:
Rubin wasn't trying to say that graphics in games were no longer important. He was saying that the breakneck pace of graphical development that defined the first 30-odd years of the industry is no longer going to be the driving force behind the types of games people make and the types of games that sell.

In other words, some games are clearly "graphics driven" . . . the BEST ones are story-driven with great interactivity.


i'm starting to think this is childhood nostolgia talking. i'm sure other generations will say the exact same thing
Impossible!. There is no way to have the same rapid kind of gaming "progress" of the first 3 decades of computer gaming. I am not talking "graphics" as soon we WILL have cinematic quality . . . but "original" ideas?

Right NOW there are continual complaints from (especially older) gamers that there isn't "anything new" - that most of the best games (today) are sequels. I don't think it going to get much better. Original "Gems" are harder and harder to find.
 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Well, here's my list of games I play once in a while.
FPS - Quake1, Half Life(not CS, CS has sucked since beta 5.x).
RTS - StarCraft, CnC Generals
TBS - Civ3, XCom:TFTD/UFO:EU
RPG - Fallout 1&2, Baldurs Gate 2
Other: Freespace 1&2, misc NES/SNES/SEGA Genesis games

Out of those, CnC Generals in the only one whose GFX could be considdered good by todays standards, so I guess that means I agree

Most(as in 99%) games these days are just plain boring.
 

WeeWolf

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Dec 11, 2002
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Personally I don't much care if the graphics are not state of the art for most any game. These days most any single player game will put me to sleep. I've been playing online only for almost 4 years now I think I've spent a maximum of maybe 6 hours gaming on any single player game in all that time. Nothing is as immersive as a human opponant. Essentially I agree but my guess is the most popular games in the times to come will be Massive Multiplayer and artistic. Games like Planetside I think will be the future of FPS genre and we've already seen the effect of games like Everquest on the RPG genre.
 

KillaBong

Senior member
Nov 26, 2002
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the graphics matter to me... when they actually do start rendering every little hair and everything you'll never turn back
 

thornc

Golden Member
Nov 29, 2000
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I have to say that Gameplay is the most important factor in a game!

Taking Freelancer as an example, I just finished playing the demo... the game looks nice, but it only plays nice to a small extend; meanning put it up against any Elite and it looses on gameplay big time!!! Another example are those RTS games, they're all based on
"Dune 2" with better graphics, but in the end they all play like Dune2....

And I think the reason that old adventure games like the one that Sierra used to produce ended up almost disappearing because the producers started getting more concerned about the great graphics then on gameplay!!!

The best example of a good idea with suitable graphics is "The Sims", that was a great game.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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the graphics matter to me... when they actually do start rendering every little hair and everything you'll never turn back

Doubt it. Most of the time I see a game that's touted to have the greatest graphics available I start it up to look at it and ooh and aah for a few minutes then turn it off because I got bored.

I would much rather startup HL again because the gameplay and story was so great than play most games available today.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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Originally posted by: Sunner
Well, here's my list of games I play once in a while.
FPS - Quake1, Half Life(not CS, CS has sucked since beta 5.x).
RTS - StarCraft, CnC Generals
TBS - Civ3, XCom:TFTD/UFO:EU
RPG - Fallout 1&2, Baldurs Gate 2
Other: Freespace 1&2, misc NES/SNES/SEGA Genesis games

Out of those, CnC Generals in the only one whose GFX could be considdered good by todays standards, so I guess that means I agree

Most(as in 99%) games these days are just plain boring.

i guess you haven't tried 1942 and its desert combat mod. multiplayer and sweet!!

nolf 2 is also good
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Originally posted by: KillaBong
the graphics matter to me... when they actually do start rendering every little hair and everything you'll never turn back
Who isN'T looking forward to a fully functional "holodeck"?



However, WHAT DIFFERENCE would it make - In Serious Sam (for an extreme example) - IF the world was PERFECTLY rendered on the screen? You simply wouldn't have TIME to appreciate the eye-candy.

Personally, I'd like to see better AI (since human opponents are not available to me - as in multiplayer - since I have crappy dial-up).

 

ArmchairAthlete

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2002
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I am SO TEMPTED to get a GC just to play Zelda WW . . . think it'll EVER make it to PC?

It won't hit PCs ever as a released retail product. MAYBE some day years from now if there was a good Gamecube emulator your could play it on your PC, but I wouldn't count on that. Just beat Zelda:TWW on my Gamecube and I loved it. Getting a Gamecube is a good idea, also pick up Metroid Prime, Super Smash Bros. Melee (awesome multiplayer), and maybe even Resident Evil 1 and 0 if you like RE.

If I were you I'd go out and use Nintendo's deal where you get Metroid Prime FREE with a Gamecube for $150. A month ago you could have gotten 3 free games if you preordered WW in addition to that, as you got a promo disc with Zelda: Ocarina of Time, and Ocarina of Time: Master Quest on it.



as well as old rpg's, id est: chrono trigger, zelda a link from the past

Hell yea... CT and LttP rock even today.



As for graphics I think GAMEPLAY and LASTABILITY are the most important factors, graphics coming in third. I want a game that is FUN to play, and I won't beat in a weekend and have nothing else to do in it. Graphics are nice as icing on the cake.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
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Thanks for the tip on the GC . . . I am a pretty dyed-in-the-wool PC gamer (my last console was the Genesis) and it would take a LOT for me to get any console (ever) . . . but who knows . . . If I get "disposable cash" and a hot deal, who knows.



I know Zelda tWW won't make it to PC . . . too bad (has any Zelda made the cross?).

However, there are PLENTY of great PC games to look forward to.

On graphics: To give an example . . . (a sad one) . . . My Soyo TISU (POS) MB has known problems with AGP cards . . . my 8500 is out currently while an OLD 32 MB SDR Radeon (PCI) is in it's stead. I was at the end of the "marine" part of AvPII (at 1024x768, everything Hi and Maxed) and now it's 640x480, details extra-low, etc.

You know what . . . even though it's definitely not so great visually (anymore) - It's STILL fun.
 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
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Great graphics can rarely save a bad game but great graphics can boost a mediocre game's sales and that's why publisher's continue to push visuals.

I disagree with the article on some points:
Current graphics technology is able to provide all the fundamentals needed for a realistic tennis game.
No, tennis games can be made more realistic and visual improvements will help in that regard.

Graphics will continue to get better but we may not see another huge leap for a long while. Something along the lines of truly innovative, workable and affordable 3D glasses/goggles maybe?

Of course we all want story, gameplay and eye candy wrapped in one game.
 

masterxfob

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
7,366
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if graphics truly did not matter, wouldn't many of us still be playing pen and paper D&D or reading a book (at least for the RPG lovers)? while graphics does not make a game, it certainly can make a game better.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
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Howdy JB.

I think you are missing a key word in your disagreements with the article on the "tennis" example. It says all the FUNDAMENTALS are already there for "realism". Now it IS possible to render more detail (individual hairs, sweat beads, tennis racket strings) BUT would detail make "gameplay better"?

And I think PC graphics are going to "take off" starting NOW as Direct X9 games are finally realized and programmers get familiar with the new programmable features. The next 3 years are going to be a giant leap forward graphically. The 9700Pro will be a MINIMUM GPU in 3 years. (all IMO)

Graphics DO matter. But secondary to gameplay.

 

Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
11,641
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Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Sunner
Well, here's my list of games I play once in a while.
FPS - Quake1, Half Life(not CS, CS has sucked since beta 5.x).
RTS - StarCraft, CnC Generals
TBS - Civ3, XCom:TFTD/UFO:EU
RPG - Fallout 1&2, Baldurs Gate 2
Other: Freespace 1&2, misc NES/SNES/SEGA Genesis games

Out of those, CnC Generals in the only one whose GFX could be considdered good by todays standards, so I guess that means I agree

Most(as in 99%) games these days are just plain boring.

i guess you haven't tried 1942 and its desert combat mod. multiplayer and sweet!!

nolf 2 is also good

No I haven't, I guess I should, especially seeing as a relative of mine is one of the fellas that started Digital Illusions, got me a couple of their previous games for free
Sometimes I even pick up games and end up not installing them cause I don't even expect to be entertained these days.
 
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