GTX295 exposed.

[Tempered81]

Originally posted by: pcslookout

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Well it looks like nV will have the crown back.

Not that it is that big of a deal. I dont see too many 4870x2s around here, but I bet that is because of the price. I hope the 260GX2 is not too expensive.

Personally I am waiting for the new chips, not shrinks.

Yeah I am sick of all of these shrinks and want a new chip!

Well get used to it. The known next gen R800 is a dual core - dual chip PCI-E solution. Wether it be on one PCB or two, the high-end is still multi-chip and possibly multi-core MCM.
In the average of benchies, i can see this 260GX2 "GTX 295" beating the 4870X2.
The real surprise will hopefully either be NV's next gen on 40nm to compete with RV870, the future of raytracing/larabee, or lucid's hydra.

 

[Insomniator]

I don't mind people being angry that a new setup comes out soon after an upgrade. What is really annoying is when people complain they can't play games on max settings.. like what the game actually looks like does not matter, just what those sliders are on (think crysis).

Make the game look worse just as long as I can say I can play it on max settings!!!1

 

[aznxk3vi17]

Actually, since I haven't actually received my second 260 yet (I bought one as an early upgrade), I should probably just return the second card unopened and use my step-up on the original card, saving me a bunch of money from selling a used card.

Still, I really hope somebody can get their hands on this card and do some benchmarks - I am not a huge fan of multi-GPU setups myself, but if 260s in SLI come within 5% of the performance of this new card, even if that means giving up that PCI-E slot, I'd rather stick with the SLI setup (probably cheaper too).

 

[IlllI]

can it play doom?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
For everybody joshing at MTDEW, he is actually right, if we're just concerning my case.

I ordered parts for a new i7 box just two days ago. Obviously, I would have stuck to my 8800GTX (or even the single 260) while keeping the rest of the upgrades had I known that this card was due so soon, with 480 shaders as opposed to 432.

This kind of stuff will always happen though. Even if NVIDIA themselves had announced these parts 3 days ago, some other guy would be posting, "Man, I just ordered GTX280 SLi the day before".

That's just the risk anyone takes when they buy.

I understand the "best of best" thing, but really your position is no different as you could have ordered two GTX280s, three GTX280s, three Core 216s, or three GTX260 Original Recipes and had more power then as well.

I think two Core 216s is a kick ass rig personally, one I'd be more than proud of with an i7. Someone will always have something bigger, and something better will always be right around the corner.

I'd just "enjoy" if I were you.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: MTDEW
Yeah ive noticed this with every x-fire and SLi setup ive had so far.
Its a shame that most benchmarks ony show average framerates and rarely show min framerates.
The dual card setups look great in benchmarks, but in all honesty, i feel im personally better off with the fastest single GPU i can get from now on, because i hate those stutters.

nRollo, can you elaborate more on exactly what causes the dual cards to stutter at low framwerates when single GPU cards don't?
And will it ever be cured or is it always going to be a dual GPU side effect?

I'm not the microstutter scientist some have become because it doesn't bother me as much as it does others.

That said, as I understand it the microstutter is caused by your perception of the uneven render times between frames caused by AFR load balancing.

The lower the framerate gets the easier it is to notice. So running UT2004 with a minimum framerate of 150fps you don't notice because it's flying anyway. When the framerates get down around 30 where the transition between frames is more apparent, you see it.

That's my understanding of it anyway, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I've only given the issue minimal attention because I think the benefits of multi GPU outweigh the negatives, but can respect that there are people who prefer a fast single GPU.

 

[aznxk3vi17]

Originally posted by: nRollo

This kind of stuff will always happen though. Even if NVIDIA themselves had announced these parts 3 days ago, some other guy would be posting, "Man, I just ordered GTX280 SLi the day before".

That's just the risk anyone takes when they buy.

I understand the "best of best" thing, but really your position is no different as you could have ordered two GTX280s, three GTX280s, three Core 216s, or three GTX260 Original Recipes and had more power then as well.

I think two Core 216s is a kick ass rig personally, one I'd be more than proud of with an i7. Someone will always have something bigger, and something better will always be right around the corner.

I'd just "enjoy" if I were you.

Of course, I'll enjoy whatever my upgrade ends up being. However, if the GTX 295 turns out to be less than $600 and has better benchmarks, I have a clear and easy way to upgrade it (return the unused 260, step-up to the 295). Do you really think I'd be better off just keeping the two 260s?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17

Originally posted by: nRollo

This kind of stuff will always happen though. Even if NVIDIA themselves had announced these parts 3 days ago, some other guy would be posting, "Man, I just ordered GTX280 SLi the day before".

That's just the risk anyone takes when they buy.

I understand the "best of best" thing, but really your position is no different as you could have ordered two GTX280s, three GTX280s, three Core 216s, or three GTX260 Original Recipes and had more power then as well.

I think two Core 216s is a kick ass rig personally, one I'd be more than proud of with an i7. Someone will always have something bigger, and something better will always be right around the corner.

I'd just "enjoy" if I were you.

Of course, I'll enjoy whatever my upgrade ends up being. However, if the GTX 295 turns out to be less than $600 and has better benchmarks, I have a clear and easy way to upgrade it (return the unused 260, step-up to the 295). Do you really think I'd be better off just keeping the two 260s?

I can't comment on what the GTX295 is, and I honestly don't know what it will cost. I haven't seen it compared to a Core216 SLi rig either, so there's too many unknowns and too much NDA info in play for me to give you my true opinion that.

If it concerns you I don't think you can do yourself any harm leaving the step up avenue open.

I've been using a single Core 216 on my 3007WFP-HC for a while and think it's a very capable performer even as a single card, at any resolution.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: MTDEW
Yeah ive noticed this with every x-fire and SLi setup ive had so far.
Its a shame that most benchmarks ony show average framerates and rarely show min framerates.
The dual card setups look great in benchmarks, but in all honesty, i feel im personally better off with the fastest single GPU i can get from now on, because i hate those stutters.

nRollo, can you elaborate more on exactly what causes the dual cards to stutter at low framwerates when single GPU cards don't?
And will it ever be cured or is it always going to be a dual GPU side effect?

I'm not the microstutter scientist some have become because it doesn't bother me as much as it does others.

That said, as I understand it the microstutter is caused by your perception of the uneven render times between frames caused by AFR load balancing.

The lower the framerate gets the easier it is to notice. So running UT2004 with a minimum framerate of 150fps you don't notice because it's flying anyway. When the framerates get down around 30 where the transition between frames is more apparent, you see it.

That's my understanding of it anyway, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I've only given the issue minimal attention because I think the benefits of multi GPU outweigh the negatives, but can respect that there are people who prefer a fast single GPU.

Yep Microstutter is caused by inconsistent delay between rendered frames. Basically the 2nd GPU begins rendering frames too soon resulting in a delay for the 3rd frame by the 1st GPU. This is in contrast to a single GPU which will only render as fast as it can finish the first frame, so even if there are fluctations on frame rates they will transition accordingly.

The reason its less noticeable at higher FPS, particularly at FPS above your monitors refresh rate is because higher frame rate reduces the time between frames, normalizing any delay more evenly.

For example, if you have a 60Hz refresh and 60FPS that's 1000/60 = 16.67ms between frames for perfectly even distribution. If you have 30FPS that's 33.33ms between frames if they're evenly distributed, but with multi-GPU and 30FPS you might get 16.67, 50, 16.67, 50ms etc resulting in the perceived microstutter. Once your FPS hit refresh and exceed it the intervals will decrease or sync to refresh if you have Vsync enabled.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You say you've had your desktop for over a week? Throw that junk away man it's an antique!

Sad...


What's even worse is that I know the next line:

Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great... if you could use a nice, heavy paperweight.


It'll be interesting to see if this really can be priced to compete with the 4870X2. The GPUs are larger and more expensive to produce, there are two separate PCBs and a very non-typical cooling solution.

 

[MTDEW]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You say you've had your desktop for over a week? Throw that junk away man it's an antique!

Sad...


What's even worse is that I know the next line:

Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great... if you could use a nice, heavy paperweight.


It'll be interesting to see if this really can be priced to compete with the 4870X2. The GPUs are larger and more expensive to produce, there are two separate PCBs and a very non-typical cooling solution.

And worse yet is all these great 3d gaming cards available and all we get nowadays is console ports.

I'd love to see a new AAA pc title made just to take advantage of todays pc hardware.

But sadly, the secret is out.

Games Dont sell 3D cards, highest benchmarks do.

Now THATS sad. (and true unfortunately )

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You say you've had your desktop for over a week? Throw that junk away man it's an antique!

Sad...


What's even worse is that I know the next line:

Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great... if you could use a nice, heavy paperweight.


It'll be interesting to see if this really can be priced to compete with the 4870X2. The GPUs are larger and more expensive to produce, there are two separate PCBs and a very non-typical cooling solution.

We need to see how it performs first to dictate if it needs to be priced to compete with the X2.
If it's slower, it should be priced less. If it performs on par, they should be similarly priced, and if it performs higher, it should be priced higher. This is what the market dictates.

As it is right now, a 65nm GTX260 216 goes for about 220 to 250 dollars. That is with 896MB mem on a 448bit bus and the PCB to go with it. Two of them together would cost a consumer 440 to 500 depending on the model you get. And not getting into highly o/c'd more expensive models.

If the above specs are accurate, and Nvidia can offer 2 GTX260 216's for about 440 to 500 dollars based on 65nm, I don't see them having too much trouble being competitively priced with two 55nm GT200's with all other variables the same (bit width and memory).

 

[AmdInside]

A side question but does anyone know of a graphics card with Displayport that can pass audio as well as video through the displayport to the monitor?

 

[Bman123]

The 295 is gonna be a joke.Sure it is a beast,it will take so much juice to power the thing.
Second it will be like the 9800gx2 and get hot.

Oh well I am not a fan of sandwich cards thats all

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: Bman123
The 295 is gonna be a joke.Sure it is a beast,it will take so much juice to power the thing.
Second it will be like the 9800gx2 and get hot.

Oh well I am not a fan of sandwich cards thats all

Wow, that's harsh criticism for a card that's not been released. If it takes less "juice" to run it than X2, if it runs cooler than GX2, and if it turns out not to be a joke, please post again to let us know that your judgement was hasty...

 

[cmdrdredd]

I have not been a big fan of x2 cards. I considered a 4870x2 but I searched various forums and found many complaints about them. Everything from games not scaling to only one half of the card works in the driver. It turned me off to say the least.

 

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I have not been a big fan of x2 cards. I considered a 4870x2 but I searched various forums and found many complaints about them. Everything from games not scaling to only one half of the card works in the driver. It turned me off to say the least.

4870x2 is a good card. Properly tuned, they run about 20 degrees cooler than out of the box. Plenty of memory, damn good card in my opinion..

 

[Zenoth]

I'm currently saving for the GTX 285, I often read some bad observations with the current GTX 280 regarding overheating on its default cooling solution, so the 55nm revision should make it consume less power and have much lesser chances of overheating, even with a higher clock frequency, at least I do hope so. I was about to buy a GTX 280 in fact only two weeks ago but then I backed up on it and thought "I know a refresh of it is coming soon, let's just be a little more patient".

The GTX 295 will obviously be a beast, good for those gaming on giant sized monitors with crazy high resolutions, image the GTX 295 on SLi or Tri-SLi, we know we'll see benchmarks of that soon after its release from some over-clocking groups, that's for sure, and it'll be good for the show. I still can hardly wait for my GTX 285, but I do wonder how more costly it will be compared to the current one, maybe an extra fifty bucks or so?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
I have not been a big fan of x2 cards. I considered a 4870x2 but I searched various forums and found many complaints about them. Everything from games not scaling to only one half of the card works in the driver. It turned me off to say the least.

4870x2 is a good card. Properly tuned, they run about 20 degrees cooler than out of the box. Plenty of memory, damn good card in my opinion..

You shouldn't have to properly tune anything. I know you mean the fan and ya I know ATI went for quiet. I had a 4870 in this system for a while and I enjoyed it until I decided I wanted more power for a 24" monitor. I just decided that 2GB of memory didn't mean anything at 1920x1200, scaling issues in some games was a problem, some reports of crossfire being turned off with no way to turn it on was also a concern for me.

I would have liked to go with one to get a bit more performance out of games that scale well, but I was too afraid of the dual GPU issues that often crop up to spend the extra cash. Know what I mean?

 

[roid450]

Originally posted by: clandren
can it play doom?

I remember the days when you needed a 7950 ultra to barely even get playable FPS on all maxed out :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: roid450

Originally posted by: clandren
can it play doom?

I remember the days when you needed a 7950 ultra to barely even get playable FPS on all maxed out :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Doom 2? lol

I remember, once upon a time, where in Quake 3 people tweaked out the cfg file to get 100+ fps so that they could hit shots with the railgun better and just about eliminate walls so you could almost see around the corner. The game looked like garbage but people needed high fps to be competitive. Playing in 16bit color, bilinear texture filtering, details all the way down, 3d objects off, forcing every player model to be the same one to save memory. I don't miss those days.