Ha! Take that affirmative action

[Kroze]

<< i always bring up the asians argument. everyone says thats not fair, to compare other minorities to them. why not? i dont get it.

my roomate is black his parents are from nigeria and he was born here. I am from the philippines and my parents are from there and i was born there. I came over when i was 6. we were freaking poor. my parents work hard, and they are worth probably over a million dollars now. his parents worked hard, and they are doing great. they were immigrants too. we both go to ucla. that required work. does it matter that we are chinese or black. based on my limited experience, you do well if you work hard and work smart. crazy concept i know. but he says that people have a negative perception of black people and that like aa is ok to make up for that. man thats total bs. Im like change the perception then.


i dunno , people get mad about stereotypes and perceptions and well, outside of some really old people who are really racist and will probably die soon anyways we should be ok in the future. i mean really if there are enough people in your race who make an ass out of themselves that other people notice, maybe you should stop these people from making an ass outof themselves and causing this stereotype. whatever..... give everything 50 years, everyone will be green, and we'll all be ok >>



Looking at the general Asian American population as a whole. How many Asian Americans holding a management position??? Exactttttly. Not that many. Either we have to start our own business or work our butt off for some company. Sure there are Asian Americans working for some good companies, but their chance of holding a management position is slim to none. That's why Affirmative Action exist. It exist because of prejudice, if everyone in America is nice enough to treat everyone fairly, I'm sure the government don't have to create Affirmative Action at all.

 

[AndrewR]

Hurray! The next time I see a female officer with no leadership abilities and high rank, I'll thankfully look to this decision for such an occurence to be minimized in the future. Unfortunately, that is quite common as opposed to being a minute minority. On the subject of minorities in the military, I don't see too much of a problem except for the excessive sensitivity that abounds, and this decision doesn't address that (it goes for women also).

BTW, one of the officers I respect most in my current assignment is female.

You don't need a ton of upper body stregth to press "enter" just enough gray matter between your ears to know when to do so.

Would you be interested to know that approximately 80% of the jobs in the Army are rated as requiring from medium to heavy to very heavy lifting requirements for which the vast majority of women are physically incapable of doing? Electronics repair. Sounds simple enough -- pushing enter or the equivalent, right? How about routinely having to lift 150lb diagnostic equipment from a vehicle? How many women do you know that can do that?

The "push button" myth is annoying.

 

[Martin]

<<

<< A federal judge struck down the Army?s equal opportunities promotion process yesterday, saying the policy gives undue preference to women and minorities at the expense of white, male officers.

Full Story


Lethal >>



EXCELLENT >>



:Q

Texmaster and I just agreed on something!
Did Microsoft open source windows yet?

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< Hurray! The next time I see a female officer with no leadership abilities and high rank, I'll thankfully look to this decision for such an occurence to be minimized in the future. Unfortunately, that is quite common as opposed to being a minute minority. On the subject of minorities in the military, I don't see too much of a problem except for the excessive sensitivity that abounds, and this decision doesn't address that (it goes for women also). >>


<-------- Sighs, shakes his head and walks away.


<< We can best the boyz on this and run circles around many of em in people and communication skills, wmen are do very well in college and women are starting their own companies in record numbers,what do we need with AA laws ? >>


That kind of attitude is going to get you thrown out of the women/minorities union.

 

[Geekbabe]

<<

<< Hurray! The next time I see a female officer with no leadership abilities and high rank, I'll thankfully look to this decision for such an occurence to be minimized in the future. Unfortunately, that is quite common as opposed to being a minute minority. On the subject of minorities in the military, I don't see too much of a problem except for the excessive sensitivity that abounds, and this decision doesn't address that (it goes for women also). >>


<-------- Sighs, shakes his head and walks away.


<< We can best the boyz on this and run circles around many of em in people and communication skills, wmen are do very well in college and women are starting their own companies in record numbers,what do we need with AA laws ? >>


That kind of attitude is going to get you thrown out of the women/minorities union.

>>





LOL, hey, I've been thrown out of better places !! I call my own shots, risk much and I'll take it all in the end strictly on my own merits .. and with a lotta help from my friends

 

[StormRider]

I'm all for affimative action. How many of you guys are tired of seeing women pick their men solely on the basis of being the most qualified?

The best looking?
The nicest one?
The one with the best earning potential?
The one with the best sense of humor?
The best potential husband and father of your children?
The well endowed?

How about giving the less attractive, not-so-nice, poor sense of humor, no social skills and less endowed man a try? Hmmmm? Hmmmm? What about those types of guys?

 

[Piano Man]

This is a huge setback. People who are against affirmative action, use myths and misunderstandings for their debate. The fact is that white males are not losing their jobs and that unqualified or underqualified women and minorities are not getting the jobs instead. Check out this link.

10 Myths About Affirmative Action

 

[yellowperil]

<< I have to disagree with you there, what happened in the past is to be learned from, not used as a basis of treatment in current society. >>


I agree about learning from the past, I also agree it should not form the basis for treating people. It should, however, be a factor. Even our common law-based legal system reflects this by using precedents to make decisions.



<< The goal you SHOULD be aiming for is fairness for all, keep in mind alot of white people died for this country to break free from England. >>


Exactly, both sides are aiming for fairness, but they have different definitions. One side says fairness means attempting to correct past wrongs, the other side says fairness is equal treatment now. Both sides have their merits. As for the Revolutionary War, I do not see how it could be compared to slavery because it was the conflict between two societies rather than conflict between groups, within a society.



<< The point is you could sit there using a races previous history as bargaining chips for current practices, or you could just say "whats past is past, mistakes have been made, everyone has had trials, and injustice, lets move forward with everyone equal.". And maybe you just might get somewhere. >>


Fair enough. Again as I stated I am ambivalent about this, I brought up the other side's issue because that seems to be largely ignored in discussions about affirmative action. And I think they have a valid and reasonable point. AA is undoubtedly unequal, but ~250 years of AA for whites and ~40 years of AA for minorities seems unequal as well.

 

[veryape]

When are blacks going to get over the fact that they were segregated and treated poorly almost 50 years ago? Every race has been in pretty much identical situations in different places and times, yet they all seem to get past it and prosper, all except the blacks. Do you know why that is? It's because we cater to them every time they cry. It's like a spoiled child, they cry and get what they want and it never ends.

Black people have had almost 50 years now on a pretty much equal playing field, yet they are still in a bad way, simply because most of them want to fall back on the past and take handouts from the government for their ancestors suffering. Man, I wish it were that easy for me. I know that indians were kicked off of our land when the Europeans settled in America, and we have seen jack for reparations, and to be honest with you, I don't see how I am entitled. It happened a long time ago, and who said we owned the land anyhow. Some of it was ours, but not the whole damn country.

I truly hope all this affirmative action/reparations crap goes the way of the dodo, because it sickens me when someone gets a job before me when i'm far more qualified.

BTW, i'm a white guy that is a quarter indian. I consider myself white, and I also consider myself discriminated against on a daily basis.

Racism against colored people today in America is a joke. It doesn't exist. The white people are now discriminated against with more regularity, but we are to eager to give in to every minorities complaints rather than stick up for our own race. You don't ever hear a black man talking about how whites are discriminated against, so why the hell should I do the same for him? We should all be judged on our abilities, not our skin color.

 

[manly]

veryape,

Considering you're technically a person of color, your bigotry and ignorance is particularly appalling.

You're walking proof racism is still alive and well in America 2002.

 

[AndrewR]

<-------- Sighs, shakes his head and walks away.

Oh, the horror. Do you want a female skipper whose "textbook" career isn't borne out by her actual ability yet puts her into a command billet?

Answer this question: How many male members of the military have you met who either expressed an abhorrence for war, declared themselves as pacifists, or stated a dislike of some situations or locations as being "too military"? My count, to date, for those three categories is zero for men, five for women. Considering the numbers of each respective gender in the services, that is a telling statistic by my observation.

Even our common law-based legal system reflects this by using precedents to make decisions.

While your statement is true, the precendent is NOT to use race (or gender) as a basis for decisions, as was done in the past with discriminatory practices, but to throw race out completely and to decide solely on merit. Precedent means that the common law system learned from a particular situation and sets it right so that a similar situation will be prevented in the future (or appropriately punished). It does not mean that the first situation causes the law to go 180 degrees and "makes up for" what happened in the past.

 

[Capn]

"You're walking proof racism is still alive and well in America 2002. "

And you're walking proof that PC weenies don't really understand what racism is all about. Veryape's post wasn't very sensitive or tactful (no offense) however it wasn't racist.

Frankly, the ease with which some people throw out the names of racist or bigot sicken me.


I'm all for affirmitive action, I want to see more white/asian/hispanic guys in the NBA and NFL, oh wait that's different somehow right?

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< Oh, the horror. Do you want a female skipper whose "textbook" career isn't borne out by her actual ability yet puts her into a command billet? >>




<< Answer this question: How many male members of the military have you met who either expressed an abhorrence for war, declared themselves as pacifists, or stated a dislike of some situations or locations as being "too military"? My count, to date, for those three categories is zero for men, five for women. Considering the numbers of each respective gender in the services, that is a telling statistic by my observation. >>



<----Sighs, starts to say something, realizes it will do no good, shakes his head, and walks away again.

 

[manly]

Correct me if I'm wrong but labeling an entire race the way he did is bigotry.

And I didn't call him a racist, but those comments were entirely a form of racism. It wasn't just poor tact. If you disagree, then you're entitled to your opinion. I don't retract my statement one iota. And frankly, I could care less if that sickens you.

I don't think you said anything (besides petty insults to me) to prove a point otherwise. My point is simply that prejudice, some forms of discrimination, and even outright racism are quite common today. I know I've seen it and read enough to convince me of it, and I scoff at the notion that our society is but a footstep away from general equality of opportunity. That opinion doesn't make me any less American than anyone else.

There were other replies in this thread that essentially implied an entire race as inferior. I'll object to that stupid belief any day of the year.

 

[b0mbrman]

 

[b0mbrman]

 

[Ferocious]

It's a shame AA is still needed in this day and age.

But sadly there are still too many conservatives (and even some hypocritical liberals) out their in management positions.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

when i say "emphasis in education" i am referring to an aspect of the culture, not the quality of schooling provided by the government. when people value education, they will overcome the shortcomings of the schools by tutoring their own children.

The irony in America is that historically (I know some of you HATE that word) blacks and native americans (that could not pass for white) were denied equal educational opportunities by forbidding attendance at the "white" and typically "male" schools and what few schools that were dedicated to their education HBCUs etc were woefully underfunded. Distant history you say . . . our Attorney General no less opposed equitable funding to HBCUs in his state as AG and Gov (I believe). In my state, the flagship bastion of liberalism UNC-Chapel Hill has been educating blacks for less than 40yrs. And let's not even get into the terrible condition of K-12 throughout America.

Quotas hurt everyone involved. Better students may be denied an opportunity. Weaker students may be advanced beyond their abilities. SAT scores may have little actual value but if you're going to establish standards . . . everyone should have to meet them . . . period. Clarence Thomas is an excellent example of affirmative action assisting a person with potential. Unfortunately, he's also an excellent example of affirmative action elevating someone to a post b/c he was capable not necessarily the best candidate.

We all know the playing field is not level. Hard work and determination are necessary but not sufficient for success in America. I know plenty of people with those characteristics that will never become physicians. But if you've got money for a post-bac program or can afford several years of grad school or your father's a dean . . . your odds are a whole lot better. Regardless, gopunk and others have clearly identified the disconnect between potential and actual achievement in many minority communities. It has to begin at home and for whatever reason(s) many minority families are not getting the job done.

Denying anyone opportunity today b/c of opportunity denied to someone else in the past cannot be justified.

 

[manly]

<<
How can facts be racist and opinionated? Asian Ams *are* succeeding per this link

>>



Because your BS hypothesis is that since Asians have done fairly well for themselves in the past couple decades, African Americans can't make it in this equal world. Most of that are your words, and I take them at face value: racist comments.

Note I don't know you, and don't claim that you are a racist or otherwise. I can only read the words you offer.

Statistics are actually nice to look at, but I didn't need to read numbers to believe that Asian Americans are fairly successful as a demographic group.

However, I believe you've also bought into the myth of Asians as the "model minority". Many of us have made it, and many of us are on the right track. At the same time, some Southeast Asian ethnicities are amongst the highest percentage of those on welfare rolls in America (this is old data; I don't know what's happened since welfare as neutered in 1998). The statistics you provide also bear that out to some extent. Note that a large number of high-income earners are Asian, and that the median Asian income is healthy. However, the average is not nearly as robust, indicating there are many Asian Americans who work for peanuts as well.

Your hypothetis of superiority only works if it was the logical conclusion of a carefully controlled scientific study where subjects were afforded identical opportunity, education, living standards, etc. etc. to determine the eventual outcome. Instead, you've somehow already decided that society is pretty darn equal, and is even favoring African Americans.

If you go back to your statistics, do you think it's just a mild coincidence that the two ethnic groups (Native and African Americans) with the lower median salary numbers happen to be the ones who dealt with the heaviest racism and disenfranchisement in this nation's history? It must be just dumb luck that unemployment on reservations was 58% in 1997. Throw your ass in the middle of the desert without many of the benefits of urban civilization and you'd still be where you are today, no?

 

[KokomoGST]

<< Because your BS hypothesis is that since Asians have done fairly well for themselves in the past couple decades, African Americans can't make it in this equal world. Most of that are your words, and I take them at face value: racist comments. >>

I'm azn and I have to absolutely positively agree. It's the entire mindset that there is even ground... there isn't. Asians despite their "success" are treated like second class citizens in manymany places.

There is a glass ceiling in white dominated companies for ALL minorities... not to mention that you're disgracing all asian ethnicities by the very fact that you decided to lump them all together. That's similar to lumping all the Hispanic communities together. Convenient for statistical purposes but it just doesn't work because as groups, we're all quite different. It's like saying Irish Americans are the same as Italian Americans since they're all white. I'm sure you're going to piss some people off royally if you said that on TV. Disrespect and ignorance are prevalent... sheesh, on top of racial ignorance there's religious and gender issues.

Asians are a model minority is utter bullcrap... I spent most of college further disproving it. It's already been disproven. It's like saying the post-modern philosophy of "no absolute truth" is a workable philosophy. The majority of the philosophic community and the entire Jewish community are in agreement there.

So the playing field is not level and that's OK? Especially when it's not fault of minorities? And then you talk about fairness? Hypocritical...
Disenfranchised? Minorities were never enfranchised to lose that... consider that Hispanics will outnumber the white population soon... and then the Asian population will follow suit as the 2nd largest minority community. Why do we still see so little attention to Hispanic or Asian issues or representation on the Hill?

 

[b0mbrman]