Home Theater Questions

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I'm getting my basement finished soon, so I'm looking for a HT setup to go along with my projector. Right now, I have an Infocus 4805 DLP projector, a modded Xbox (original) with Xbox Media Center, and an old XPS T700r that I plan to use as a media center PC and play Stepmania with. So I need to buy the following:

- 2 floorstanding speakers. Yes, I really want floorstanding because they look better. I would rather get some mediocre floorstanders than really good bookshelf speakers. Looking to spend <=$300 on these. Currently looking at JBL Northridge E60s and Klipsch SF-1s.

- Subwoofer, Dayton 10" from Partsexpress for about $130 shipped.

- Receiver. I'll need something with component, s-video, and composite in. I've decided on the Pioneer VSX-816-K for $250.

- Center. I have no idea. Something to match whatever fronts I'm getting. Probably going to spend $150 on this.

- Rears. Same with center. $150 for a pair should be enough I think.

- Projector ceiling mount

My friend works at Best Buy, so he has an employee discount. He gets everything for the price that Best Buy buys it for + 5%. Maybe I could get stuff there. I know this is an extremely small budget for a home theater setup, but I'm not an audiophile. Also, would I get better sound quality from the computer or Xbox while playing music/movies?

TIA

*EDIT*

Okay, my budget has now been raised to $1000 for a 5.1 setup. So I'll need to add in a center and rears. Individual component pricing updated.

 

[CalvinHobbes]

AVSForum
HomeTheaterSpot

 

[greytautumn]

QFT on Avsforum. I will admit that that pricerange for 2 tower speakers is a lot low. You;ll get some comments on that from some users there. It's typically a very nice place.

You'll love going FP. I did. I only watch movies and use my PS2 on it ( holding out for PS3 down there)

Too bad my PJ is 'only' 720p.

Good luck on the room and HT setup.

 

[kuba]

isn't this a computer hardware forum?

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I see plenty of other HT threads here, so I just posted one...

 

[CalvinHobbes]

Going through someone at best buy would be awesome. See how much he can get the JBL's or Athenas for although it'll probably be over your budget.
These Sony's are cheap:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp...ctCategoryId=cat03044&id=1051806317065
I have no idea how they sound.

There should plenty of receivers to choose from in your price range.

 

[Geomagick]

Originally posted by: kuba
isn't this a computer hardware forum?

It is, but I would also argue that the PC is gradually moving into the world of the living room, or in this case basement.

In answer to the original post, you would be far better off with a more PC based Sub/sat package in this price range.

Of course you won't get video switching if you went down that route.

If you really intend to stay with the setup you are aiming for I would recommend going for a pair of reasonable standmount speakers in lieu of the floor standers AND sub.
This way you will have a better system that will sound better and be easier to build on.

As for the receiver my choice would be a Denon AVR1706 at this price range.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Hmm, 1 more question:

If I have a 500W 5.1 receiver with 100W per channel, will I have enough power to power the floorstanders? On Overstock, those SDATs have a 310W RMS rating. It's probably overrated, but will 200W be enough? Can I pull power from the other channels to the front speakers? This question also applies for a 7.1 receiver. Would I be able to pull power from the side channels to the front/rear?

 

[techfuzz]

If you're going to get serious about home theater, plan in advance and budget. I was in a similar situation as you with a low budget and unsure of what to buy a couple years ago. Here's my approach to it:

First, I made a plan of what I wanted to buy and in what order. This allowed me to space out my purchases and eventually upgrade some of my future purchases.

1) I already had a Yamaha HT receiver and TV so those were my base components from which I built my system around. I also had a full set of crappy Sony HT speakers that I knew I would get rid of as I replaced specific speakers.
2) First, I decided to get some floorstanding speakers, so when Outpost.com ran their monthly deals on Polk speakers and I picked up a pair of Polk R30 floorstanding speakers which I use as my front surrounds. They also doubled as subwoofers because of their size. I recommend holding off on the sub for a while especially if you get a nice enough pair of floorstanding speakers which can substitute very well for subs. You could add the $100 you budgeted for the subwoofer into the front floorstanding speakers especially if you intend on playing a lot of stereo music with them.
3) Then a month later I got a pair of Polk R15 bookshelf speakers that I now use as rear surrounds.
4) A couple months after that I got my center channel speaker, a Polk CSi3 which I spent a little bit more on because that's where 90% of the sound in a home theater comes from.
5) Finally, about 2 months ago I finished the system by buying the subwoofer, a PSW10 which I really wanted just to piss off the neighbors.

From start to finish it took me about 14 months to piece together the entire system and I spent about $800 on speakers and wiring. I also bought a new Sony 35" HDTV along the way, but I would count that in the total or as part of my plan because I had to replace another broken TV in my house along the way.

techfuzz

 

[techfuzz]

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
Hmm, 1 more question:

If I have a 500W 5.1 receiver with 100W per channel, will I have enough power to power the floorstanders? On Overstock, those SDATs have a 310W RMS rating. It's probably overrated, but will 200W be enough? Can I pull power from the other channels to the front speakers? This question also applies for a 7.1 receiver. Would I be able to pull power from the side channels to the front/rear?

RMS ratings can be complete crap and unless the manufacturer is adhearing to the new industry standard for measuring RMS I wouldn't put a grain of salt into that number.

In summary, you're 500W 5.1 receiver will be more than sufficient to power just about any non-audiophile speaker out there. And no you usually can't divert wattage from one channel to another. If it says 100W per channel, then that's going to be your maximum.

techfuzz

 

[MrChad]

A couple of things:

1. Don't pay too much attention to wattage ratings. A 70W/channel Denon is likely going to produce better sound than a 120W/channel JVC.
2. Speaker matching is very important to overall sound quality, especially in the front channels. The ideal situation is three identical speakers for the front left, center and front right channels, but a timbre-matched center is the next best thing.
3. Given your limited budget (around $500-600 for a receiver and set of speakers), I would seriously consider going with a quality home theater in a box setup. I've heard good things about Onkyo's HTIBs. They're a great way to get you started, and you can upgrade your system gradually as time goes on.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I don't need 5.1, so a HTiB would be kinda wasteful. I also need many video inputs, since everything will be going through the receiver. Also, floorstanding speakers just look a lot nicer than puny HTiB speakers.

 

[corkyg]

This is a very personally subjective topic. Computer hardware can be involved, but not always. Anyway, each person's room and ambience is different. My advice is to sit and audition all of what you are considering and then select those that sound and look the best to you. BTW - 5.1 is really good if you have HDTV.

And, again - subjective tastes - I think the best speakers are those that you can't see - you just hear them. Good luck!

 

[Geomagick]

Did you look at the Denon , you can get it for less than 300 if you shop around.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Hmm, the AVR-1706 looks really nice, but kinda pricey. Are there any other decent receivers with about the same number of inputs around the $250 range?

 

[techfuzz]

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
Hmm, the AVR-1706 looks really nice, but kinda pricey. Are there any other decent receivers with about the same number of inputs around the $250 range?

I'm in a similar situation; I need lots of inputs, but there are hardly no receivers in the right price range. I've had to utilize the extra inputs on the back of my TV in addition to the receiver in order to hookup everything. I'll be glad when modular receivers come down in price and we can all just buy the appropriate number and type of modules we need for each of our individual systems.

It's all very subjective as someone else has mentioned, but Denon is considered to be one of the best for price vs. performance. Onkyo, Yamaha, and Sony also make quality receivers. I personally don't like Sony, but many others do probably because of their competitive pricing.

Please, whatever you do, stay away from Bose and anything with "Monster" in its name. You'll do yourself a favor and save a lot of money to boot.

techfuzz

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Be aware that the xbox can handle upscaling content to 720p/1080i it just doesn't have the grunt to display native HD content.....that said...XBMC is pretty sweet

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I have a poorly put together general audio thread in Peripherals if you want to look through it.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=30&threadid=1810562&enterthread=y

One of the best bets for an affordable sub: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-633
(Dayton 10" from Partsexpress)
How big is the room you're trying to fill (LxWxH)? Openings to other rooms?
This might not be enough sub for you, but it will certainly help out.

I was very happy with my 4805 until it started making some bad noises. I would still have it if I hadn't moved to the Panasonic AE900U after I got my refund from costco.

I like the Polk R30 suggestion for affordable floorstanders. If you search Hot Deals for "Polk", you'll get some hits on past deals.
I check practically daily to see if they're back in stock. If they are, they'll be at the top of this page http://shop2.outpost.com/search?search_...regular&sqxts=1&query_string=polk&cat=
R50s would also be in the range when they're on sale.

If you are doing Hometheater on this, which it seems you are, you might want to go 3.1 instead of 2.1

You can certainly just do stereo, but a phantom center doesn't work very well when you're not right in the sweet spot. If this is your own personal theater, then go ahead for 2.1, but if there are going to be people sitting away from the center position, a center channel will help a lot to center the sounds. Something like 70% of the sound from your average DVD is in the center track.

You might want to consider switching your speakers / receiver budget. I think you'll have a better system in the end if you get a less expensive receiver and spend more on your speakers. I went from a $287 BB floor model receiver to $1500 on clearance Boston Acoustics Separates and the difference was nowhere near the difference going from a $400 5.1 speaker system to a $2700 5.1 speaker system. Speakers is where you should put the bulk of your money to get the most out of the system as a whole.

S-Video is getting harder to find on receivers now. Some entry level receivers even have three component inputs now (Onkyo 304 for example)

If you only have one s-video source, you could even route that one straight to the 4805 and get a receiver without that feature.

For something affordable with all the inputs you want, Onkyo has some good deals on refurbs.
http://www.shoponkyo.com/detail.cfm?pro...delid=51&group_id=1&detail=1&ext_war=1

If you can get a good deal at BB though, that would definately be worth a shot. There's not going to be a whole lot of difference between a $150 receiver and a $300 receiver if your speakers are total crap.

Please get some better speakers if you can, it will be well worth it.

 

[corkyg]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Please get some better speakers if you can, it will be well worth it.

Amen! The speakers are the last thing that happens to sound before it meets the ear.They are the crown jewels of any audio system.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

Is the Pioneer VSX-816-K good? It seem to have everything I need. It's $300 retail at Best Buy, but my friend can use his employee discount. It goes for about $260 shipped online.

Also, what kind of resolution would I be able to get with my computer if I use a VGA -> S-Video adapter? My projector's native resolution is 480p, but it can go up to 1024x768. I want all my inputs to go through the receiver so I can switch between them easily.

As for the speakers, I think I'll get a center channel as well as 2 floorstanders. I'm still stuck on the CAT SDATs until I can find something that's a better value though.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: t3h l337 n3wb
Is the Pioneer VSX-816-K good? It seem to have everything I need. It's $300 retail at Best Buy, but my friend can use his employee discount. It goes for about $260 shipped online.

Also, what kind of resolution would I be able to get with my computer if I use a VGA -> S-Video adapter? My projector's native resolution is 480p, but it can go up to 1024x768. I want all my inputs to go through the receiver so I can switch between them easily.

As for the speakers, I think I'll get a center channel as well as 2 floorstanders. I'm still stuck on the CAT SDATs until I can find something that's a better value though.

The Pioneer should fit your needs.

S-video is going to give you 480i. I temporarily used s-video output from a radeon 9800pro to my 4805 and it looked like trash. Use component or DVI to M1 if at all possible. You're not even going to be able to get widescreen to look right with an s-video input.

You'll want to match the front three speakers to get a unified sound. Pans from Left to Right will sound really strange if you have unmatched speakers.

I've never heard those CAT SDATs before, but I would put money on them sounding like crap. Anything will probably sound good on its own though so you might not even care. You just don't know what you're missing until you do a comparison to something else. If you consider how much it costs to physically make the cabinet for those, and that they're making a profit, and that they have it's a three way design, you can kind of guess the quality of the individual components they're using.

I guess this is kind of equivalent to someone wanting to get a rig for gaming and going with a $260 processor and an $80 videocard. The videocard is going to be where you want to spend the money to get the best balance of performance in the end. I don't know if saying that was pointless or not, but it's kind of the same thing. The speakers are going to be the limiting factor for performance of your system here, so you would be best served by spending more on them.

If you want to try this out for yourself, go into a store that sells speakers and bring in some material that you like. Listen to some different speakers and different electronics at some different pricepoints and hear what sounds good to you / what kind of priority you want to put on this.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

So a VGA -> Component cable will let me use 1024x768 correctly? Also, this Ecoustics thread says the SDATs are pretty good for the price:

Link

I don't think there are any other decent floorstanders in my price range.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

You can't go straight from a standard VGA output to Component with a simple cable. There are some exceptions (Like Radeon 8500) that can be configured to have a component signal output through the VGA output, but the only reason an adapter works for that is the signal is not a standard VGA signal at that point.

You probably don't want to use 1024x768 either. 480p or 720p will look better and actually fill your screen.

I didn't read these, but other sources for you:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=648942&highlight=sdat
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668947&highlight=sdat

I dunno... these seem to be appealing to people who have no idea what to look for.
A ton of drivers, a rediculous power handling rating, bad impedence / sensitivity, and stating 20-20kHz frequency response are all signs that this SDATs are really crappy.

But I've never heard them, so what do I know? Go ahead.

EDIT: See if your friend has any floorstanders at BB close to your range. BB used to carry Athena, JBL northridge series, etc.
I honestly don't know what might be able to fit in your range with the discount, but it would be worth a shot. As a huge bonus, you might be able to actually hear them before you decide to get them.

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

I checked Best Buy's online list, and the cheapest ones they had were Athenas for $300 a pair I think... I'll check in-store anyways though, since they have the Pioneer VSX-816-K receiver as well as some centers/subs I want to look at.

 

[zephyrprime]

You can go from vga to component with a regular vga card and I know because I have done it before. They have the same singaling except vga has sync separated from color.

op: I've listened to the sony speakers before and they're actually pretty good altough I can't claim to have a trained ear and the listening environment was crap. If you can really buy at cost, those speakers are probably only half the retail price so that would be about $75. I'd definitely go with those rather than those CAT speakers which look very dubious to me. Why don't they list the sensitivity of these speakers? And how could the power handling be so high?

Also, why not go with a 5.1 setup with your home theater? You're missing out if you go with anything less.