[H] gunning for NV again.

[UlricT]

guys... it looks like those screens are only PS2.0

from Nvidia interview

Yeah, the images that you've seen from Far Cry, the current path, those are actually Shader Model 2.0, and anything that runs Shader Model 2.0 should be able to produce those images.

 

[Acanthus]

You have to have DX9.0c beta installed in order to use PS/VS 3.0

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Dean
Don't knock H for clearing up some fud that was passed around the internet(including here) from Nvidia PR. PS3.0 and sm3.0 is a step up from 2.0, but its a baby step and not a leap by any means. Do not knock a site for spreading TRUTH!

Nvidia should have more people like Tony Tamasi spreading proper PR. That interview at TR was the first one from Nvidia in a long time that did not have my head shaking in disgust. He gave real answers to direct questions on what Nvidia is capable of.

Yeah its all fud, after all theres more PS3.0 titles coming out this year than 2.0. Which has a whopping what 5 titles to date? 3 worth playing?

PS3.0 titles:
Lord of the Rings, Battle For Middle-earth
STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl
Vampire: Bloodlines
Splinter Cell X
Tiger Woods 2005
Madden 2005
Driver 3
Grafan
Painkiller
FarCry

Unconfirmed PS3.0 titles:
Everquest 2
Dark Age of Camelot : Catacombs Expansion

PS2.0 Titles:
Tomb Raider : AOD (not even worth mentioning)
Half life 2(maybe this year?)
Farcry(also PS3.0)
3dmark 2003 (hah!)
Painkiller(also PS3.0)
Colin Mcrae 2004 (cant remember title, someone call me out on this one) (good PS2.0 game)
Halo (the only PS2.0 i play)

 

[biostud]

jeebus, they might spin in one direction or another, but no-one is going to buy a card based on these facts. It's visions, and ofcourse Nvidia is opting for SM3.0, and ATi is not.

I wonder how many really have an idea of how much difference there's going to be, and stop takeing these glares into the crystal ball too serious.

 

[Killrose]

Unfortunately for HardOCP, they are'nt using apples to apples comparisons and this leaves them looking like whinny fanboys. I think what we need is actual gameplay movies on both types of shadder instructions to get a true 2.0 vs 3.0 comparo. Or at least, some screenies of the exact same frame would certainly clarify.

 

[ronnn]

Unfortunately it may be more like July before we can do a true comparison on anything retail. I have become convinced that half life 2 and doom 3 will never be released........ It will be interesting to see the results on games such as far cry, especially if some faster cpu's make the market.

 

[eastvillager]

I think developers will be the ones who tell us whether PS 3.0 is important in this generation of video cards, not the card makers themselves, nor an opinion website.

We went through this last round with ps 2.0 and halflife. In that case, we had a very good, very immediate(...or so we thought, LOL)reason to want 2.0 capable hardware.

Looking at what I play now, and what I plan on playing in the next 6-12 months, if I had to upgrade, I'd probably get whichever solution was the best bang for the buck in PS 2.0.

 

[reever]

underlying arch limitations such as shader instruction count and flow control are still missing.

Nobody has yet to show anything that these 2 options suddenly make possible, or what not having them actually was limiting

 

[Ackmed]

Yeah because "gunning" means informing the readers?

Show me where they were wrong in anything they said.

Comments from devs tell me that PS 3.0 is not anything to get excited about, and wont be implemented for some time. Take off your blinders, and stop being so bias.

 

[Vernor]

Calling, say, Madden 2005 a "PS 3.0 Game" is just marketing hype.

Knowing EA's track record, the graphics will only have the a few
cosmetic changes from last year's version.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
ATI's TRUFORM was a form of displacement mapping too, wasn't it?

truformII includes displacement mapping.

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/radeon9700pro/index.php?page=page2.inc

 

[SilverTrine]

At the end of the day Card X has Pa3.0 and Card Y has Ps2.0 they both run a game that looks comparable in visual quality.
Card X is able to cut down Pixel Shader overhead by 10% because of Ps3.0. However since its an overall more powerful card, Card Y outperforms Card X using Ps2.0.

Card Y's the card to go for despite what amounts to a checkbox feature for Card X. When theres noticeable performance/image quality differences cropping up then we'll talk.

Anyway Nvidia's being fairly hypocritical here, the difference between Ps2.0 and Ps3.0 is a lot like how Nvidia has been running with 16 point precision and ATi has been running with 24 point precision.

 

[nitromullet]

Personally, I think games like CoD and UT2K4 look as good as games need to look

Glad we didn't have people like you making decisions for us back in the Doom I days.

 

[nemesismk2]

<deleted>

 

[Blastman]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Yeah its all fud, after all theres more PS3.0 titles coming out this year than 2.0. Which has a whopping what 5 titles to date? 3 worth playing?

PS3.0 titles:
Lord of the Rings, Battle For Middle-earth
STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl
Vampire: Bloodlines
Splinter Cell X
Tiger Woods 2005
Madden 2005
Driver 3
Grafan
Painkiller
FarCry....................

They?re games with SM3.0 support -- not PS3.0. And even the SM3.0 ? ?support? ? likely means they?ll just use/require the DX9.0c runtime package and may not have any -- or truly minimal actual SM3.0. features. Just like a lot of games now support and require? ?DX9? ? but don?t have any true DX9 features.

 

[reever]

PS3.0 titles

Do you really think all of these titles won't contain any PS2.0 code? 2.0 was also more efficient tthan 1.4, but did you start seeing everybody use even 5% the amount of 1.1/1.4 code as 2.0?

 

[Pete]

Sorry, but anyone who thinks Brent (he wrote the article, not Kyle) is "gunning" for nV or that there will be more SM3.0 than 2.0 titles on the market this year (despite the tremendously larger share of SM2.0 cards) is just exposing their ignorance or lack of critical thinking. Read the whole article and maybe understand business decisions, then comment.

It's funny how people are accusing H of "gunning" for nV when they were the first and biggest site to come out against Futuremark, and thus (indirectly) in support of nV, with the whole 3DM03 fiasco.

 

[BFG10K]

I also think it's funny how PS 2.0 was dubbed as useless by certain people (back when ATi was superior) but now PS 3.0 is being dubbed as the greatest thing since sliced bread by those same people (now that nVidia is superior).

I swear I read somewhere that pixel shaders can be used to perform anti-aliasing.

Yes they can. In theory you could use them on alpha textures to complement MSAA, eliminating the need for SSAA. I don't think you need version 3.0 to do this though.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
I also think it's funny how PS 2.0 was dubbed as useless by certain people (back when ATi was superior) but now PS 3.0 is being dubbed as the greatest thing since sliced bread by those same people (now that nVidia is superior).

I swear I read somewhere that pixel shaders can be used to perform anti-aliasing.

Yes they can. In theory you could use them on alpha textures to complement MSAA, eliminating the need for SSAA. I don't think you need version 3.0 to do this though.

The difference now BFG, is now its playable frames, not 15fps vs 30fps.

HOCP has been gunning for NV for months, making trivial articles for IQ in a SINGLE GAME when they find a problem. Or making entire articles to how us how unimportant SM3.0 is. Especially when the same site touted 2.0. Oh and their NV40 release review with "playable settings"? come on.

 

[Ackmed]

They did that before the 6800U preview. Try actually reading, then commenting. The fact is, PS 3.0 is almost impossible to make look better than PS 2.0. PS 3.0 is not a big deal, get over it already.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

PS3.0 titles:
Lord of the Rings, Battle For Middle-earth
STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl
Vampire: Bloodlines
Splinter Cell X
Tiger Woods 2005
Madden 2005
Driver 3
Grafan
Painkiller
FarCry

Unconfirmed PS3.0 titles:
Everquest 2
Dark Age of Camelot : Catacombs Expansion

PS2.0 Titles:
Tomb Raider : AOD (not even worth mentioning)
Half life 2(maybe this year?)
Farcry(also PS3.0)
3dmark 2003 (hah!)
Painkiller(also PS3.0)
Colin Mcrae 2004 (cant remember title, someone call me out on this one) (good PS2.0 game)

Add Halo to the PS2.0 list

 

[Acanthus]

Done, cant believe i forgot halo as its the only ps2 game i own

 

[g3pro]

so what you're saying is that you'd rather have PS2.0? :frown: Go ahead and find the games that programmers would want to program using PS3.0. :laugh:

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
They did that before the 6800U preview. Try actually reading, then commenting. The fact is, PS 3.0 is almost impossible to make look better than PS 2.0. PS 3.0 is not a big deal, get over it already.

Youre preaching to me about reading when youre not listening to what im saying either cheif.

SM3.0 doesnt look much better, ITS FASTER, NOT BETTER LOOKING.

PLAYABLE FRAMERATES ARE YOUR FRIEND!

 

[Acanthus]

Here is what i know about SM2.0 vs 3.0

Say you have a shader and its 500 instructions.

6800 on SM3.0 can do this in a single pass.
NV3X/R3XX/R420 (if it doesnt support SM3.0) on SM2.0 can do this in 6 passes in a best case scenario (if they can break it up to multiple 9X instruction count shaders). This will be an enormous performance hit.

That is what im getting at.

Edit: and how about a shader with 12000 instructions? now you see where im going.