Home Theater equipment

[imported_bum]

Axiom and Ascend seem to offer good speakers for that price range.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard
You any good at woodworking and/or soldering?

If you can build a good, sturdy box [at least 3/4" thick walls with internal bracing], build one with a 3 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 (the larger the better) internal volume, and drop in a Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" driver. Add some Dacron/Acousta-Stuff/fiberglass stuffing, hook it up to a 250W sub amp, and you've got yourself a $260 (plus shipping and box material cost) amp that'll hit a clean 100dB @ 20Hz in an open field, and at LEAST 115dB @ 20Hz in your room. Seriously beats the pants off anything I can think of, for that much.

If you take this route, it leaves at least $1100 for receiver and speakers, with a better sub than you'd otherwise have bought.

Please, if you have the spare time and have access to decent wood power tools, do yourself a favor and build something yourself [if you have to learn how, that can be fun too], even if it's just the sub. Your ears and wallet will thank you.

Hey, I am DIYer as well, but you might need to rethink your design (or at least your expectations). That particular driver, in a sealed design, will not hit 115dB @ 20Hz in room, no sir.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard
You any good at woodworking and/or soldering?

If you can build a good, sturdy box [at least 3/4" thick walls with internal bracing], build one with a 3 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 (the larger the better) internal volume, and drop in a Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" driver. Add some Dacron/Acousta-Stuff/fiberglass stuffing, hook it up to a 250W sub amp, and you've got yourself a $260 (plus shipping and box material cost) amp that'll hit a clean 100dB @ 20Hz in an open field, and at LEAST 115dB @ 20Hz in your room. Seriously beats the pants off anything I can think of, for that much.

If you take this route, it leaves at least $1100 for receiver and speakers, with a better sub than you'd otherwise have bought.

Please, if you have the spare time and have access to decent wood power tools, do yourself a favor and build something yourself [if you have to learn how, that can be fun too], even if it's just the sub. Your ears and wallet will thank you.

Hey, I am DIYer as well, but you might need to rethink your design (or at least your expectations). That particular driver, in a sealed design, will not hit 115dB @ 20Hz in room, no sir.

I've already modeled it and it does hit 99dB at 20Hz with 250W in open space (theoretically, of course, but you know it's give or take, not just take). Assuming 16' is the longest dimension of the room - which it seems to be - the frequency at which room pressurization occurs is 140Hz. Below that, room gain occurs at about 6db/octave. Meaning, +6dB at 70Hz, +12dB at 35Hz, +18dB at 17.5Hz.

Modeled transfer function:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealed.gif

Modeled max SPL:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealedmaxspl.gif

EDIT: ******, I confused the formula for calculating the freq at which room gain begins with the frequency below which discrete bass modes occur. Nevertheless, room gain starts around 150-200Hz in most rooms and with a little more research I find that +9dB at 20Hz is the norm. Therefore I must conclude that my initial venturing of 115dB@20Hz is probably false, and 110dB@20Hz is more accurate.Still, that's loud... and don't forget accurate.

A few more dB can be eked out with a larger enclosure and a 400W input (the driver's max).

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard
You any good at woodworking and/or soldering?

If you can build a good, sturdy box [at least 3/4" thick walls with internal bracing], build one with a 3 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 (the larger the better) internal volume, and drop in a Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" driver. Add some Dacron/Acousta-Stuff/fiberglass stuffing, hook it up to a 250W sub amp, and you've got yourself a $260 (plus shipping and box material cost) amp that'll hit a clean 100dB @ 20Hz in an open field, and at LEAST 115dB @ 20Hz in your room. Seriously beats the pants off anything I can think of, for that much.

If you take this route, it leaves at least $1100 for receiver and speakers, with a better sub than you'd otherwise have bought.

Please, if you have the spare time and have access to decent wood power tools, do yourself a favor and build something yourself [if you have to learn how, that can be fun too], even if it's just the sub. Your ears and wallet will thank you.

Hey, I am DIYer as well, but you might need to rethink your design (or at least your expectations). That particular driver, in a sealed design, will not hit 115dB @ 20Hz in room, no sir.

I've already modeled it and it does hit 99dB at 20Hz with 250W in open space (theoretically, of course, but you know it's give or take, not just take). Assuming 16' is the longest dimension of the room - which it seems to be - the frequency at which room pressurization occurs is 140Hz. Below that, room gain occurs at about 6db/octave. Meaning, +6dB at 70Hz, +12dB at 35Hz, +18dB at 17.5Hz.

Modeled transfer function:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealed.gif

Modeled max SPL:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealedmaxspl.gif

I am familiar with room gain, and winisd. Modeling a sub, and building it are two different things however.

He should look at a ported or dual-sealed option...IMO.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard
You any good at woodworking and/or soldering?

If you can build a good, sturdy box [at least 3/4" thick walls with internal bracing], build one with a 3 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 (the larger the better) internal volume, and drop in a Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" driver. Add some Dacron/Acousta-Stuff/fiberglass stuffing, hook it up to a 250W sub amp, and you've got yourself a $260 (plus shipping and box material cost) amp that'll hit a clean 100dB @ 20Hz in an open field, and at LEAST 115dB @ 20Hz in your room. Seriously beats the pants off anything I can think of, for that much.

If you take this route, it leaves at least $1100 for receiver and speakers, with a better sub than you'd otherwise have bought.

Please, if you have the spare time and have access to decent wood power tools, do yourself a favor and build something yourself [if you have to learn how, that can be fun too], even if it's just the sub. Your ears and wallet will thank you.

Hey, I am DIYer as well, but you might need to rethink your design (or at least your expectations). That particular driver, in a sealed design, will not hit 115dB @ 20Hz in room, no sir.

I've already modeled it and it does hit 99dB at 20Hz with 250W in open space (theoretically, of course, but you know it's give or take, not just take). Assuming 16' is the longest dimension of the room - which it seems to be - the frequency at which room pressurization occurs is 140Hz. Below that, room gain occurs at about 6db/octave. Meaning, +6dB at 70Hz, +12dB at 35Hz, +18dB at 17.5Hz.

Modeled transfer function:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealed.gif

Modeled max SPL:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealedmaxspl.gif

I am familiar with room gain, and winisd. Modeling a sub, and building it are two different things however.

He should look at a ported or dual-sealed option...IMO.

Dual sealed?

I wouldn't recommend a ported box for his first endeavor into DIY audio.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard
You any good at woodworking and/or soldering?

If you can build a good, sturdy box [at least 3/4" thick walls with internal bracing], build one with a 3 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 (the larger the better) internal volume, and drop in a Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" driver. Add some Dacron/Acousta-Stuff/fiberglass stuffing, hook it up to a 250W sub amp, and you've got yourself a $260 (plus shipping and box material cost) amp that'll hit a clean 100dB @ 20Hz in an open field, and at LEAST 115dB @ 20Hz in your room. Seriously beats the pants off anything I can think of, for that much.

If you take this route, it leaves at least $1100 for receiver and speakers, with a better sub than you'd otherwise have bought.

Please, if you have the spare time and have access to decent wood power tools, do yourself a favor and build something yourself [if you have to learn how, that can be fun too], even if it's just the sub. Your ears and wallet will thank you.

Hey, I am DIYer as well, but you might need to rethink your design (or at least your expectations). That particular driver, in a sealed design, will not hit 115dB @ 20Hz in room, no sir.

I've already modeled it and it does hit 99dB at 20Hz with 250W in open space (theoretically, of course, but you know it's give or take, not just take). Assuming 16' is the longest dimension of the room - which it seems to be - the frequency at which room pressurization occurs is 140Hz. Below that, room gain occurs at about 6db/octave. Meaning, +6dB at 70Hz, +12dB at 35Hz, +18dB at 17.5Hz.

Modeled transfer function:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealed.gif

Modeled max SPL:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealedmaxspl.gif

I am familiar with room gain, and winisd. Modeling a sub, and building it are two different things however.

He should look at a ported or dual-sealed option...IMO.

Dual sealed?

I wouldn't recommend a ported box for his first endeavor into DIY audio.

Yes, two sealed subs.

Why, because you think he might mess it up? Because sealed subs are easier to build effectively? (Yeah, there is a bit of truth to that).

However, those reasons are not good enough IMO. As long as you use a proper port diameter, and tune the sub somewhat correctly, you're golden.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Howard
You any good at woodworking and/or soldering?

If you can build a good, sturdy box [at least 3/4" thick walls with internal bracing], build one with a 3 ft^3 to 4 ft^3 (the larger the better) internal volume, and drop in a Dayton RSS315HF-4 12" driver. Add some Dacron/Acousta-Stuff/fiberglass stuffing, hook it up to a 250W sub amp, and you've got yourself a $260 (plus shipping and box material cost) amp that'll hit a clean 100dB @ 20Hz in an open field, and at LEAST 115dB @ 20Hz in your room. Seriously beats the pants off anything I can think of, for that much.

If you take this route, it leaves at least $1100 for receiver and speakers, with a better sub than you'd otherwise have bought.

Please, if you have the spare time and have access to decent wood power tools, do yourself a favor and build something yourself [if you have to learn how, that can be fun too], even if it's just the sub. Your ears and wallet will thank you.

Hey, I am DIYer as well, but you might need to rethink your design (or at least your expectations). That particular driver, in a sealed design, will not hit 115dB @ 20Hz in room, no sir.

I've already modeled it and it does hit 99dB at 20Hz with 250W in open space (theoretically, of course, but you know it's give or take, not just take). Assuming 16' is the longest dimension of the room - which it seems to be - the frequency at which room pressurization occurs is 140Hz. Below that, room gain occurs at about 6db/octave. Meaning, +6dB at 70Hz, +12dB at 35Hz, +18dB at 17.5Hz.

Modeled transfer function:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealed.gif

Modeled max SPL:

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton12hf3pt5cuftsealedmaxspl.gif

I am familiar with room gain, and winisd. Modeling a sub, and building it are two different things however.

He should look at a ported or dual-sealed option...IMO.

Dual sealed?

I wouldn't recommend a ported box for his first endeavor into DIY audio.

Yes, two sealed subs.

Response gets evened out, and bass localization becomes much less of a problem (if one exists), but two enclosures means twice the work and almost twice the cost. I'm a little fuzzy on this, but if you power them in series (same power input) you end up with the same SPL, but in parallel you get +6dB? You would need an amp stable to 2 ohms in that case, though.

Why, because you think he might mess it up? Because sealed subs are easier to build effectively? (Yeah, there is a bit of truth to that).

Not just that. With HT, it's important to have a rumble filter, especially seeing that some movies have ridiculous amounts of infrabass content. Not too difficult to add, but extra complexity nonetheless. More importantly, IMO, it's easier to get a flat response after room gain is included with a sealed sub than a ported sub. It's not too hard to get a [vented box's] response flat to ~20Hz with an F3 of 16Hz in free air, but you get a hump in-room because it's flat. Ideally, room gain "mirrors" the free air response (or vice versa) so that you end up with a flat response to an arbitrary frequency down below, 10Hz, 20Hz, 25Hz, whatever, and from what I've seen, sealed boxes more commonly exhibit this kind of behaviour.

EDIT: Group delay is another thing, but I won't say it's a major factor since a well-designed vented sub minimizes it beyond the point of audibility. Will reply tomorrow.

Sealed sub, modeled response:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=366440&stamp=1081327935

In-room response:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=366441&stamp=1081328162

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard


Yes, two sealed subs.

Response gets evened out, and bass localization becomes much less of a problem (if one exists), but two enclosures means twice the work and twice the cost. I'm a little fuzzy on this, but if you power them in series (same power input) you end up with the same SPL, but in parallel you get +6dB? You would need an amp stable to 2 ohms in that case, though.

Why, because you think he might mess it up? Because sealed subs are easier to build effectively? (Yeah, there is a bit of truth to that).

Not just that. With HT, it's important to have a rumble filter, especially seeing that some movies have ridiculous amounts of infrabass content. Not too difficult to add, but extra complexity nonetheless. More importantly, IMO, it's easier to get a flat response after room gain is included with a sealed sub than a ported sub. In free air, it's not too hard to get a [vented box's] response flat to ~20Hz with an F3 of 18Hz, but you get a hump because it's flat. Ideally, room gain "mirrors" the free air response so that you end up with a flat response to an arbitrary frequency down below, 10Hz, 20Hz, 25Hz, whatever, and from what I've seen, sealed boxes more commonly exhibit this kind of behaviour.

Sealed sub, modeled response:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=366440&stamp=1081327935

In-room response:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=366441&stamp=1081328162[/quote]

Well of course a localization should not exist assuming a 80Hz or lower xover. And I meant two seperate subs (they could be individually powered with a plate amp, or a pro amp could be used with one sub per channel).

Yes, yes, a high-pass filter so that the driver does not bottom out. This can be acheived quite easily (in fact, I believe that the PE plate amps have built in rumble filters). I am assuming that any diy sub would also be EQed properly. In such a case, acheiving a flat FR is not a problem.

And most "standard" sealed subs of the type that you have modeled will not extend far below 20Hz with much authority.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard


Yes, two sealed subs.

Response gets evened out, and bass localization becomes much less of a problem (if one exists), but two enclosures means twice the work and twice the cost. I'm a little fuzzy on this, but if you power them in series (same power input) you end up with the same SPL, but in parallel you get +6dB? You would need an amp stable to 2 ohms in that case, though.

Why, because you think he might mess it up? Because sealed subs are easier to build effectively? (Yeah, there is a bit of truth to that).

Not just that. With HT, it's important to have a rumble filter, especially seeing that some movies have ridiculous amounts of infrabass content. Not too difficult to add, but extra complexity nonetheless. More importantly, IMO, it's easier to get a flat response after room gain is included with a sealed sub than a ported sub. In free air, it's not too hard to get a [vented box's] response flat to ~20Hz with an F3 of 18Hz, but you get a hump because it's flat. Ideally, room gain "mirrors" the free air response so that you end up with a flat response to an arbitrary frequency down below, 10Hz, 20Hz, 25Hz, whatever, and from what I've seen, sealed boxes more commonly exhibit this kind of behaviour.

Sealed sub, modeled response:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=366440&stamp=1081327935

In-room response:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=366441&stamp=1081328162

Well of course a localization should not exist assuming a 80Hz or lower xover. And I meant two seperate subs (they could be individually powered with a plate amp, or a pro amp could be used with one sub per channel).[/quote]
Should not, but only in theory. Distortion and output from the enclosure can be at a higher frequency (2nd order HD at a 80Hz signal is 160Hz).

Yes, yes, a high-pass filter so that the driver does not bottom out. This can be acheived quite easily (in fact, I believe that the PE plate amps have built in rumble filters). I am assuming that any diy sub would also be EQed properly. In such a case, acheiving a flat FR is not a problem.

Damn EQ, I keep forgetting about that. You're right; any good sub amp has a built-in rumble filter.

And most "standard" sealed subs of the type that you have modeled will not extend far below 20Hz with much authority.

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

 

[akubi]

Originally posted by: brunswickite

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Go to AVS Forums.

They have some awesome powerbuys right now.

I just ordered a Samsung 56" HL-S 5687 for $2,495. This TV just came out and does 1080p. The 50" version is $2,195 on the powerbuy.

I've seen the 720p Samsungs for under $2,000.

If you want the link, send me a PM.

Text

This is the TV i am looking right now.

1500 shipped.

don't get the HL-R's if you are gonna play consoles on it. they have a 1s video delay that really screws up gaming. Samsung made a special "gaming mode" for these dlps but even that still has .5s-ish video lag.

as always, do some research on the product you are looking at...

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: akubi

Originally posted by: brunswickite

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Go to AVS Forums.

They have some awesome powerbuys right now.

I just ordered a Samsung 56" HL-S 5687 for $2,495. This TV just came out and does 1080p. The 50" version is $2,195 on the powerbuy.

I've seen the 720p Samsungs for under $2,000.

If you want the link, send me a PM.

Text

This is the TV i am looking right now.

1500 shipped.

don't get the HL-R's if you are gonna play consoles on it. they have a 1s video delay that really screws up gaming. Samsung made a special "gaming mode" for these dlps but even that still has .5s-ish video lag.

as always, do some research on the product you are looking at...

AFAIK, the lag won't happen if you don't let the TV upscale the input (leave the input at SD).

 

[Thorin78]

Originally posted by: brunswickite

Originally posted by: Doggiedog
Go to AVS Forums.

They have some awesome powerbuys right now.

I just ordered a Samsung 56" HL-S 5687 for $2,495. This TV just came out and does 1080p. The 50" version is $2,195 on the powerbuy.

I've seen the 720p Samsungs for under $2,000.

If you want the link, send me a PM.

Text

This is the TV i am looking right now.

1500 shipped.

Good choice for the TV. I've got one of those, well actually the 5085W, it doesn't have a tuner and no cable card slot.

I bought a Yamaha HTR-5860 receiver
http://www.electronics-expo.com/product.jsp?x=HTR5860
a few other yamaha's here
http://www.electronics-expo.com/cat_detail.jsp?a=audio&p=3&st=sx68875&d=86

These are the front speakers I'm picking up
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp...=7035102&type=product&id=1099395865333
Besure to look at the alternate pictures on the website and you'll like those.


I'm considering these for the rear surround and center channel
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp...=7035068&type=product&id=1110263501593

And this is a decent enough woofer for my setup since I don't have a very big area to play the sound
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp...=7035086&type=product&id=1099395865217

I ran out of component inputs on the receiver and the TV so I had to go with a component switch.
http://www.buy.com/prod/Impact_Acoustic...Digital_Audio/q/loc/101/201752105.html

This switch has fiber optic inputs and component video in. It also has both outs to my receiver

So I have
cable box -> HDMI-> TV / cable box -> fiber optic -> receiver
DVD -> DVI -> TV / DVD -> fiber optic -> Receiver
replay tv -> component / fiber optic -> switch
xbox -> component /fiber optic -> switch
ps2 -> component/fiber optic - > switch
switch -> component/fiber optic -> receiver
receiver -> component -> tv

All controlled with a logitech harmony 880 remote.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Wow. This is like asking what car to buy and getting the schematics on the different cumbustion engines.

Here is what I recommend:

Screen: This varies by taste. I own a front projector and a cheap ED plasma. I probably wouldn't recommend either for you, based on what you've said.

Receiver: Depends on how much music you will be playing. Yamaha for theater only, listen more selectively if you'll be playing a lot of music. I chose a Denon 3805. Keep you eyes open for refurbed Denon (ubid, ecost) or Harmon Karden (their own website). Get a receiver with pre-outs, and you can always upgrade later to a separate amp.

Speakers: I love the monitor series from Paradigm, but music is very important to me as well. 4 mini monitors and a CC370 will give you a great sound. If you have more to spend, go up to the studio series, if less, look at the performance series or maybe the Acoustech package (about $800 including and excellent sub, comparable to Klipsch).

Sub: I use an Acoustech H100. Fantastic value sub, only about $250. You can get better for another $100-$200, like HSU or SVS. It wasn't worth it to me, but it may be to you.

This is a good package for someone with money to spend and an ear for quality. A true audiophile would want much more, and many people get by with much less, but this gets you into great sound but still good value. To get much better, you have to pay a lot more.

 

[Excelsior]

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

 

[Kelemvor]

I also recommend http://www.hometheaterforum.com

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

Aye. Seems to me that most DIYers (for HT use anyway) use 15 inchers.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

Aye. Seems to me that most DIYers (for HT use anyway) use 15 inchers.

If he was going for a pure music setup, I would have definitely recommended 2 x (2 x 15") 15" drivers in W-baffles for sweet musical stereo dipole bass bliss.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

Aye. Seems to me that most DIYers (for HT use anyway) use 15 inchers.

If he was going for a pure music setup, I would have definitely recommended 2 x (2 x 15") 15" drivers in W-baffles for sweet musical stereo dipole bass bliss.

Yet for a HT setup you recommended a single sealed 12".

 

[CellarDoor]

I've been doing a lot of research trying to put together a magnepan home theater, and based on your budget, I think your best option is to go for the av123 x-LS bookshelf speakers. They are $200 a pair but sound much better than that. Oh, and they are the best looking $200 speakers I've ever seen. You can get 2 pairs for $399 and they are coming out with the cenger channel speaker for $129. That puts you at $529 and you could splurge for 7.1 if you wanted to. Get a nice HSU sub and a H/k receiver and you're all set. I think you'd be extremely happy with that setup, both looks and sounds..

Here are some nice pics of the x-ls...
http://www.av123.com/pop_gallery.php?section=speakers&productid=82&id=4

http://www.av123.com/pop_gallery.php?section=speakers&productid=82&id=5

 

[GINOinFL]

You're going to run into problems trying to set up a "good" home theater setup for $1500, most people are recommending stuff that would send you quite a bit over your budget. I have some thoughts that you might want to consider.

You can get a pretty nice sub from www.partsexpress.com for around $150. These Dayton subs are a great value, and are highly rated. I have one and it is plenty for a small/medium room.

The total sound of a system is more dependent on the speakers that the receiver (there are many good receivers), so spend most of your money there. You shouldn't have to spend more than $500 to get a pretty nice receiver, prob $400. I got an HK AVR240 from Circuit City for $400 that I'm very pleased with. There are so many good inexpensive receivers out there that you could go crazy trying to pick out the best one.

The poster that mentioned AV123 was prob the best for speakers in your price range, IMHO. Also consider Athena speakers.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

Aye. Seems to me that most DIYers (for HT use anyway) use 15 inchers.

If he was going for a pure music setup, I would have definitely recommended 2 x (2 x 15") 15" drivers in W-baffles for sweet musical stereo dipole bass bliss.

Yet for a HT setup you recommended a single sealed 12".

Well... music and HT are different animals. I would have put more money into the sub since for music you only need 2 speakers.

Besides, I think he would be satisfied with the sealed 12".

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

Aye. Seems to me that most DIYers (for HT use anyway) use 15 inchers.

If he was going for a pure music setup, I would have definitely recommended 2 x (2 x 15") 15" drivers in W-baffles for sweet musical stereo dipole bass bliss.

Yet for a HT setup you recommended a single sealed 12".

Well... music and HT are different animals. I would have put more money into the sub since for music you only need 2 speakers.

Besides, I think he would be satisfied with the sealed 12".

Indeed they are, but in many cases, a single well designed sub can handle both duties quite admirably.

IMO, a HT sub is just as important as a music sub. If anything, it is more important since their is usually much deeper bass in movies than in music and action sequences, bass for dramatic effect and the such are very critical to the listening experience.

A ported 15" sub using this driver would be most excellent for HT use (as well as for music).

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Given the same F3, a vented box drops off faster than a sealed one does. Of course, that doesn't really help the case of the sealed sub if the same driver has an F3 of 16.5Hz when vented, as opposed to an F3 of 41Hz when sealed. But group delay goes massive...

Modeling (sealed 4ft^3 vs vented 6ft^3 tuned to 17Hz):

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedtransferfunc.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedmaxspl.gif
http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/comparesealedvsventedgroupdelay.gif

Is the group delay audible? I don't know. It might be.

I believe that the recommended design for this driver is 3.4 cuft, tuned to 21 Hz. This greatly reduces group delay.

http://www.rootminus1.com/howard/pics/dayton3pt4ft21hzventedGD.gif

Well, it's better. Output under 20Hz is worse, but I suppose you can't expect too much out of a 12".

Aye. Seems to me that most DIYers (for HT use anyway) use 15 inchers.

If he was going for a pure music setup, I would have definitely recommended 2 x (2 x 15") 15" drivers in W-baffles for sweet musical stereo dipole bass bliss.

Yet for a HT setup you recommended a single sealed 12".

Well... music and HT are different animals. I would have put more money into the sub since for music you only need 2 speakers.

Besides, I think he would be satisfied with the sealed 12".

Indeed they are, but in many cases, a single well designed sub can handle both duties quite admirably.

IMO, a HT sub is just as important as a music sub. If anything, it is more important since their is usually much deeper bass in movies than in music and action sequences, bass for dramatic effect and the such are very critical to the listening experience.

I know, but dipole bass, though superior to monopole bass, cannot reproduce the same SPL. That's why it's much more suitable for music than for HT, and why I didn't recommend it initially.

A ported 15" sub using this driver would be most excellent for HT use (as well as for music).

If only it were cheaper...

 

[Koing]

Originally posted by: GINOinFL
You're going to run into problems trying to set up a "good" home theater setup for $1500, most people are recommending stuff that would send you quite a bit over your budget. I have some thoughts that you might want to consider.

You can get a pretty nice sub from www.partsexpress.com for around $150. These Dayton subs are a great value, and are highly rated. I have one and it is plenty for a small/medium room.

The total sound of a system is more dependent on the speakers that the receiver (there are many good receivers), so spend most of your money there. You shouldn't have to spend more than $500 to get a pretty nice receiver, prob $400. I got an HK AVR240 from Circuit City for $400 that I'm very pleased with. There are so many good inexpensive receivers out there that you could go crazy trying to pick out the best one.

The poster that mentioned AV123 was prob the best for speakers in your price range, IMHO. Also consider Athena speakers.

Spend more £££ on speakers as that will be the biggest impact on overall sound. You can always up the receiver later.

Koing

Koing