Homosexuality

[bluemax]

Reading this thread reminds me of when I was about 17-20 and thought I had alllll the answers. Knew it all. I was right and noone could tell me otherwise. Science explained it all, and everything I was taught in skool and TV was all true.

As it goes, the old adage is true, "The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know."

After putting more research into it, it seems science does NOT have all the answers and archaeologists keep finding out more about the days of ancient (early) Rome when Jesus was oot and aboot. Non-biblical historic references to the living Christ, the dead-sea scrolls found over 1900 years after the later portions of the Bible were created which translated perfectly to reveal the Bible has NOT been altered/messed with... scientists are even giving up on the Theory of Evolution because there's too many holes, questions and uncertainties. (Now, many are thinking we were "seeded" from a superior alien race somewhere...") And if man has been around for BILLIONS of years, WHERE are all the @#$^ bones?? That many humans over that much time, you wouldn't be able to dig a hole in your front yard without bringing up human remains. And why do you think they call it "the missing link"? We haven't found a single complete skeleton from any of the evolutionary steps, except the first (which is an actual monkey) and the second-to-last (which is exactly the same as modern man with a touch of arthritis). The rest were built from tiny, fraudulent fragments - like a tiny piece of skull cap (certainly far from a complete skull) and a single tooth (found later to be a PIG's tooth!)

So who to believe? Scientists with their own agena? Certain "religious" groups (including a few real biggies that span the globe) that decided they have it all down and can change anything they darn well like (right down to the seventh day, known as "sabbath" or "saboath" as well as the ten commandments! Would you believe one biggie even changed those around??)

So, you can't trust anyone, right? And you don't like the idea of being restrained in any way. Like a full-grown 6-year-old, most of us don't like the idea of NOT being told to do something we want to do - even if it's for our own good.
We WANT to watch blood & guts on movies.
We LIKE pornography and easy sex.
We PREFER to get stuff the easy way rather than bust our butts for it.
We CRAVE tasty food loaded with fat, salt, chemicals and other agents of quick screaming anurism death.
Whaddaya mean I can't have it! I WANT IT IwannitIwannitIwannit! WHAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa!!! I'm not listening to you and I'm gonna' do it anyway!

You might have guessed there are consequences to our behavior. A slow (or not-so-slow) degradation of society as a whole. The last 100 years have been explosive... sure medical technology has given us longer lifespans, that's a good thing because we also live poorer lives and will more likely NEED that technology. We also have GPS systems to lock on our kids' wrists so we'll know where they are in case they get abducted. People never used to worry about locking their doors, then they locked them, then they got security systems, guards and guns - in the home, not just banks!
Compare the TV shows and movies in the last 50 years... you'll see more violence, sex, filth, bad language and more as time goes by - and the trend WILL continue. More and more crime is happening, from petty thievery to rape to murder.

And here in the middle of this "enlightened" age.... more and more people are standing up and saying, "I don't believe in any 'God'. I'm too smart for that." Those who realize they need "something" more in their lives (and likely don't know WHAT) try to fill it with anything that pleases them for a moment. Sex, booze, drugs, computer games, movies... anything. Makes you happy for a moment, but still leaves you longing for more afterwards because the void is still there.
Those who think spirituality will help are easily hoodwinked by weird modern "new age" stuff like "scientology" and "the god within you" or religions and cults that believe they have it all down pat - "just do what WE do and you'll be okey-dokey!" - and then do all sorts of weird non-Biblical stuff like dancing, chanting, channeling "spirits"...ghosts, fairies and witchcraft, even.

I've seen far too much evidence from all sides to deny my position. I din't choose blindly... "religion" was one of those things I rebelled against like many of you "enlightened" folks are doing now. I know more information now - from ALL sides; history, science, archaeology, Christians, non-christian "religious" people, wiccans, even satanists. I've even been at the receiving end of miracles - more than one, and more obvious than childbirth. I've simply seen too much to every possibly deny the existance of our Creator. Even so - it's our nature to rebel, to do our own thing... and anything we don't "sense" (touch/see/hear...) easily and often is all-too-easily forgotten and dismissed.

It's so strange to see a dying man beg a Christian man to pray for him, and as soon as that man is healed goes RIGHT back to denying God. But, hey, this is war... disbelief is the other side's most potent weapon. his second-best is having you think you're "saved" when you're not.


Okay... this has strayed a liitle bit from homosexuality, but we've looked at the root of the whole problem - rebellion. In this case, it's people who prefer their own gender to the opposite which was DESIGNED for them. And let's face it... this really does boil down to right-vs-wrong and are defined by God's laws were more than fair and definately in our best interests.

Most of you are freaking out because God spelled out that homosexuality is wrong. After much spitting and cursing and denying God, about the only reason I can get out of the nay-sayers is that ANYBODY saying something is flat-out wrong is a bigot and we should be accepting of everybody, no matter how degraded they are.

Guess what? Even Jesus said, "love your enemies". If you didn't have any love or respect for someone, you'd let them go about their self-destructive behaviour. You would try to stop your loved ones from hurting themselves wouldn't you?
If your sister was married to a wife-beater (and you knew it) you would DO something, right?
If your wife/husband was on the verge of suicide, you'd DO something... right?
If your child was getting into trouble, you'd correct him.... wouldn't you?
If you cared enough.... you'd do something.

Which is what this is really all about.
Homosexuality is wrong. Flat out. It would be a GOOD person's responsibility (if they knew the person) to condemn the act, while still being able to befriend the person. You might have heard the trite phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner". You should be a friend enough to help the person out of their self-destructive behaviour. To correct, corretly.

Okay... I think I've typed enough for a while. Time to warm up my fingers... it's cold in here.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: bluemax
Reading this thread reminds me of when I was about 17-20 and thought I had alllll the answers. Knew it all. I was right and noone could tell me otherwise. Science explained it all, and everything I was taught in skool and TV was all true.

As it goes, the old adage is true, "The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know."

After putting more research into it, it seems science does NOT have all the answers and archaeologists keep finding out more about the days of ancient (early) Rome when Jesus was oot and aboot. Non-biblical historic references to the living Christ, the dead-sea scrolls found over 1900 years after the later portions of the Bible were created which translated perfectly to reveal the Bible has NOT been altered/messed with... scientists are even giving up on the Theory of Evolution because there's too many holes, questions and uncertainties. (Now, many are thinking we were "seeded" from a superior alien race somewhere...") And if man has been around for BILLIONS of years, WHERE are all the @#$^ bones?? That many humans over that much time, you wouldn't be able to dig a hole in your front yard without bringing up human remains. And why do you think they call it "the missing link"? We haven't found a single complete skeleton from any of the evolutionary steps, except the first (which is an actual monkey) and the second-to-last (which is exactly the same as modern man with a touch of arthritis). The rest were built from tiny, fraudulent fragments - like a tiny piece of skull cap (certainly far from a complete skull) and a single tooth (found later to be a PIG's tooth!)

So who to believe? Scientists with their own agena? Certain "religious" groups (including a few real biggies that span the globe) that decided they have it all down and can change anything they darn well like (right down to the seventh day, known as "sabbath" or "saboath" as well as the ten commandments! Would you believe one biggie even changed those around??)

So, you can't trust anyone, right? And you don't like the idea of being restrained in any way. Like a full-grown 6-year-old, most of us don't like the idea of NOT being told to do something we want to do - even if it's for our own good.
We WANT to watch blood & guts on movies.
We LIKE pornography and easy sex.
We PREFER to get stuff the easy way rather than bust our butts for it.
We CRAVE tasty food loaded with fat, salt, chemicals and other agents of quick screaming anurism death.
Whaddaya mean I can't have it! I WANT IT IwannitIwannitIwannit! WHAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa!!! I'm not listening to you and I'm gonna' do it anyway!

You might have guessed there are consequences to our behavior. A slow (or not-so-slow) degradation of society as a whole. The last 100 years have been explosive... sure medical technology has given us longer lifespans, that's a good thing because we also live poorer lives and will more likely NEED that technology. We also have GPS systems to lock on our kids' wrists so we'll know where they are in case they get abducted. People never used to worry about locking their doors, then they locked them, then they got security systems, guards and guns - in the home, not just banks!
Compare the TV shows and movies in the last 50 years... you'll see more violence, sex, filth, bad language and more as time goes by - and the trend WILL continue. More and more crime is happening, from petty thievery to rape to murder.

And here in the middle of this "enlightened" age.... more and more people are standing up and saying, "I don't believe in any 'God'. I'm too smart for that." Those who realize they need "something" more in their lives (and likely don't know WHAT) try to fill it with anything that pleases them for a moment. Sex, booze, drugs, computer games, movies... anything. Makes you happy for a moment, but still leaves you longing for more afterwards because the void is still there.
Those who think spirituality will help are easily hoodwinked by weird modern "new age" stuff like "scientology" and "the god within you" or religions and cults that believe they have it all down pat - "just do what WE do and you'll be okey-dokey!" - and then do all sorts of weird non-Biblical stuff like dancing, chanting, channeling "spirits"...ghosts, fairies and witchcraft, even.

I've seen far too much evidence from all sides to deny my position. I din't choose blindly... "religion" was one of those things I rebelled against like many of you "enlightened" folks are doing now. I know more information now - from ALL sides; history, science, archaeology, Christians, non-christian "religious" people, wiccans, even satanists. I've even been at the receiving end of miracles - more than one, and more obvious than childbirth. I've simply seen too much to every possibly deny the existance of our Creator. Even so - it's our nature to rebel, to do our own thing... and anything we don't "sense" (touch/see/hear...) easily and often is all-too-easily forgotten and dismissed.

It's so strange to see a dying man beg a Christian man to pray for him, and as soon as that man is healed goes RIGHT back to denying God. But, hey, this is war... disbelief is the other side's most potent weapon. his second-best is having you think you're "saved" when you're not.


Okay... this has strayed a liitle bit from homosexuality, but we've looked at the root of the whole problem - rebellion. In this case, it's people who prefer their own gender to the opposite which was DESIGNED for them. And let's face it... this really does boil down to right-vs-wrong and are defined by God's laws were more than fair and definately in our best interests.

Most of you are freaking out because God spelled out that homosexuality is wrong. After much spitting and cursing and denying God, about the only reason I can get out of the nay-sayers is that ANYBODY saying something is flat-out wrong is a bigot and we should be accepting of everybody, no matter how degraded they are.

Guess what? Even Jesus said, "love your enemies". If you didn't have any love or respect for someone, you'd let them go about their self-destructive behaviour. You would try to stop your loved ones from hurting themselves wouldn't you?
If your sister was married to a wife-beater (and you knew it) you would DO something, right?
If your wife/husband was on the verge of suicide, you'd DO something... right?
If your child was getting into trouble, you'd correct him.... wouldn't you?
If you cared enough.... you'd do something.

Which is what this is really all about.
Homosexuality is wrong. Flat out. It would be a GOOD person's responsibility (if they knew the person) to condemn the act, while still being able to befriend the person. You might have heard the trite phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner". You should be a friend enough to help the person out of their self-destructive behaviour. To correct, corretly.

Okay... I think I've typed enough for a while. Time to warm up my fingers... it's cold in here.

scientists have not given up on evolution, that is ludicrous. Who the heck argued that man has been around BILLIONS of years? i have never heard that, the contemporary belief is that man has been around maybe millions of years. Degradation of society? give me a break, have you studied how people lived in the past? More crime? there was a time when it was pretty much acceptable to go around senselessly killing people, just ask some native americans, thank goodness we have progressed from then. more and more people denouncing god eh, well so what, religion has caused as many deaths, wars, and destruction as anything else. Your view that homosexuality is "wrong" is based on a book, how can you definatively deduce that this is the word of God? you cannot, therefore you can not be certain, to claim so is also ludicrous.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: LadyJessica

What's wrong is wrong, whether or not we are aware of it, whether we ignore it, whether we pretend it's okay and acceptable, whether or not it was done once or a thousand times, or whether we have the mental faculties to know something is wrong or not.

Things are considered "wrong" only because we exist as "intelligent" entities to interpret them that way. Is there anything wrong with a volcano erupting? Is there anything wrong with an animal eating another animal? Or how about one animal killing another animal just because it exists? How about just killing on the face of it?

If we KNOW it's wrong and choose to do so anyways, it's worse than if noone has EVER told you it was wrong. How much worse? Does it matter? Is this question only asked with one purpose behind it? To discredit God's law so you can choose to ignore it with a clean conscience?

Again, we only know things are wrong because other people tell us that such things are wrong. Why do we wear clothing? Because other people tell us that we must wear clothing or else. Why is sex before marriage "wrong"? Because other people say it is. There is no real fundamental reason why one should precede the other.

It's been spelled out pretty clearly what is best for us as a race - but leave it to us to either ignore the rules completely, or just bend them around any which way we want. End result? Just like the very beginning, we want to do anything we darn well please and don't want any limitations, even if they ARE for our own good.

Oh really? Like what? Not eating seafood? Owning slaves?

We know that certain things are wrong not from "people" telling us, but by God telling us (you know that omnipotent guy that kind of created everything in existence just by speaking). I choose to listen to him.

where you fall is that there is absolutely no way of knowing that anything written or told to you by a human is the word of god, but somehow you actually believe there is? Does god speek to you directly, I highly doubt it. What if those guys who wrote the bible decided homosexuality was good, i am led to believe you would also believe it is good. The bible dates the earth to a few thousand years, do you believe that? That is "the word of god" in your mind, so you must believe it correct?

 

[Moonbeam]

bluemax, aside from all the errors TheShiz pointed out in your assumptions, I also object to your understanding and limitation on the notions of rebellion. You seem to think that the mind seeks no chains so it can sin. I see those chains as a form of sin, limitations in thinking, mind control, ignorance, and evil. You imply that once you knew and now you nkow you don't know you know less. How about knowing you know nothing. What is the mind that has rejected knowing, certainty, belief? What is left of a human who has surrendered all attachment all isms all notions all hope? What is the human who has died to thought? What is the man from which has been subtracted all that can be subtracted but what he really is? What if Christianity is an addition that is supposed to lead to subtraction and you have become attached to the addition and have not done the subtraction? Religion is a bridge to reality. Of what use is a bridge to the traveler who has crossed? Religion is a bridge that man in his mechanicality has turned into a cage.

What is the trap in which every thought is the cage?

 

[bluemax]

I don't think replying would have much effect. Nor have I made simple assumptions. Nor are they in error.
And your last post didn't make a whole lot of sense....

 

[iwearnosox]

I'll have some of what moonbeam's having, please.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nor have I made simple assumptions. Nor are they in error.
----------------
Yes, well, of course not:
--------------
"Reading this thread reminds me of when I was about 17-20 and thought I had alllll the answers. Knew it all. I was right and noone could tell me otherwise."
---------
And you haven't changed.

 

[Greg03]

Being a nonbeliever, I wondering about the "Christians" in this board

Are most of you the

1. Pick and choose what we want to believe Catholic (even if contradicts the Church and makes us non-Catholic) Christians
2. Racist who needs an excuse to hate Christians
3. Really Really Christian (Good meaning foks who know the rest of you are going to hell)
4. Old Testament / New Testament Christians
5. New Testament Christians
6. Old Testament Christians
7. Baptists

or other? What kinda church do you go to?

 

[Greg03]

>>>"Reading this thread reminds me of when I was about 17-20 and thought I had alllll the answers. Knew it all. I was right and noone could tell me otherwise."


21 is a brand new day no?



J/K keep up your sense of humor.

 

[JMaster]

Actually, the devil never asked/told us to do anything. He simply said "do whatever you want."

 

[Moonbeam]

That's right, JMaster. The trick is knowing that what you really want is the will of God.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: bluemax
I don't think replying would have much effect. Nor have I made simple assumptions. Nor are they in error.
And your last post didn't make a whole lot of sense....

First of all BlueMax, I would like to thank you for coming to my rescue. For a second there I almost thought about giving up.

Secondly, don't worry about MoonBeam's posts, they never make any sense. All he does is ask a bunch of random questions that are worded poorly and then expects us to answer them. Then when we do, he gets mad that we are right and he calls us Bigots. He has been doing it for the last 7 pages of this thread, so just try to ignore him.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: bluemax
I don't think replying would have much effect. Nor have I made simple assumptions. Nor are they in error.
And your last post didn't make a whole lot of sense....

you stated that people say humans have been around for BILLIONS of years, either you are:

1) gravely misinformed
2) do not know the difference between BILLIONS and MILLIONS

and anyway you say you have gone to great lengths to learn about these things and you make such an absurd mistake, I really think you should pay more attention to what you read if this is the case.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: Greg03
Being a nonbeliever, I wondering about the "Christians" in this board

Are most of you the

1. Pick and choose what we want to believe Catholic (even if contradicts the Church and makes us non-Catholic) Christians
2. Racist who needs an excuse to hate Christians
3. Really Really Christian (Good meaning foks who know the rest of you are going to hell)
4. Old Testament / New Testament Christians
5. New Testament Christians
6. Old Testament Christians
7. Baptists

or other? What kinda church do you go to?

I go to a Nazareene church. I believe all of the New Testament, and some of the Old Testament. The only parts of the Old Testament that I disregard are the parts that Jesus told us to throw away in the New Testament.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
My point is anyone that's not a christian doesn't need to be "saved."

And as far as the original question of this thread, given the choices, I would have to say it's a biological mutation that has survived. Doesn't really do any good, doesn't really do any harm--not unlike the appendix.

So on the judgement day, God is going to look at you and say
"You don't believe in any of that crap anyways, so you don't need me. You are perfect just as you are. Come on in."

God probably won't say crap, but you get my point.

Here's the thing; when the person you're saying that to has no belief in your religious structure, it only means something to you. I hope it makes you feel better to think bad things will happen to me when I die.

Don't know why you are smiling, but no, it won't make me happy when you are suffering. If I wanted you to go to Hell, I wouldn't waste my time in this thread.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: Metalloid15
TheShiz: I am not the person to ask. I think you know what I mean.

nice cop out.

Think about what you were asking. Why did GOD create them......? God created them not me. I have already told you that I don't know all of God's reasonings. Give me a break, I am not some prophet, I am just someone who knows a little bit more about the Bible than some other people.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
And I condemn no one. Salvation is open for anyone who accepts it. Don't blame me because people go to Hell, it is their own fault.
-------------------------------
What a terrible thing to say to beautiful children born perfect in the world. You're going to hell and it's your fault. No no no. It's your fault you say terrible things like that. It's a nasty mean vindictive way of looking at life. The only way I could sleep at night, if I thought like that, is if I thought I was saved. Then of course I could sleep in the bliss of ignorant indifference. I got mine. Too bad about you. Sounds like hell to me.

how weak is our omnipotent god to require our faith in it, that right there shows that either god is not omnipotent, or christians are wrong, lol. so either way christians are wrong.

As I explained a few pages back, God does not need us to believe in him. He could move us around like perfect little sinless puppets that worship him constantly if he wanted to. But God wanted us to love him on our own. He wanted us to follow him because we love him, not because he forces us to.

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: bluemax
I don't think replying would have much effect. Nor have I made simple assumptions. Nor are they in error.
And your last post didn't make a whole lot of sense....

you stated that people say humans have been around for BILLIONS of years, either you are:

1) gravely misinformed
2) do not know the difference between BILLIONS and MILLIONS

and anyway you say you have gone to great lengths to learn about these things and you make such an absurd mistake, I really think you should pay more attention to what you read if this is the case.

The world (according to science) has been around for Billions of years, and humans have been around for millions. I think BlueMax was confusing the two.

I find this funny though, because in the second chapter for Genesis, the first book of the Bible, God says that right after he created the earth (which took him 6 days and then he rested for 1 day) he made man. Either science is wrong, or God's watch was off by a couple million years.

 

[GasX]

So if I have read this thread correctly. Satan is gay. But he is gay in a really HOT kind of way. So hot, in fact, that he is tempting men to reject their natural tendencies and get hit in the seat.

I am not sure I buy that....

 

[0roo0roo]

lol yea, i mean seriously if mr satan were to tempt me he wouldn't be in the guise of a hot guy trying to "turn" me haha

some of us aren't homo tempted the most homotempted are homophobes, for obvious reasons.

 

[Metalloid]

Although I can detect some sarchasm present in the previous two statements, I will reply as if they were normal questions.

Satan doesn't tempt all people in homosexual ways. He temps straight people also. For example, pre-marital sex is a sin, so satan temps you that way. Satan tempts everyone in different ways, because everyone has their weaknesses.

 

[LadyJessica]

Nice post. Let's discusses it in pieces.

Reading this thread reminds me of when I was about 17-20 and thought I had alllll the answers. Knew it all. I was right and noone could tell me otherwise. Science explained it all, and everything I was taught in skool and TV was all true.

I was always taught that this is how we know things to be right now and that what we know to be "true" today may not be true in the next 10 years. This was the theme throughout my science classes.


[/quote]
As it goes, the old adage is true, "The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know."

After putting more research into it, it seems science does NOT have all the answers and archaeologists keep finding out more about the days of ancient (early) Rome when Jesus was oot and aboot. Non-biblical historic references to the living Christ, the dead-sea scrolls found over 1900 years after the later portions of the Bible were created which translated perfectly to reveal the Bible has NOT been altered/messed with... scientists are even giving up on the Theory of Evolution because there's too many holes, questions and uncertainties. (Now, many are thinking we were "seeded" from a superior alien race somewhere...") And if man has been around for BILLIONS of years, WHERE are all the @#$^ bones?? That many humans over that much time, you wouldn't be able to dig a hole in your front yard without bringing up human remains. And why do you think they call it "the missing link"? We haven't found a single complete skeleton from any of the evolutionary steps, except the first (which is an actual monkey) and the second-to-last (which is exactly the same as modern man with a touch of arthritis). The rest were built from tiny, fraudulent fragments - like a tiny piece of skull cap (certainly far from a complete skull) and a single tooth (found later to be a PIG's tooth!)
[/quote]

Who exactly is giving up on evolution? That seems to more of an opnion on your part. There are many ways that evolution could have happened. The evolution can occur in violent shifts or gradually. The current thinking is that a major shift occurred with the evolution of humans. But I digress.


There're so many things wrong with the following. But, to be brief:

So who to believe? Scientists with their own agena? Certain "religious" groups (including a few real biggies that span the globe) that decided they have it all down and can change anything they darn well like (right down to the seventh day, known as "sabbath" or "saboath" as well as the ten commandments! Would you believe one biggie even changed those around??)

So, you can't trust anyone, right? And you don't like the idea of being restrained in any way. Like a full-grown 6-year-old, most of us don't like the idea of NOT being told to do something we want to do - even if it's for our own good.
We WANT to watch blood & guts on movies.
We LIKE pornography and easy sex.
We PREFER to get stuff the easy way rather than bust our butts for it.
We CRAVE tasty food loaded with fat, salt, chemicals and other agents of quick screaming anurism death.
Whaddaya mean I can't have it! I WANT IT IwannitIwannitIwannit! WHAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaa!!! I'm not listening to you and I'm gonna' do it anyway!

Most people (including children) know the difference between 'pretend' violence and 'real' violence. A high majority of people people do not like 'real' violence.

There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography. The reason it exists is because our society has such a prudish attitudte about sex and sexuality. If we all walked around naked, the porn that we'd have would include fully clothed people.

Anyone would like to get stuff for free. However, almost everyone also derives satisfaction from getting results from work. People like feeling productive.

You might have guessed there are consequences to our behavior. A slow (or not-so-slow) degradation of society as a whole. The last 100 years have been explosive... sure medical technology has given us longer lifespans, that's a good thing because we also live poorer lives and will more likely NEED that technology. We also have GPS systems to lock on our kids' wrists so we'll know where they are in case they get abducted. People never used to worry about locking their doors, then they locked them, then they got security systems, guards and guns - in the home, not just banks!
Compare the TV shows and movies in the last 50 years... you'll see more violence, sex, filth, bad language and more as time goes by - and the trend WILL continue. More and more crime is happening, from petty thievery to rape to murder.

Why do people think that life in the past was better? Personally, I would prefer not to work in a field all day picking cotton. I would prefer to have dental work with some anesthesia. I like having news at my fingertips instead of having to wait days (eg news of Lincoln's assassination didn't reach Europe for at least a week). I like have clean water, vaccinations, anti-biotics, and recombinant DNA technology.

Let's face it: crime will not go away. However, despite an increasing population, data show that our crime rate is decreasing. [/quote]

And here in the middle of this "enlightened" age.... more and more people are standing up and saying, "I don't believe in any 'God'. I'm too smart for that." Those who realize they need "something" more in their lives (and likely don't know WHAT) try to fill it with anything that pleases them for a moment. Sex, booze, drugs, computer games, movies... anything. Makes you happy for a moment, but still leaves you longing for more afterwards because the void is still there.
Those who think spirituality will help are easily hoodwinked by weird modern "new age" stuff like "scientology" and "the god within you" or religions and cults that believe they have it all down pat - "just do what WE do and you'll be okey-dokey!" - and then do all sorts of weird non-Biblical stuff like dancing, chanting, channeling "spirits"...ghosts, fairies and witchcraft, even.

If I'm not mistaken, all religions embody, in your words, the "just do what WE do and you'll be okey-dokey!" mentality.

I've seen far too much evidence from all sides to deny my position. I din't choose blindly... "religion" was one of those things I rebelled against like many of you "enlightened" folks are doing now. I know more information now - from ALL sides; history, science, archaeology, Christians, non-christian "religious" people, wiccans, even satanists. I've even been at the receiving end of miracles - more than one, and more obvious than childbirth. I've simply seen too much to every possibly deny the existance of our Creator. Even so - it's our nature to rebel, to do our own thing... and anything we don't "sense" (touch/see/hear...) easily and often is all-too-easily forgotten and dismissed.

I highly doubt that you gave Islam, Jeudaism, Buddhism, or Hinduism a thorough evaluation before you chose to become Christian. And I seriously doubt that you came into contact with real satanists.

It's so strange to see a dying man beg a Christian man to pray for him, and as soon as that man is healed goes RIGHT back to denying God. But, hey, this is war... disbelief is the other side's most potent weapon. his second-best is having you think you're "saved" when you're not.

Where'd this come from?

Okay... this has strayed a liitle bit from homosexuality, but we've looked at the root of the whole problem - rebellion. In this case, it's people who prefer their own gender to the opposite which was DESIGNED for them. And let's face it... this really does boil down to right-vs-wrong and are defined by God's laws were more than fair and definately in our best interests.

Designed? People with schizophrenia were designed that way? People with Tourette's syndrome were designed that way? How about testicular feminization? How about women born with androgen receptor defects? Such people were "designed" to be male since they have an XY karyotype. Yet they look entirely female. I don't see how these things have any right or wrong to them.

Most of you are freaking out because God spelled out that homosexuality is wrong. After much spitting and cursing and denying God, about the only reason I can get out of the nay-sayers is that ANYBODY saying something is flat-out wrong is a bigot and we should be accepting of everybody, no matter how degraded they are.

Guess what? Even Jesus said, "love your enemies". If you didn't have any love or respect for someone, you'd let them go about their self-destructive behaviour. You would try to stop your loved ones from hurting themselves wouldn't you?
If your sister was married to a wife-beater (and you knew it) you would DO something, right?
If your wife/husband was on the verge of suicide, you'd DO something... right?
If your child was getting into trouble, you'd correct him.... wouldn't you?
If you cared enough.... you'd do something.

The problem with your examples is that there is actual potential physical or psychological harm in each situation. Is there any if someone is just homosexual? Not anymore than a heterosexual.

Which is what this is really all about.
Homosexuality is wrong. Flat out. It would be a GOOD person's responsibility (if they knew the person) to condemn the act, while still being able to befriend the person. You might have heard the trite phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner". You should be a friend enough to help the person out of their self-destructive behaviour. To correct, corretly.

Okay... I think I've typed enough for a while. Time to warm up my fingers... it's cold in here.

Ok, you could help out the person, but you don't have to be an ass about it. You could help by being empathetic. Try being in their shoes. It's like telling someone with severe depression to snap out of it. It's like telling someone with Tourette's to stop twitching and cursing. But please tell me how homosexual sex is self-destructive? How is it any more destructive than regular sex. If we go by the strict definition of sex as "a penis penetrating a vagina," what gay people do isn't even sex.

 

[Moonbeam]

My dear Mettaloid, I'm sorry thi things I say disturb you. I'm only tryint to save you from the inner hell and outer hell your form of thinking creates in the world. I understand fully how comfortable it is to be one of a small number of the saved and I appreciate your effort to save me. It's just that I don't want to be saved by a system that's an exclusive culb reserved for only a select few who think a particular way. I want to save everybody. I like the Buddhists in that way. The Zen master says that "Everybody is enlightened." Naturally they have their own form of dues you have to pay. They add, "It would be nice to know it." But at least they say everybody, not just straights.

Now a big difference between you and me is that you are telling me the facts and I'm asking you questions. I ask them so you can see only if you want to. I ask so you can work some things out if you really were interested or walk away completely undisturbed if you do not.

The thing I don't like about dogmatic Christianity is that the few who can tolerate the bs you have to swallow to feel accepted drives away more than enter. That's my opinion, anyway. Your brand of religion causes outrage and hostility. Too much of a price for me. Religion is a bridge to reality, it's not a private toll bridge for a few with a big 'screw the rest of you' written across the entrance.

 

[LunarRay]

I believe that Jesus is God and through him I will enter heaven when the time comes... That is where it begins and where it ends with me... I don't listen to the Catholic church, the Fallwell's or The local preacher or anyone.. My relationship is direct and personal and it is with God himself. I believe the value of deeds to be nil as a currency to heaven.
How or if you choose to believe in God is fine with me and I'd not say a harsh word against it... except to say that belief without conviction is not belief.. so why bother... perhaps to cover your bases... insurance... I don't know more than what I am convinced of and that is no person I've ever met merits heaven based on the goodness of their heart.... We are too human... all of us....

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: bluemax
Which is what this is really all about.
Homosexuality is wrong. Flat out. It would be a GOOD person's responsibility (if they knew the person) to condemn the act, while still being able to befriend the person. You might have heard the trite phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner". You should be a friend enough to help the person out of their self-destructive behaviour. To correct, corretly.

Wrong? Flat out? Based on what?
In what way is it self-destructive? Have you heard of some mysterious rash of homosexuals spontaneously combusting?