gtx465 reviews are up

[Lonyo]

It is what it is. Seems like according to Anandtech it fits right in with the pricing of the card vs the 5850. It is a % less in price for a corresponding reduction in performance.

I am surprised with less cores, ROPs, and memory it still pulls in near what the 470 does from a power perspective.

I think the GF104 will be their best attempt at the sub 250 realm. And these new drivers make the 470 and 480 look better from a price\performance perspective than the launch drivers.

Well, S|A commented that apparently NV aren't announcing anything at Computex, which begs the question of where the GF104 is exactly. If it's due in 1 or 2 months you might expect them to start showing it off to try and persuade people not to buy ATI in that price segment, especially when you consider that at the $250 mark they don't have much to offer.
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/05/31/nvidia-announces-nothing-computex/

 

[RussianSensation]

Well it does well when compared to a 4890.No wonder nvidia pulled the gtx 275 when they did.

...And it should be faster than the 4890. It's $279, compared to $180 that 4890 cost 12 months ago. What did you expect?

Compared to the 5850, 465 is slower, hotter, louder, consumes more power and costs only $10 less:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-330-_-Product

Not to mention the overclocking headroom that 5850 has.

5830 is also lackluster even at $200 (with $20 rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-878-_-Product) but at least it's $80 cheaper. The GTX465 is even more disappointing than the 5830.

Also, NV discontinuing the GTX275 was actually not a good strategy. They ended up having no parts to compete with ATI for 7+ months. GTX275 is still a very good performing part even today. If it sold at $200, it would have been a very good alternative to the $300 5850s and $150 5770s all these months.

 

[dug777]

It is what it is. Seems like according to Anandtech it fits right in with the pricing of the card vs the 5850. It is a % less in price for a corresponding reduction in performance.

I am surprised with less cores, ROPs, and memory it still pulls in near what the 470 does from a power perspective.

I think the GF104 will be their best attempt at the sub 250 realm. And these new drivers make the 470 and 480 look better from a price\performance perspective than the launch drivers.

I am not sure how you read the anandtech conclusion, but they explicitly state that:

All told they come very close to this at 1920 and 1680, coming within 89% and 93% of a Radeon HD 5850 respectively...

'All told they come very close' doesn't quite equate to your statement that AT states that it's a corresponding reduction in performance for price. A subtle difference, but an important difference no less, if you want to quote an authority to back up an argument.

I don't think that anyone should be remotely surprised that it draws what it does vis a vis the 470, if it's a binned Fermi core, just like the 5830 (which is a binned Cypress core), it was binned because it can't make the grade, and requires more voltage to even achieve these gimped speeds...

I suppose it's up to the individual if a hotter, noisier, more power hungry card than the GTX 470 is worth what is apparently less than $20 these days compared to a 5850 on that equal or less than performance/price comparator, and I guess that's where the value you place on nvidia specific features come into play. Not for me to say that those things should or shouldn't matter to an individual, but it does seem like it's a bit of a turd at the current price in pretty much every other regard, to put it crassly.

I am also interested to see how it stands up outside the 'nvidia sanctioned' games and settings regime, it would be less than amusing to a potential buyer who plays outside those apparently pretty narrow confines (BFG's recent comments on here being the basis for that comment) if it was epic fail in that regard.

 

[v8envy]

Newer NV hardware performing worse than ATI outside of the "sanctioned" and optimized for games is a big problem for some. Historically NV has had the brute force approach to hardware, with relatively simple and bulletproof drivers. That's why ATI hardware got faster over time, performing very well relative to the original competition after becoming obsolete.

However, brute force is exactly what I need to game under Linux. NV emulating ATI in having more exotic, harder to tune hardware which relies on game specific driver optimizations is an unfortunate serving of fail for me.

Ah well, the joys of being 1%. Recent reports of ATI drivers show tremendous improvement on the Linux front. At this point the consensus is that ATI is only 2-3 years behind NV (after starting about a decade behind) and many common desktop usage scenarios are now problem free. Seeing as I'm a moron and don't learn my lessons I may have to give ATI another shot.

 

[MrK6]

The GTX465 is a bigger disappointment than the 5830, although I don't think anyone expected otherwise. I think GF104, if it's released in the proper time frame, could help NVIDIA in the mid-range market. Either way, I'm holding out to see what the 6000 series is like.

 

[happy medium]

The GTX465 is a bigger disappointment than the 5830, although I don't think anyone expected otherwise. I think GF104, if it's released in the proper time frame, could help NVIDIA in the mid-range market. Either way, I'm holding out to see what the 6000 series is like.

I must disagree. The 5830 was the worst card released so far. At $260 it gave a 10% performance boost over a $150 5770.

The gtx 465 loses to the 5850 by 9/15% but is prices 9% cheaper and comes with Just Cause 2. Thats not that bad at all compared to a 5830.

 

[tincart]

I must disagree. The 5830 was the worst card released so far. At $260 it gave a 10% performance boost over a $150 5770.

The gtx 465 loses to the 5850 by 9/15% but is prices 9% cheaper and comes with Just Cause 2. Thats not that bad at all compared to a 5830.

We already knew your opinion before you posted it.

 

[MrK6]

We already knew your opinion before you posted it.

lol :awe:

With the 5830 being available now for $200 and less, it's a decent option. Truth be told, the card should be $175 in my book, as I'm not particularly happy about the power usage. However, compared to the GTX 465, it ends up looking like a deal (didn't see that one coming). All in all, people looking in $150-200 segment are still getting screwed, especially considering the options available last year around this time (4870 1GB, 4890, GTX 260 216, GTX 275).

 

[HurleyBird]

I must disagree. The 5830 was the worst card released so far. At $260 it gave a 10% performance boost over a $150 5770.

The gtx 465 loses to the 5850 by 9/15% but is prices 9% cheaper and comes with Just Cause 2. Thats not that bad at all compared to a 5830.

Completely agree, for once. The 465 launch is disapointing, but not nearly as bad as 5830's.

 

[tweakboy]

Oh gosh not another budget card ?

Where are you dual GPU nVidia,, are you alive ?

 

[tincart]

Completely agree. The 465 launch is disapointing, but not nearly as bad as 5830's.

Comparing "launch" to "launch" I would agree that the 5830 didn't stand up as well as the 465 does. My question to you is this: What does this mean and why do you care?

If you are looking at buying a video card NOW, do you care about the status of that card at launch or do you care about the status of the card now, when you are intending on buying it. If you say anything other than "now," I'll know you're simply interested in rhetoric and not trying to make a valid point.

Of course the important matter is the comparison of the products now. Comparison of "level of disappointment at launch" or whatever we want to call it, is interesting only in the context of semi-angsty tech forum posts.

So let's look at them now. Techpowerup gives an overall performance % for the 5830 at 89% of the 465 for all resolutions tested. If we take the going price of a 5830 now (the cheapest I can find is going for 220$ so if someone can point me to the 200$ price points, I would appreciate it) this means that the 5830 gives you 89% of the performance of a 465 for 79% of the price. That seems pretty damn good to me.

The value proposition for 5830 vs. 5850 doesn't shake out quite so well. You get around 35% more performance from a 5850 for around 25% more $$$ (numbers also taken from TPU) but that comparison makes a little less sense. The 5830 and the 465 are in the same performance class, the 465 and the 5850 are not (as I judge from an aggregate of about 20 reviews I have read).

In short: Comparison of "launch" to "launch" is silly and bordering on meaningless.

That said, I don't think the 5830 is a great card either. Current prices are marginally acceptable but the main problem is exactly what w1zzard pointed out: The 5830 doesn't have a "sweet spot." It is overpowered at 1680 x 1050 and not quite powerful enough at 1920 x 1200.

 

[Genx87]

We already knew your opinion before you posted it.

Same can be said of Mrk6.

 

[toyota]

who would really want to buy this card though? someone would have to be coming from a pretty slow card for this to be an worthwhile upgrade. then that person is going to add lots of power consumption, heat and noise just for a reasonable jump in performance. why put up with all the negative characteristics of very high end card while getting relatively mediocre performance? you could buy a 5850 and get better performance with none of the drawbacks for about 10 bucks more.

 

[Genx87]

who would really want to buy this card though? someone would have to be coming from a pretty slow card for this to be an worthwhile upgrade. then that person is going to add lots of power consumption, heat and noise just for a reasonable jump in performance. why put up with all the negative characteristics of very high end card while getting relatively mediocre performance? you could buy a 5850 and get better performance with none of the drawbacks for about 10 bucks more.

If the card drops to sub 250 which I suspect it will pretty quickly. There are some people out there who might have older series cards who value PhysX or Cuda and will pay that kind of money to get into DX11. If this card was at 249 I think it would be a pretty desireable card. I think the market will speak quickly and it will be that much within a month.

 

[v8envy]

Why are we even considering the 5830? The delta in performance between a 5770 and 465 is about the same as the delta between the 465 and the 5850. Ignore the 5830 like we have been until now, don't even bring it up.

With that view we have a card roughly midway between the 5770 and 5850. Is it a good value for $10 less than the 5850 or $120 more than the 5770? My answer is "oh HELL no!" Doubly so considering how well the 5770 and 5850 overclock.

Yes, the 5830 is a big old log ATI dropped in the bowl. But if you ignore its existence you can see the 465 is an even bigger turd at the current prices.

This is a card purely for the faithful. I hope they buy lots of them so that we may see better choices in the future.

 

[SlowSpyder]

If the card drops to sub 250 which I suspect it will pretty quickly. There are some people out there who might have older series cards who value PhysX or Cuda and will pay that kind of money to get into DX11. If this card was at 249 I think it would be a pretty desireable card. I think the market will speak quickly and it will be that much within a month.

Yea, I wouldn't be suprised if the 465's drop fast. The 5870 and 5850 have held their prices, even gone up since their launch. The 5830 however is as low as $210AR on Newegg. I see the 465 dropping like the 5830 had too.

 

[toyota]

Yea, I wouldn't be suprised if the 465's drop fast. The 5870 and 5850 have held their prices, even gone up since their launch. The 5830 however is as low as $210AR on Newegg. I see the 465 dropping like the 5830 had too.

I think they put Just Cause 2 with the card because it was already going to be a pretty hard sell. I give it about 2 weeks and we will see the rebates or price drop kick in.

 

[v8envy]

If the card drops to sub 250 which I suspect it will pretty quickly. There are some people out there who might have older series cards who value PhysX or Cuda and will pay that kind of money to get into DX11. If this card was at 249 I think it would be a pretty desireable card. I think the market will speak quickly and it will be that much within a month.

Considering how badly even the high end of the current generation does on existing DX11 titles do you really think DX11 is a feature worth $270 on its own? In other words, if you had a 275 or 285, would you spend $270 to "upgrade" to a 465? (or even 470)

DX11 matters for high end cards. For cards in the 5770 and 465 performance level or below it's irrelevant.

 

[happy medium]

The 5830 at $199 is not to bad,but at the 260$ launch just like the gtx 465's 280$ launch is pethedic.

I agree with most of you guys

 

[tincart]

Same can be said of Mrk6.

Horses for courses.

 

[Genx87]

Considering how badly even the high end of the current generation does on existing DX11 titles do you really think DX11 is a feature worth $270 on its own? In other words, if you had a 275 or 285, would you spend $270 to "upgrade" to a 465? (or even 470)

DX11 matters for high end cards. For cards in the 5770 and 465 performance level or below it's irrelevant.

There is more than a 260-285 in older series of cards. The 465 would provide a nice boost in performance for those users. At 249 I think that would be worth it.

 

[toyota]

There is more than a 260-285 in older series of cards. The 465 would provide a nice boost in performance for those users. At 249 I think that would be worth it.

but that goes back to my previous point. is someone with say an 8800gt willing to more than double their power usage and put up with all that noise in heat just to get a decent boost and pick up DX11 support? I just dont think there is much of a market for this card because it has all the negatives off an ultra high end card but delivers mid range performance.

 

[v8envy]

but that goes back to my previous point. is someone with say an 8800gt willing to more than double their power usage and put up with all that noise in heat just to get a decent boost and pick up DX11 support? I just dont think there is much of a market for this card because it has all the negatives off an ultra high end card but delivers mid range performance.

That's exactly it. You need high end cooling and power to run this midrange video solution. Someone still clinging to a G92 card is unlikely to have the rest of the system capable of handling a GTX480 (which this card is, from a power use, exhausted heat and noise perspective).

Nor would a low end video card user be in the market for a $280 midrange video card.

As I said, a card purely for the faithful. May they buy lots and lots.

 

[happy medium]

With modern games a gtx 285 will = 2 8800gt's but the 8800gt's use more power then the gtx 285. I would think 2 8800gt's use as much power as a gtx 470 if not more.

 

[HurleyBird]

Comparing "launch" to "launch" I would agree that the 5830 didn't stand up as well as the 465 does. My question to you is this: What does this mean and why do you care?

I don't care since I was smart and bought a 5870 at launch

That being said, launch vs. launch is a perfectly resonable as first impressions tend to last long, and its a way to compare both products in an unbiased fashion. Besides that, there's a very reasonable chance that in a months time pricing for GTX 465 will look different and the product will be better positioned.

Right now, I think the most distressing thing about GTX 465 isn't the pricing, which will hopefully go down, but that fact that reviewers are getting radically different power/noise/heat values for review sampes, hinting that there is some hardcore voltage binning going on and a number of turds cards are in the market (such as the one Anad tested that had higher consumption than GTX 470 and was as loud as a GTX 295!)