Haswell vs haswell refresh?

[Humphries]

Hey guys, i've been reading your forums a bit and I think I know the answer to my question but I want your opinion. Firstly, sorry if this is in the wrong section, i guess it could be in the motherboard section. Anyway i am wondering what motherboard/socket/cpu combination i should get. I would be using my computer for gaming and maybe some heavy multitasking? An i5 is probably all i need but i am happy to get an i7. I dont overclock (i dont really know if theres much benefit when i wouldnt really need the extra power and it would void warranty). I am wondering if i should wait for the haswell refresh or stick with the haswell-k. I dont care about getting an 4770k chip or a refresh chip, as i know the benefit will be minour but i would be more concered with a motherboard change. From what i hear it will still be the 1550 socket but be tinkered. Do you guys think the boards will upgrade more than than just the power change that is speculated? I dont want to be stuck with an obsolete board I guess (even though it would probably be fine for me for many years). I am thinking about a new build because my psu just died in my older comp. Had an i7 860? On 1156. I suppose i am a bit anal about have the lastest standards. 1550 seems to have a few drawbacks, so i was wonder when is the right time to buy.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Haswell refresh is a +100Mhz speedbin. And the only change that might affect old boards is the ability to run the Broadwell-K chips.

If you are not going for Broadwell-K, there is essentially nothing to wait for.

 

[OCGuy]

100mhz bump, as mentioned, and a possible stepping change.

 

[Humphries]

Ah right. Thanks a lot. It's honestly been real confusing reading up on all of this, just because of speculation and guessing really. Last thing I heard was that broadwell will be for mobile devices only? But as you can tell, I am no expert.

Broadwell is about a year away now isn't it? My situation is that I have a mediocore desktop now that needs a new psu but in a years time I will probably need a laptop for uni. So I am not sure whether to make my old pc a htpc now and build a new destop or just wait.

But if I built one now with 1150 and a 4770k I wouldnt have a problem in the near future would I? Don't think many of you can see into the future but what do you think?

 

[beginner99]

Ah right. Thanks a lot. It's honestly been real confusing reading up on all of this, just because of speculation and guessing really. Last thing I heard was that broadwell will be for mobile devices only? But as you can tell, I am no expert.

Broadwell is about a year away now isn't it? My situation is that I have a mediocore desktop now that needs a new psu but in a years time I will probably need a laptop for uni. So I am not sure whether to make my old pc a htpc now and build a new destop or just wait.

But if I built one now with 1150 and a 4770k I wouldnt have a problem in the near future would I? Don't think many of you can see into the future but what do you think?

broadwell-k is AFAIK the only desktop broadwell that will be available. And it probably will not be cheap. I suspect more than a current 4770k.

The real successor on desktop will be skylake sometime in 2015.

 

[Humphries]

Ok now it's making more sense. Thanks a lot guys. Might be time to upgrade then.

 

[tolis626]

Damn Intel and their sockets.I want to buy a Haswell system now and be able to upgrade my CPU in the future without having to throw away half of my system.That's the only thing I liked about AMD.It seemed you're stuck with the nearly obsolete AM3 and boom! with a bios update you have AM3+.I know it's not the same,but damn,I wanted to say it.

Anyway,to not be off topic here.You will most probably be okay with a Haswell system for the foreseeable future.More so if you go with the 4770k instead of the 4670k,so even if there is a sudden switch to more parallel workloads,you'll have 8 threads to back you up.Also,don't dismiss the idea of overclocking.You can achieve huge performance gains by a significant overclock.Right now it may not matter that much if all you do is game and browse the net,but you're bound to be CPU-limited at some point in the future,be it distant or close.At least having the option of overclocking (So we're talking about a -k series SKU) is a form of future-proofing.It won't magically make your CPU faster than the newer ones,but it surely will close the gap by quite a lot.

 

[bgt]

At least having the option of overclocking (So we're talking about a -k series SKU) is a form of future-proofing.It won't magically make your CPU faster than the newer ones,but it surely will close the gap by quite a lot.

The 4770K is not a very good OC'er. You have to be lucky to have a cool 4770K. I have 2 and they are both not very good OC'ers. But they are good enough as they are:biggrin:

 

[tolis626]

The 4770K is not a very good OC'er. You have to be lucky to have a cool 4770K. I have 2 and they are both not very good OC'ers. But they are good enough as they are:biggrin:

I don't disagree with you,but it will overclock at least somewhat.Most chips will do at least 4.2GHz.You just need a decent (Not really expensive) cooler to keep the temperatures down.That's a healthy boost in my book.

Then there are those whose chips clock like there is no tomorrow.Balla comes to mind.I wish I get a CPU that does at least 4.6GHz...

 

[Mand]

The 4770K is not a very good OC'er. You have to be lucky to have a cool 4770K. I have 2 and they are both not very good OC'ers. But they are good enough as they are:biggrin:

This gets said a lot, and while it is true to get an extreme overclock on a Haswell takes either extreme luck or voiding your warranty, even a modest 4.2-4.3 GHz will net significant performance gains over stock.

Sure, they might not be able to push 5Ghz, but I'd still rather get a K than not.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

K also helps locking all cores at max turbo, instead of the stupid lower turbo the other cores get.
*off-topic* I wish intel would integrate a turbo 2.0. It boosts to a guaranteed speed, but some go higher. Might make people mad though when 1 CPU gets a 4.5 turbo, while another gets stock 3.9. And TDP issues come in.

 

[coffeejunkee]

i7 860 is still pretty good. I say start trying overclocking now, 3.8GHz should be fairly easy, 4GHz is usually also possible although powerconsumption starts to go through the roof.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

i7 860 is still pretty good. I say start trying overclocking now, 3.8GHz should be fairly easy, 4GHz is usually also possible although powerconsumption starts to go through the roof.

Most original core i's came with locked down bioses AFAICT. All I've seen had no overclocking options.

 

[Mand]

i7 860 is still pretty good. I say start trying overclocking now, 3.8GHz should be fairly easy, 4GHz is usually also possible although powerconsumption starts to go through the roof.

Have to give the i7 860 credit for a job well done. Have one in my current machine, and it's held up for over four years. Sure, newer things are better, but I'm surprised at how well it does now despite being old. Now, the AMD 5870 I got at the same time, however, is definitely starting to show signs of age. Poor thing just can't keep up nowadays.

 

[-slash-]

broadwell-k is AFAIK the only desktop broadwell that will be available. And it probably will not be cheap. I suspect more than a current 4770k.

The real successor on desktop will be skylake sometime in 2015.

Do you have a source for this? I'm trying to decide on whether to wait for Broadwell or just get a Haswell. I want to swap my Sandybridge into my HTPC and get an i7 for my gaming rig.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Most original core i's came with locked down bioses AFAICT. All I've seen had no overclocking options.

Actually, all first gen core i cpu's have overclocking options since you can just overclock the bclk. Only pre-built systems like Dell etc. would have a bios without oc options.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Actually, all first gen core i cpu's have overclocking options since you can just overclock the bclk. Only pre-built systems like Dell etc. would have a bios without oc options.

That must be it, only messed with prebuilts.

 

[Fjodor2001]

If it's just a measly 100 MHz speed-bin, why even bother giving it a name like "Haswell Refresh". How ridiculous is that?

 

[RU482]

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/...efresh_Haswell_desktop_lineup_in_Q2_2014.html

 

[jpiniero]

If it's just a measly 100 MHz speed-bin, why even bother giving it a name like "Haswell Refresh". How ridiculous is that?

It is technically different since they added support for the new chipset.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Damn Intel and their sockets.I want to buy a Haswell system now and be able to upgrade my CPU in the future without having to throw away half of my system.That's the only thing I liked about AMD.It seemed you're stuck with the nearly obsolete AM3 and boom! with a bios update you have AM3+.I know it's not the same,but damn,I wanted to say it.

Anyway,to not be off topic here.You will most probably be okay with a Haswell system for the foreseeable future.More so if you go with the 4770k instead of the 4670k,so even if there is a sudden switch to more parallel workloads,you'll have 8 threads to back you up.Also,don't dismiss the idea of overclocking.You can achieve huge performance gains by a significant overclock.Right now it may not matter that much if all you do is game and browse the net,but you're bound to be CPU-limited at some point in the future,be it distant or close.At least having the option of overclocking (So we're talking about a -k series SKU) is a form of future-proofing.It won't magically make your CPU faster than the newer ones,but it surely will close the gap by quite a lot.

Unless you bought an i3 or lower CPU, I can't see how there is much value in someone buying a Haswell i5 4670K and then upgrading to a Broadwell version of whatever on the same motherboard, unless you can sell your 1st CPU to someone and that probably just means you only end up with only 10% better performance anyway.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It is technically different since they added support for the new chipset.

So as usual, Intel sockets/chipsets are obsolete almost by the time they are released.

 

[tolis626]

Unless you bought an i3 or lower CPU, I can't see how there is much value in someone buying a Haswell i5 4670K and then upgrading to a Broadwell version of whatever on the same motherboard, unless you can sell your 1st CPU to someone and that probably just means you only end up with only 10% better performance anyway.

If you were talking to someone who only bases their purchases on logic,you'd be right.

Well,there are a couple of reasons I'd like to update.First and foremost is if I get an upgrade itch but don't have the money to replace the whole system (Mobo and CPU at least),a simple CPU update should be enough,even if the performance improvements are negligible.Secondly,if I get the 4670k,there is always the chance that games from now on become heavily threaded,so I'd want HT.And last but not least,if my CPU turns out to be a dud in terms of overclocking,I'm ready to upgrade from a 4670k to a 4770k,just because I want high clocks.

Again,I don't ask you to find any logic in what I say,but that's what I have in mind.

 

[CHADBOGA]

If you were talking to someone who only bases their purchases on logic,you'd be right.

Well,there are a couple of reasons I'd like to update.First and foremost is if I get an upgrade itch but don't have the money to replace the whole system (Mobo and CPU at least),a simple CPU update should be enough,even if the performance improvements are negligible.Secondly,if I get the 4670k,there is always the chance that games from now on become heavily threaded,so I'd want HT.And last but not least,if my CPU turns out to be a dud in terms of overclocking,I'm ready to upgrade from a 4670k to a 4770k,just because I want high clocks.

Again,I don't ask you to find any logic in what I say,but that's what I have in mind.

I don't think there is any chance that games are going to become so heavily threaded, that a 4670K overclocked modestly to 4.0Ghz, would be any kind of concern, for at least 5 years, maybe even 10 years.

But as you have said that logic plays no role here, then . . . . :biggrin:

 

[Humphries]

Thanks for your input guys. Yeah, I think its an 860. I can't be completely sure as my psu is dead and I cant check without ripping everything apart. I've never had a problem with the cpu I dont think. I've never maxed I dont think. Its more so my other parts that need upgrading and I kinda wanted to start fresh, plus I would use the chip if it fitted newer boards. I'm thinking I should sell it and maybe build a new pc for myself and maybe a htpc from scratch too. But anyway, thanks a lot.