Guildwars 2 Beta Thread

[maniacalpha1-1]

How is GW2 from a...well, look at it this way: Most first person shooter games(like BF3) allow you to very quickly unlock or buy the most powerful weapons. Relatively speaking there's therefore very little prestige involved for getting high level weapons. On the opposite end of the spectrum, an MMORPG with a long leveling time, that requires a lot of time camping or raiding to get the best gear and weapons, there's a certain level of prestige to being max level and raid-geared. And perhaps even among raid geared you can do even better by camping the gear that will give you specific stat bonuses. And when you are doing stuff with pickup groups, helping out weaker groups etc you really stand out.

How is GW2 on that front? Is it closer to where obtaining the best gear and a supercharged character is only a matter of short time, or there's going to be real prestige to being a very powerful character?

And if it's going to be closer to a shooter in terms of getting the good stuff fast, are there any MMORPG's that have come out post SW TOR(since I have played TOR) which are really good(well, I consider it good, you may not) on this front?

 

[diesbudt]

How is GW2 from a...well, look at it this way: Most first person shooter games(like BF3) allow you to very quickly unlock or buy the most powerful weapons. Relatively speaking there's therefore very little prestige involved for getting high level weapons. On the opposite end of the spectrum, an MMORPG with a long leveling time, that requires a lot of time camping or raiding to get the best gear and weapons, there's a certain level of prestige to being max level and raid-geared. And perhaps even among raid geared you can do even better by camping the gear that will give you specific stat bonuses. And when you are doing stuff with pickup groups, helping out weaker groups etc you really stand out.

How is GW2 on that front? Is it closer to where obtaining the best gear and a supercharged character is only a matter of short time, or there's going to be real prestige to being a very powerful character?

And if it's going to be closer to a shooter in terms of getting the good stuff fast, are there any MMORPG's that have come out post SW TOR(since I have played TOR) which are really good(well, I consider it good, you may not) on this front?

From the sounds of it, it follows closer to the original Guild Wars model, in that at max level all gear will basically have the same amount of stats, just different set-ups (X/Y Y/Z X/Z). End gear is all about looks, not the stats that come on it. As in GW1 the pvp was basically who could create the better skill set-up or combo with a group, as stats was not an issue.

The main "farming" thing in GW2, will be getting all the abilities and elite skills unlocked which you can switch in and out on your bar before battle, but not during.

Also no huge raid groups, all endgame instances (that are suppossedly really hard) are for 5 people. 5 Organized people are needed to beat them, and with no holy trinity, each player has to understand sometimes they will need to help heal here and there.

And your opinion ToR was good. My opinion, it blew. Level 37 and I was bored. So better in my opinion? Rift, Guild wars 1, WoW, Asheron's Call, Everquest, DnD online, LoTRO. But you asked for Post ToR. I don't think there has been any other MMOs really made since ToR came out. Since that was less than a year ago.

 

[zinfamous]

How is GW2 from a...well, look at it this way: Most first person shooter games(like BF3) allow you to very quickly unlock or buy the most powerful weapons. Relatively speaking there's therefore very little prestige involved for getting high level weapons. On the opposite end of the spectrum, an MMORPG with a long leveling time, that requires a lot of time camping or raiding to get the best gear and weapons, there's a certain level of prestige to being max level and raid-geared. And perhaps even among raid geared you can do even better by camping the gear that will give you specific stat bonuses. And when you are doing stuff with pickup groups, helping out weaker groups etc you really stand out.

How is GW2 on that front? Is it closer to where obtaining the best gear and a supercharged character is only a matter of short time, or there's going to be real prestige to being a very powerful character?

And if it's going to be closer to a shooter in terms of getting the good stuff fast, are there any MMORPG's that have come out post SW TOR(since I have played TOR) which are really good(well, I consider it good, you may not) on this front?

GW2 is not gear-dependant. There are instanced dungeons, that actually begin at the mid levels. But gera does not determine your worth as in other MMOs. It's about individual skill.

Like GW1, you will need to be at or near max level for top tier gear, but it is easily available to everyone. End game does not consist of grinding for gear that allows you to continue grinding the same handful of dungeons over and over.

But you can't pay to unlock anything, either.

If you want PvP--you can jump into the PvP zone and get insta-leveled to Max. You get rudimentary max level gear, and all the skill and trait points that you need. What is nice about this, is you get to fully test out each class rather quickly.

 

[diesbudt]

GW2 is not gear-dependant. There are instanced dungeons, that actually begin at the mid levels. But gera does not determine your worth as in other MMOs. It's about individual skill.

Like GW1, you will need to be at or near max level for top tier gear, but it is easily available to everyone. End game does not consist of grinding for gear that allows you to continue grinding the same handful of dungeons over and over.

But you can't pay to unlock anything, either.

If you want PvP--you can jump into the PvP zone and get insta-leveled to Max. You get rudimentary max level gear, and all the skill and trait points that you need. What is nice about this, is you get to fully test out each class rather quickly.

And because of all the weapon skill changes and skill choices for the other 5 spots, its not gonna be as clear cut as it is in other MMOs now where you go online, read X build works. And Just use it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

How is GW2 from a...well, look at it this way: Most first person shooter games(like BF3) allow you to very quickly unlock or buy the most powerful weapons. Relatively speaking there's therefore very little prestige involved for getting high level weapons. On the opposite end of the spectrum, an MMORPG with a long leveling time, that requires a lot of time camping or raiding to get the best gear and weapons, there's a certain level of prestige to being max level and raid-geared. And perhaps even among raid geared you can do even better by camping the gear that will give you specific stat bonuses. And when you are doing stuff with pickup groups, helping out weaker groups etc you really stand out.

How is GW2 on that front? Is it closer to where obtaining the best gear and a supercharged character is only a matter of short time, or there's going to be real prestige to being a very powerful character?

And if it's going to be closer to a shooter in terms of getting the good stuff fast, are there any MMORPG's that have come out post SW TOR(since I have played TOR) which are really good(well, I consider it good, you may not) on this front?

Prestige items are cosmetic only.

For structured PvP you unlock the most powerful equipment from the get go - you will gain points to unlock different looking armor.

PvE you have to level to 80 and acquire exotic armor - legendary and exotic weapons are same power. Getting exotic gear won't be as hard as in other games if you are a good player. Getting the most fancy looking exotic and legendary weapons will require a massive time investment.

GW2 doesn't have raids.

GW2 make you level appropriate for the content - you are more powerful, but not god like, you can die. On the other hand you get XP and gear appropriate for your real level, so it isn't a waste of time.

As a level 22 going to a level 11 area, my level was reduced to level 12. I could destroy regular mobs and veteran mobs without much problem (better equipment, traits and more skill options), but a champion mob would still kill me in 3 hits, while a real level 11 would die in 2 hits.

Likewise in a level 23-24 area, I was killing white mobs with few problems, by the trios. A level 17 of the same class was being rolled really quick, so he had to be very careful and only hit once they were distracted by me and break off whenever they started to tag him.

Part of the power of a GW2 character will always be tied to the player skill, more than in most MMORPGs (dodging/blocking is manual, hitting is semi-manual), a bit less than in most FPS.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I just hope when I choose a server, it won't be like WoW where I chose one that had low pop

Fat chance.

With the overflow system in place, they will pack servers knowing that they can always kick people into overflow.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

And your opinion ToR was good. My opinion, it blew. Level 37 and I was bored. So better in my opinion? Rift, Guild wars 1, WoW, Asheron's Call, Everquest, DnD online, LoTRO. But you asked for Post ToR. I don't think there has been any other MMOs really made since ToR came out. Since that was less than a year ago.

Ohhhh hell I made a major mistake there if I implied TOR was good, sorry(it's a good single player game with some nice looking zones and voice, but it's not a good MMO). I was going to say what is a good game for this in the last 6 months but to avoid the possibility of TOR being mentioned, I just changed it to post-TOR which covered the same thing. I am embarrassed to have mistakenly suggested TOR was a good MMO, sorry! I am definitely a fanatic for EQ1's style. Though that's in the past for me along with all those other games.

GW2 is not gear-dependant. There are instanced dungeons, that actually begin at the mid levels. But gera does not determine your worth as in other MMOs. It's about individual skill.

Like GW1, you will need to be at or near max level for top tier gear, but it is easily available to everyone. End game does not consist of grinding for gear that allows you to continue grinding the same handful of dungeons over and over.

But you can't pay to unlock anything, either.

If you want PvP--you can jump into the PvP zone and get insta-leveled to Max. You get rudimentary max level gear, and all the skill and trait points that you need. What is nice about this, is you get to fully test out each class rather quickly.

In many ways, and especially now that I know what you're telling me, I feel like GW2 is almost like an RPG Planetside2(I say this because of the PvP focus on territory control). And I AM interested in GW2, or would be, except that for that kind of PvP I'm already waiting for Planetside 2.

Now, thus far, everything I've said about the gear dependence has actually been about PvE. When it comes to PvP, I don't mind if there are arenas to duel, and stuff like that, or even warfronts, but I like in-world PvP. Now, I think it's wrong to allow level 50 to gank level 6, so I prefer a 4-5 level spread(like Rallos of EQ1), but sterilizing the PvP to consensual duels and warfronts and refusing to even offer world-pvp-enabled optional PvP servers, I hate that of recent games. If you have no world PvP servers, then there are no bad guys, no good guys, no one caught in the middle. And I'm not saying that from a role playing standpoint but from a quite literal standpoint. Someone has to kill the PKers!

 

[GaiaHunter]

Now, thus far, everything I've said has been about PvE. When it comes to PvP, I don't mind if there are arenas to duel, and stuff like that, or even warfronts, but I like in-world PvP. Now, I think it's wrong to allow level 50 to gank level 6, so I prefer a 4-5 level spread(like Rallos of EQ1), but sterilizing the PvP to consensual duels and warfronts and refusing to even offer world-pvp-enabled optional PvP servers, I hate that of recent games. If you have no world PvP servers, then there are no bad guys, no good guys, no one caught in the middle. And I'm not saying that from a role playing standpoint but from a quite literal standpoint. Someone has to kill the PKers!

WvW is a massive continent, with a mixed PvE elements mixed in, like neutral mobs, hostile creatures, resource nodes, jumping puzzles, skill challenges, you gain xp, coins, loot, guild will claim claim castles and towers,etc.

You will see loads of PvErs going there.

It is massive so there will be ganks and it is easy to caught someone by surprise.

Just everyone knows that they are in a warzone and everyone will be boosted to level 80, so no 1 shots.

 

[Chiropteran]

Just everyone knows that they are in a warzone and everyone will be boosted to level 80, so no 1 shots.

Sounded great until I read this part. Lame.

 

[Ashenor]

Sounded great until I read this part. Lame.

Well skills you and unlock and other stuff still comes into play.

No clue what i want to play yet messed around a bit last night during stress test. On the fence between Rogue, Ranger, Necro and Elem.

I am just wondering how much of the store cash bought items will come into play. If i have to buy the one key type everytime i get a chest to unlock and so on.

I don't mind investing some money into other stuff but don't want to spend 20 bucks a week to compete.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Sounded great until I read this part. Lame.

Because you want level 80s to gank levels 6+? Or because people can simply stay out of the warzone?

I'd prefer that there be optional PvP enabled servers in which the entire server is an open battleground; but only within a 5 level range. 80 ganking 6 isn't right.

That does not mean I would not want there to be instanced warfronts where everyone is equalized, but when you're out of the warfront and you have voluntarily chosen a PvP server, you're still in danger.

Note: I'm not saying Guild Wars 2 should do this because they've obviously chosen a different path for which adding PvP wouldn't be that simple. But most games of the general style of Everquest, WoW, TOR, etc, this is exactly what they need.

 

[Chiropteran]

Because you want level 80s to gank levels 6+? Or because people can simply stay out of the warzone?

Basically because it negates a huge incentive to level up. Getting ganked at level 20 in red ridge on world of warcraft might have sucked, but it sure did make me want to level up to 60 to have a fighting chance. If you can enter the warzone at level 2 and have most of the power of a max level character it removes (or at least reduces) that incentive.

Also removes some fun dynamics. In shadowbane you'd level out in a pvp enabled area with friends, but you would have a high level guildy scout watch out for enemies, or have some stealthed characters nearby to protect in case of a gank attempt. PvP only in designated areas where everyone is max level and no leveling needs to occur is too artificial and clean for me.

 

[diesbudt]

Basically because it negates a huge incentive to level up. Getting ganked at level 20 in red ridge on world of warcraft might have sucked, but it sure did make me want to level up to 60 to have a fighting chance. If you can enter the warzone at level 2 and have most of the power of a max level character it removes (or at least reduces) that incentive.

Also removes some fun dynamics. In shadowbane you'd level out in a pvp enabled area with friends, but you would have a high level guildy scout watch out for enemies, or have some stealthed characters nearby to protect in case of a gank attempt. PvP only in designated areas where everyone is max level and no leveling needs to occur is too artificial and clean for me.

However unlike warcraft and TOR and so on, there isn't 2 separate factions. Just 1 faction, so there isn't X vs Y. Servers are pitted against each other in this manner. And you have to enter a separate instance for different server players to pvp against each other.

Plus this game is all about scaling (just like GW1 you can have a max level to pvp with w/o ever seeing pve, however you would have to spend a lot of time doing pvp to unlock the same skills you can unlock playign PvE) so it makes the game take more into account spell setup and skill, not level and stats.

 

[thujone]

if you go into wvwvw at level 2... you're not going to be able to do much because you're only going to have the 5 skills that are tied to your weapon to use. actually you probably wouldn't have all of those unlocked by level 2 yet. and those skills would just be for the starter weapon they gave you.


the boost to 80 for eternal battlegrounds just makes it so EVERYONE can pvp before max level without them having to implement separate battlegrounds for specific lvl ranges like in wow. so there's still incentive to level to get skills and gear.

also... the pvp is a lot like RvR in DAOC. and it's wonderful.

 

[Chiropteran]

It sounds like you will never be able to gank someone who is off trying to level fighting mobs. You will never be able to fight a larger group who is attempting some world boss. You won't ever experience the sheer terror of having your lowbie group slaughtered by a high level ganker, and the satisfaction of finally killing him after a friend shows up.

 

[diesbudt]

It sounds like you will never be able to gank someone who is off trying to level fighting mobs. You will never be able to fight a larger group who is attempting some world boss. You won't ever experience the sheer terror of having your lowbie group slaughtered by a high level ganker, and the satisfaction of finally killing him after a friend shows up.

Correct, but when you do gank, you are ganking someone who may have a chance to fight back and is in an area he knows ganking/pvp will happen.

I love on all the MMOS I play when people gank their defense is "Well I want him to fight back, this is too easy. Call in his max level friends or get on his main."

It is the same as in wow as the lv19 'twink' gameplay. They say they just want a fun hard challenge at their level, but that is a lie.

They get upset if this is taken away from a more straight-fair fight. They QQ about it.

(Not saying you do)

But ganking will still exist just not ganking to be a dick, some of the better stuff that happens is on that wvwvw island, and is requried to do as a server to keep all the benefits it gets (Extra xp, crafting success, gold, etc)

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Attacking people who are fighting mobs is absolutely fine, you have to be prepared.

However, while I have only played one game that allowed a high level to attack low levels(Star Wars TOR), to me it seems that the only reason that didn't break the game is because people simply didn't put any time into farming lower levels. And a level 80 attacking level 10s can generally kill tons of level 10s, so unless your friend is close to the level of the killer(and you're unlikely to have higher level friends unless you already have a higher level character and you're playing an alt), you're SOL. And in the early months of an MMO, some people just advance faster. No limit on attacking levels just doesn't work, really.

But you know what? I'd rather have that situation than have no world pvp at all. When it comes down to it, too much PvP is better than none.

 

[thujone]

It sounds like you will never be able to gank someone who is off trying to level fighting mobs. You will never be able to fight a larger group who is attempting some world boss. You won't ever experience the sheer terror of having your lowbie group slaughtered by a high level ganker, and the satisfaction of finally killing him after a friend shows up.

you do know there's no perma stealth in this game right?

 

[SS Trooper]

you do know there's no perma stealth in this game right?

I just started to get into stealthers in my last attempts at MMO's. Thats too bad.

Would someone mind posting a dumb downed description of each of the classes and how they are different from another class? I have limited access to stuff from work.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GaiaHunter]

First main difference is armor classes.

Soldiers - heavy armor - Warrior and Guardian.

The Warrior is a more offensive based character and has more health. It has access to an incredible amount of weapons Longbow (2hands), Rifle(2h), Greatsword(2h), Hammer 2h). Than he can use on both main and off hand Sword, Mace and Axe (for example Axe/Axe, Mace/Axe, etc). As off hands only they can use the Warhorn and the Shield. Underwater they have the spear and the harpoon gun.

The rest of its skills include banners, shouts, physical skills like kick and stomp and stances.

Their special class mechanic is a burst skill that deals more damage the more adrenaline you have (3 levels, build up by taking and dealing damage).

The Guardian is lower health but it has higher toughness. He doesn't have access to has many weapons as the warrior but he has access to magic. He can use the Hammer, Greatsword, Staff (2h), Sword and Mace (main hand only), Sceptre (main hand ranged magic weapon) , Focus (magic off hand), Torch (off hand) and Shield. Underwater Trident (magical) and Spear.

The guardian involves boosting and defending allies in a party wide style, but can deal quite a bunch of damage more sustained than bursty.

Its unique class mechanic consists of 3 virtues that give passive bonus like block attacks, add burning every few attacks or health regen, that can be sacrificed (meaning no passive for a while) to give all allies the same bonus.

 

[SS Trooper]

Thanks!

 

[GaiaHunter]

Adventurers - medium armor professions - ranger, thief and engineer.

The Ranger includes the typical nature affinity dude, with spirits, traps and pets. But opposed to be bow only, rangers can play a bit more like Aragorn.

Weapons include Longbow, Shortbow, Greatsword, Sword (main hand only), Axe (main and off hand), Dagger (off hand), Torch and Warhorn. Underwater harpoon gun and spear

He can have 4 pets (2 land pets, 2 aquatic pets) , but only one out at a time. Notice some are amphibious and can take any slot.

An hilarious skill is the warhorn skill that calls a flock of birds on your target.

The Engineer is one of the two class without weapon swap. He has a limited weapon selection, only using rifle, pistol/shield and pistol/pistol. Underwater harpoon gun.

He uses mechanical devices like turrets, mines, rocket boots and other gadgets. Additionally he uses potions and elixirs. He can also equip kits, like flame-thrower, elixir gun, grenade kits, etc, that replace the first five skills.

Additionally the engineer has a tool belt that gives a skill (4 total, 1 for each utility and for healing skill) depending on the utility skills equipped - for example grenade kit allows him to throw a few grenades, flame thrower allows him to make a few bullets cause the target to burn, he can detonate his turrets, etc.

So crazy scientist with skills like glue shot, net shot, make himself tiny, etc.

 

[Chiropteran]

I define gank as any fight in which the defender has no chance to win- at best he may escape. Stealth doesn't fit into it.

 

[GaiaHunter]

The thief is the squishier of the 3 adventurers.

He has access to a shortbow, Sword (main hand only), Pistol and Dagger (both main hand and off hand). Underwater he has access to both harpoon gun and spear.

The Thief has 2 class mechanics - first a skill that will teleport you to your target and make him steal something from him (feathers, gunk, whatever). This item will give you a skill (dependant on item stolen) that you can use once and generally causes some buff or debuff (feathers blind).

Secondarily the skills have no cooldown - they use an initiative system. The #1 skill gives initiative and the others consume it.

Also when dual wielding, the #3 skill depends on both weapons (opposed to just main hand weapon) - for example the dagger/pistol #3 skill is different from the dagger/dagger skill.

Stealth skills, some traps, poisons, loads of skills that allow you to teleport between points (called shadow step in the game) generally multiple times (A to B to A to B, etc). Loads of disabling conditions.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Scholar professions - light armor casters - Necromancer, Mesmer and Elementalist.

Elemantalist - the other profession that doesn't have weapon swap, the elemantalist is a mage that focus on elemental magic (fire, water, earth and air) - the ele can't swap weapons but can swap the attunement (get some effect when swap) during combat, so he has access to 20 weapon skills. Eles can use Staff, Sceptre, Dagger (main and off hand), Focus. Underwater trident.

Fire is loads of AoE damage and burning, Air is about debuffing enemies and buffing allies and CC with knocks and push backs, Water has some regen, heals and lots of enemy slows, Earth is about AoE but less damage and more defense/debuffing than fire.

Additionally elementalist can summon elemental weapons for themselves and for allies (lightning hammers, earth shields, fire swords, icy bows). They also can summon elemental minions and using some arcane magic (blinks, and boosting their own spells).