GTX 285 or 295 ?

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bryanW1995

Lifer
May 22, 2007
11,144
32
91
Originally posted by: bimmerboy
well if the enthusiast plays games like crysis, does some websurfing and does some video editing stuff (i hear nvidia has some apps that are good at that) and the said enthusiast prefers nvidia. also doesnt seemed concerned with power draw, heat and the like. let him/her get a 295 and enjoy

hmmm, let's see, 1. crysis, 2. video editing, 3. prefers nvidia, 4. no concern with power draw.

let's hit those one at a time:

1. crysis is slightly better on a gtx 295. However, in the next 3 years it is highly likely that 5870 will meet and/or surpass gtx 295 because amd will spend lots of time and money optimizing its drivers and nvidia will NOT spend much more time at all on 295 as soon as gt300 gets here.

2. "some" video editing will not see enough of a boost from a gtx 295 to a 5870 to be relevant most likely. If he was doing "a lot" of video editing and we could assume that over the next 3 years the gtx 295 would continue to outperform 5870 in this area it would be different, but we simply don't know about that and this seems to be a small part of the op's requirements.

3. there is nothing that the OP has said or done to indicate a preference for green or red, if you look at what he's written he appears to have just assumed (as most people do) that nvidia has the fastest cards for gaming.

4. I did not see the OP post anywhere that he had no concern for power draw. In fact, how much money will he save over 3 years with a power sipping 5870 vs a gtx 295? $100? more? As a conservative estimate lets say that the 5870 will draw 50w less power under all conditions. that equates to 36kw/month. again lest assume a low power charge of 10 cents per kW*h, so $3.60 per month. that's about $45 per year, so closer to $135 over a 3 year period with conservative estimates.

oops: forgot to mention another significant advantage: no dual gpu headaches, OR the ability to live with the dual gpu headaches and get much better performance.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
"Panthur didn't ask about the pros and cons of both vendors." Correct!! He asked about the GTX285 and GTX295. Not about the 5850 and 5870, but you still offered them up easily enough. And you gave "details" why.

Dude, he asked about the GTX 285 and GTX 295, and got told they suck, because it's old gen and ATI has newer gen-cards which perform better (hd 5850) or has a card (hd 5870) that comes quite close to a GTX 295 with just a single gpu, for less money. Considering you want us to inform him the best we can, we pointed out these facts.

"I do not feel the need to inform every single videocard buyer about every little detail." Little detail? It's one of the most talked about features these days. People are even trying to hack the drivers to get it to work on their ATI equipped systems. Little detail. Sure.

It's one of the most talked about features by fanboys who can't stand the fact ATI has dx11 and Nvidia doesn't, and of course Nvidia themself (our $100 card outperforms ATI's HD 5870 in Batman, lol). Most if not all websites don't give a shit about physx or cuda in their reviews. From the polls I've held and seen, it's not a buying decision for people. Give it a rest, CUDA is here to die, openCL, directcompute etc etc are here to stay.

If they're bummed out because they can't use PhysX in batman after buying a HD5850, then they should have done their homework better." Umm... He WAS doing his homework, Marc. He came here. This forum and many forums like it across the internet is where most homework is done.

He should be doing MORE homework. If I tell him to buy a HD 5870 or HD 5850, he should figure out, okay, what does this videocard have or does this videocard not have, that I want.

But as you can see in most posts in this topic, videocards are still about rendering graphics, not about running computational applications." ATI videocards are still about rendering graphics. Nvidia cards are about rendering graphics, PhysX, and CUDA. Computational applications such as working with video encoding like the OP suggested? Those kinds of computational applications?

Now we're getting to the hilarious part. If he wanted gpu-accelerated video-encoding, he should have said gpu-accelerated video-encoding that gives shitty quality. AMD can also do gpu-accelerated video-encoding, fyi, but I don't care for it either coz it sucks.

Really, I missed the part where you said you wouldn't do any Nvidia marketing, but boy oh boy did it hurt to see EVERYONE recommend ATI over Nvidia? You had to try and make people mention Nvidia one way or another.

Edit: What I'm trying to say in the end is, my opinion is that videocards are still used for graphics rendering 95% of the time by mere consumers. Hence I didn't mention the 5850 being dx11 (that brings a standard with marketwide acceptance for gpgpu-stuff) but simply mentioned performance and price. If you want him to know about cuda and physx, tell him about, but don't call me out for not mentioning it.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
Hi, current Nvidia owner here.

The number of games I currently play in which hardware accelerated PhysX is important: 0.
The number of games where I expect hardware PhysX will be important in the near future: 0.
Importance of hardware PhysX to me today: 0.

However, there are already *two* A-list titles announced or shipping with DX11 support. Saving a few pennies a month on the ole electric bill is an advantage here and now. There is absolutely zero reason to buy a card purely because it supports PhysX -- the only title you're missing out on is one with artificial blocks for ATI hardware which can be circumvented. Personally I'm fine not buying that title if the developer doesn't want me to experience it fully on capable hardware of my choosing.

There is likewise zero reason to buy a *high end* video card without DX11 support. That would be like buying a SM2.0 card when SM3.0 cards are available. Makes sense at the low and midrange, but absolutely not at the high end.

NV had a chance to sell lots of midrange cards to ATI customers for use as PhysX processors, and to get widespread acceptance of the standard. They chose to play vendor lock-in games. PhysX can DIAF, and I'm by far not the only enthusiast to feel that way. We'll see if I'm part of the fringe or the mainstream soon enough.

If a person isn't already aware of the importance of PhysX and whether or not ATI supports it then it's nearly certain they don't need to know about it.

Oh, as far as Dragon Age: it's Bioware. They'll be smart enough to enable software PhysX for those of us with macho CPUs. The adoption rate of 5XXX series cards combined with NV EOLing the GT200 hardware will not go unnoticed by important game developers.
 

bimmerboy

Junior Member
Mar 6, 2007
21
0
0
well in his second post he/she did say they have "always" been a green supporter so i assumed thats their preference, which is why i just said 295 since green is what he/she is accustomed to.

i dont like to push people to uncharted waters until they have done enough research to make the jump from red to green/green to red on their own.

 

Informant X

Senior member
Jan 18, 2000
840
1
81
I think it's rediculous that you nv-homers are in here talking about "oh dont' forget to mention the p-word, or the c-word."

Please, as if we're going to sit here and dissect EVERY single pro and con of each card.
Bottom line is of the 10 or so games installed on my computer only 2 actually use your precious dying physics and one of them makes little use of it. So don't troll about c-word this and p-word that.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,682
329
126
Well, at least we know that anyone that recommends an ATI GPU over a NVIDIA one is a zoner...

Its the m-word and the other p-word.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
Well, at least we know that anyone that recommends an ATI GPU over a NVIDIA one is a zoner...

Its the m-word and the other p-word.

I guess you got the wrong message.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,682
329
126
Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
Well, at least we know that anyone that recommends an ATI GPU over a NVIDIA one is a zoner...

Its the m-word and the other p-word.

I guess you got the wrong message.

That might as well be, since english isn't my native language but

Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Yes, I was talking about P-word (PhysX) and the C-word (CUDA). I wanted to give the zoners an opportunity to be even handed.

did sound like that to me.

Apologies if I'm making an abusive interpretation, which I might be, especially cause the story of the P-word and the C-word, for some reason, wasn't very well digested by my system. I don't really know why, but just didn't.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
Well, at least we know that anyone that recommends an ATI GPU over a NVIDIA one is a zoner...

Well considering the OP never even asked for ATI....
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
Well, at least we know that anyone that recommends an ATI GPU over a NVIDIA one is a zoner...

Well considering the OP never even asked for ATI....


The Zoner parrots dont care what the OP asked for.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,682
329
126
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
Well, at least we know that anyone that recommends an ATI GPU over a NVIDIA one is a zoner...

Well considering the OP never even asked for ATI....

And he didn't ask for physX or Cuda either did he?

Or is it a problem to have a choice between 2 brands?
 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
81
Does the P word means Phony instead of Physics?

Does the C word means Cruddy instead of CUDA?

Its quite funny to see the green team fans getting upset when a "Zoner" recommends an ATi card over nVidia.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Does the P word means Phony instead of Physics?

Does the C word means Cruddy instead of CUDA?

Its quite funny to see the green team fans getting upset when a "Zoner" recommends an ATi card over nVidia.

The whole point is, the "zoners" didn't give the OP the full story, and to let him truly make up his own mind after being presented with all the data. You should have braved it out guys. You should have mentioned PhysX and CUDA for video editing. There was after all, a 50/50 chance he'd still go with the AMD suggestions. Right?
It's not mentioned, because it is a threat to a certain degree. And you felt it might be better not to mention it, else it would overly complicate things.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,682
329
126
Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Does the P word means Phony instead of Physics?

Does the C word means Cruddy instead of CUDA?

Its quite funny to see the green team fans getting upset when a "Zoner" recommends an ATi card over nVidia.

The whole point is, the "zoners" didn't give the OP the full story, and to let him truly make up his own mind after being presented with all the data. You should have braved it out guys. You should have mentioned PhysX and CUDA for video editing. There was after all, a 50/50 chance he'd still go with the AMD suggestions. Right?
It's not mentioned, because it is a threat to a certain degree. And you felt it might be better not to mention it, else it would overly complicate things.

So "zoners" are those that don't give a crap about cuda and physX. Aren't you forgetting 3dvision as well?

Anyway it is a good thing "zoners" don't mention physX and cuda. I always keep saying to my girl "don't go empty your food tray on the bin cause they are paying someone to do it and so you are endangering that person job". You can also bet they won't drop their prices if they save that pay check.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,211
50
91
Originally posted by: GaiaHunter
Originally posted by: Keysplayr
Originally posted by: evolucion8
Does the P word means Phony instead of Physics?

Does the C word means Cruddy instead of CUDA?

Its quite funny to see the green team fans getting upset when a "Zoner" recommends an ATi card over nVidia.

The whole point is, the "zoners" didn't give the OP the full story, and to let him truly make up his own mind after being presented with all the data. You should have braved it out guys. You should have mentioned PhysX and CUDA for video editing. There was after all, a 50/50 chance he'd still go with the AMD suggestions. Right?
It's not mentioned, because it is a threat to a certain degree. And you felt it might be better not to mention it, else it would overly complicate things.

So "zoners" are those that don't give a crap about cuda and physX. Aren't you forgetting 3dvision as well?

Anyway it is a good thing "zoners" don't mention physX and cuda. I always keep saying to my girl "don't go empty your food tray on the bin cause they are paying someone to do it and so you are endangering that person job". You can also bet they won't drop their prices if they save that pay check.

Oh, no no no. They do, they do. And who knows, the conversation could have went further to Eyefinity and 3DVision. Point is, it wasn't given the chance.
And don't think I didn't catch your analogy there. Please don't slide any lower.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,682
329
126
Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Oh, no no no. They do, they do. And who knows, the conversation could have went further to Eyefinity and 3DVision. Point is, it wasn't given the chance.

Because recommending a 5870 over a GTX295 or a 5850 over a GTX285 is pathetic and is completely fanboi comment?

Are we reading the same thread where bryanW1995 talked about Cuda and physX on the #5 post and you came with the c-word and p-word on post #14?

Originally posted by: bryanW1995

Nvidia does have physix and cuda, though one or both of those will probably be overtaken by open-source in the next few years.

Yeah, it might be that many of us are wrong and physX and cuda will be the thing to get on the PC. But it seems that to ignore physX atm is quite valid, especially when people were saying that physX would be taking off one year ago and one year later we have 13(?) games using it, most second or worse tier games, and even the one that seems to be a high profile game, physX isn't particularly earth shaking and the game merits are dissociated from physX?

It also seems valid to ignore cuda for gaming unless someone specifically states they are going to use it.

And don't think I didn't catch your analogy there. Please don't slide any lower.

Yep, it was written for you to catch it. And are you going to talk about graphic cards and nvidia on its merits or flaws or from now on you will simple bash other peoples opinion by calling them "zoners" or "Charlie Demerjian crew"? Once can be seen as irony. More than that and it starts to smell.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
I must say you mods are pretty dam good . But Really the op should read reviews to make decision . I see he made the correct choice. Thanks to those who pointed out the facts . Nv makes good product. Just their behind 8 ball right now. IF NV comes with the 385 soon . It will help but I doubt it will be soon .

I know its a little OT. But OP made decision already.

There is something I would like to point out . Larrabee as some have said that Intel making a Gpu = to ATI/NV not likely . I won't debate that as its unknown .

What I will debate is Intel having a hard time creating a cpu gpu vs NV creating a CPU /GPU . Which will be harder? I know so lets just wait and see they both should arrive around same time . As NV stated. ATI has shown its cards or hand. What makes ya believe that Intel will do the same . perhaps intel is waiting for NV to show its hand .

Why did PAT G leave intel ? IF it was unfriendly Intel created an enemy that has a brain in its head . Bad idea. If it was friewndly look for a takeover of Pats new company down the road. A plan possiably. Who knows but the parties involved .

I am surprized that the utube video of the 300 hasn't been posted its a fake. Read at XS.
 
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