Homosexuality

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: HJD1
Quote by Metalloid 15

My goal in life is not to stay out of Hell. I mean, sure, I fear Hell, just as everyone should. But Hell is not what drives me. I strive to please God because he is my friend. If you think that my entire goal in life is to avoid Hell, then I am sorry, you are mistaken.

This is good... John 3:16... I have read now for, I don't know.... about 4000 posts in this thread about religion and God... and Jesus but, not a word about the Spirit... the third part of the Trinity that exists here on earth and in our hearts... The absence of God in our hearts (or whatever you wish to call it) would seem to be hell... and the presence of God (the Holy Spirit) gives us the warmth and knowledge and surplants fear and coldness with certainty. At least for me.
Without this I'd probably feel as Moombeam describes... but, me I'm full in the knowledge that someday I'll be with Jesus among the good, the bad, and the ugly who also accepted Jesus as their Personal Savior... The Homo too will be there if his or her heart is as mine is.... Perhaps you disagree with me... that is ok but, never expect me to accept less than I have already... Eternal Life...

I agree almost completely. The only thing I don't agree with is that fact that homosexuals could have the same heart as you. If someone was truely a Christian, they would not be homosexual. Now if they were homosexual in the past but changed their ways and became a Christian, than that would make sense. But no true Christian is a homosexual.

I find it ridiculous that you feel you can say that. You have admitted that you sin, how can you say that being a homosexual is worse than the things you have done? you cannot, maybe being a homosexual isn't as bad as all that masturbation you admitted to and the homosexual shall get entrance to heaven while you burn? ever think about that?

I admit that there are no sins greater than others. So, because I know that things that I do are sin, I try to correct them. I have never met a homosexual that is actively trying to stop having sex with other men.

So are you saying that if you shoplift a candybar, you're just as bad as a serial murderer?

Please define "bad." If you are unforgivin for stealing that candy bar, just like that other person is unforgivin for murdering, then yes, you are both going to Hell.

Rofl. This "hell" must be pretty full! I can't believe "god" would send people to hell for taking a candy bar. What if they're starving and they have no money and they must eat? Do they still go to hell for doing that?

Ever heard of getting a job? Soup kitchens?

Um, what if this is during a depression with unemployment everywhere and the homeless bum with no residency and a bad smell can't get a job? Quit avoiding the question.[/quote]

If it doesn't belong to you and you take it, no matter what the circumstances, it is wrong. My answer would be yes. I doubt that God would think differently, but I'm not God, so I don't know.

Let me ask you this: How many people in this world go their entire life without sinning even once, and then end up going to Hell because they stole one candy bar because they had no food? I can answer for you, not a single person. So whether it was ok to steal that candy bar or not, you would still need Jesus to save you from your other sins.

 

[Jmmsbnd007]

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: Jmmsbnd007

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: Metalloid15

Originally posted by: HJD1
Quote by Metalloid 15

My goal in life is not to stay out of Hell. I mean, sure, I fear Hell, just as everyone should. But Hell is not what drives me. I strive to please God because he is my friend. If you think that my entire goal in life is to avoid Hell, then I am sorry, you are mistaken.

This is good... John 3:16... I have read now for, I don't know.... about 4000 posts in this thread about religion and God... and Jesus but, not a word about the Spirit... the third part of the Trinity that exists here on earth and in our hearts... The absence of God in our hearts (or whatever you wish to call it) would seem to be hell... and the presence of God (the Holy Spirit) gives us the warmth and knowledge and surplants fear and coldness with certainty. At least for me.
Without this I'd probably feel as Moombeam describes... but, me I'm full in the knowledge that someday I'll be with Jesus among the good, the bad, and the ugly who also accepted Jesus as their Personal Savior... The Homo too will be there if his or her heart is as mine is.... Perhaps you disagree with me... that is ok but, never expect me to accept less than I have already... Eternal Life...

I agree almost completely. The only thing I don't agree with is that fact that homosexuals could have the same heart as you. If someone was truely a Christian, they would not be homosexual. Now if they were homosexual in the past but changed their ways and became a Christian, than that would make sense. But no true Christian is a homosexual.

I find it ridiculous that you feel you can say that. You have admitted that you sin, how can you say that being a homosexual is worse than the things you have done? you cannot, maybe being a homosexual isn't as bad as all that masturbation you admitted to and the homosexual shall get entrance to heaven while you burn? ever think about that?

I admit that there are no sins greater than others. So, because I know that things that I do are sin, I try to correct them. I have never met a homosexual that is actively trying to stop having sex with other men.

So are you saying that if you shoplift a candybar, you're just as bad as a serial murderer?

Please define "bad." If you are unforgivin for stealing that candy bar, just like that other person is unforgivin for murdering, then yes, you are both going to Hell.

Rofl. This "hell" must be pretty full! I can't believe "god" would send people to hell for taking a candy bar. What if they're starving and they have no money and they must eat? Do they still go to hell for doing that?

Ever heard of getting a job? Soup kitchens?

Um, what if this is during a depression with unemployment everywhere and the homeless bum with no residency and a bad smell can't get a job? Quit avoiding the question.

If it doesn't belong to you and you take it, no matter what the circumstances, it is wrong. My answer would be yes. I doubt that God would think differently, but I'm not God, so I don't know.

Let me ask you this: How many people in this world go their entire life without sinning even once, and then end up going to Hell because they stole one candy bar because they had no food? I can answer for you, not a single person. So whether it was ok to steal that candy bar or not, you would still need Jesus to save you from your other sins.[/quote]
So if I murder 15 people this "jesus" will "save me"? Don't say no, remember, according to you all sins are of equal weight.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yup, a while back I raised the question of what was the point of capital punishment for a murderer say of 15 who had been SAVED. Who the hell are we to kill an innocent. We'll probably go to hell for that too.

I think metalloid told us all we need to know. If he didn't believe the way he does life would end. In my opinion that really means that he experienced something so terrible as a child that if he remembered it he thinks he would die. If his belief system is correct he would be right, I guess, but the thing that worries me is what happens when the load you carry breaks your faith. If you carry around this horrible idea of damnation you could go psychotic and lots do. That's why I much prefer not to spread this damnation stuff around. It's the worst kind of mental prison you can get yourself into. Once you lock yourself in that room, you are afraid to sail to the New World cause you'll fall off the edge of the earth. It really helps adventurers to know the world is round. I have no designs on your faith for you metalloid. I just hate to see what looks to me l9ke a mental cancer spread roung the world. It seems like such a damn tight cage. I guess the rigidity is part of the fear and you can't really help it. The trouble with fear, though, is that you don't yourself have to have it to suffer from it. I got no objection to the God part, it's the everybody else is a loser part I can't buy.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, a while back I raised the question of what was the point of capital punishment for a murderer say of 15 who had been SAVED. Who the hell are we to kill an innocent. We'll probably go to hell for that too.

I think metalloid told us all we need to know. If he didn't believe the way he does life would end. In my opinion that really means that he experienced something so terrible as a child that if he remembered it he thinks he would die. If his belief system is correct he would be right, I guess, but the thing that worries me is what happens when the load you carry breaks your faith. If you carry around this horrible idea of damnation you could go psychotic and lots do. That's why I much prefer not to spread this damnation stuff around. It's the worst kind of mental prison you can get yourself into. Once you lock yourself in that room, you are afraid to sail to the New World cause you'll fall off the edge of the earth. It really helps adventurers to know the world is round. I have no designs on your faith for you metalloid. I just hate to see what looks to me l9ke a mental cancer spread roung the world. It seems like such a damn tight cage. I guess the rigidity is part of the fear and you can't really help it. The trouble with fear, though, is that you don't yourself have to have it to suffer from it. I got no objection to the God part, it's the everybody else is a loser part I can't buy.

good thing mettaloid was born into the "correct" faith, good thing he was not born in china or something, because then he would burn in hell no doubt.

 

[Moonbeam]

Seems like everybody who has one of the millions of only truths got lucky that way.



I wonder if this guy made it.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Seems like everybody who has one of the millions of only truths got lucky that way.



I wonder if this guy made it.

I think what you say may be right.. in that I refuse all the "church" stuff because I accept a personal relationship with God thru Jesus... I don't need anyone to say if this then that... Jesus said what he said.... I believe you don't need all the rest unless you do... I wonder how many find their answer without all the B/S attached... not many... I say look for the simple and be at one with it. All this I'm right, therefore, you're wrong is so sick... it turns everyone off to the potential... don't threaten me I usually respond in kind... I bet most do as well... Jerry Fallwell turns my stomach... now I'm all flustered just at the notion of "you'all are going to hell" B/S!!!

 

[BigToquex]

Metalloid,

Being completely ignorant and not believing are very different. In Moonbeam's case, I have told him about Jesus saving us, and he chooses not to believe

Moonbeam chooses not to believe. But in this case, why should he believe you? What I was getting at was I thought that God wouldn't condem you, unless you actually truly believed in God and Heaven and Hell, etc, and still committed the sin.

Until someone truly knows in their heart that God exists, I didn't think they would be condemmed. I mean, they will still recieve their judgement, but won't be sent straight to hell. (eg, I may do some sins now, some things I may not even know are sins. I won't be condemmed for that as I know nothing of my sins, and as of yet have no reason to believe I can be judged for my actions)

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: BigToque
Metalloid,

Being completely ignorant and not believing are very different. In Moonbeam's case, I have told him about Jesus saving us, and he chooses not to believe

Moonbeam chooses not to believe. But in this case, why should he believe you? What I was getting at was I thought that God wouldn't condem you, unless you actually truly believed in God and Heaven and Hell, etc, and still committed the sin.

Until someone truly knows in their heart that God exists, I didn't think they would be condemmed. I mean, they will still recieve their judgement, but won't be sent straight to hell. (eg, I may do some sins now, some things I may not even know are sins. I won't be condemmed for that as I know nothing of my sins, and as of yet have no reason to believe I can be judged for my actions)

I don't know how true what you say is. I suppose it is up to each to discern his own fate. I don't know if there will be more than just heaven and hell at some point... and it does seem cruel to be sent to hell having never heard the word of God, for being human.
But, from the time of Moses and before God was God and a covenant existed... and agreement to his chosen people... still in effect.
Jesus brought another and newer covenent for all to have... that through him and only through him can we gain salvation... not deeds or any thing else... so sin does not obviate salvation.. in fact, because of sin salvation though Jesus is possible... If Jesus is in your heart you'll not sin.... but, we do... and when we ask Jesus to forgive he does and will continue to... the slate is clean and there are plenty of erasers...

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Seems like everybody who has one of the millions of only truths got lucky that way.



I wonder if this guy made it.

I think what you say may be right.. in that I refuse all the "church" stuff because I accept a personal relationship with God thru Jesus... I don't need anyone to say if this then that... Jesus said what he said.... I believe you don't need all the rest unless you do... I wonder how many find their answer without all the B/S attached... not many... I say look for the simple and be at one with it. All this I'm right, therefore, you're wrong is so sick... it turns everyone off to the potential... don't threaten me I usually respond in kind... I bet most do as well... Jerry Fallwell turns my stomach... now I'm all flustered just at the notion of "you'all are going to hell" B/S!!!

I'm from lynchburg, VA, and falwell makes me sick too. I thank my parents and god (if there is one) that I was not brought up in his church like a ton of people in lynchburg are. My mom grew up going to church pretty much every week, my dad, some. And together they decided to not bring up their kids religious so that we could figure it out for ourselves, which I feel is a great idea. If you are brought up being told this stuff as a kid then of course there is a high chance you will internalize it and refuse to really take an objective look at the situation, some people do it, and usually I think it is because of corrupt churches that draws them to explore more. I can't say which is a better way to live, but I can voice my opinion that I do not appreciate people trying to scare others into religion and stating their beliefs as concrete fact, no one really has the answers and that is why it is known as "faith" instead of fact.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Seems like everybody who has one of the millions of only truths got lucky that way.



I wonder if this guy made it.

I think what you say may be right.. in that I refuse all the "church" stuff because I accept a personal relationship with God thru Jesus... I don't need anyone to say if this then that... Jesus said what he said.... I believe you don't need all the rest unless you do... I wonder how many find their answer without all the B/S attached... not many... I say look for the simple and be at one with it. All this I'm right, therefore, you're wrong is so sick... it turns everyone off to the potential... don't threaten me I usually respond in kind... I bet most do as well... Jerry Fallwell turns my stomach... now I'm all flustered just at the notion of "you'all are going to hell" B/S!!!

I'm from lynchburg, VA, and falwell makes me sick too. I thank my parents and god (if there is one) that I was not brought up in his church like a ton of people in lynchburg are. My mom grew up going to church pretty much every week, my dad, some. And together they decided to not bring up their kids religious so that we could figure it out for ourselves, which I feel is a great idea. If you are brought up being told this stuff as a kid then of course there is a high chance you will internalize it and refuse to really take an objective look at the situation, some people do it, and usually I think it is because of corrupt churches that draws them to explore more. I can't say which is a better way to live, but I can voice my opinion that I do not appreciate people trying to scare others into religion and stating their beliefs as concrete fact, no one really has the answers and that is why it is known as "faith" instead of fact.

I never force anything... I once tried that on an automotive head bolt and it sheared.... had the hardest time trying to undo that one.. I was 18 and learned that nothing good can come of pushing beyond tolerance.... I expose folks I am around to my world and thinking and If they want to know more they ask... I don't opine against anything unless there is danger involved.. then I simply offer "what I'd do" and let me know you're ok...etc. I've had my fill of organized religion.. Its me and Jesus and that is it... I don't need, want or even care for anything else... Preacher wants my money on TV... can go to Hell for all I care... I'll give money for animal shelter or feed the hungry at Father Joe Carroll's but the rest... I could care less... My kids and Grand kids find Church something they enjoy so they go... but they don't bother to ask me if I want to go... and they each found their own way... (they don't go to the same church)... but they are happy and follow the good things in life... except my daughter who is bi polar, etc etc etc etc and use to be a bum magnet... (that is why I have her three kids)... now she's .... well.... I'll leave it there....
Find your answers.... they are there what ever they are.... but, I suggest you keep it simple and trust your heart and not much else..

 

[Metalloid]

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: TheShiz

Originally posted by: HJD1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Seems like everybody who has one of the millions of only truths got lucky that way.



I wonder if this guy made it.

I think what you say may be right.. in that I refuse all the "church" stuff because I accept a personal relationship with God thru Jesus... I don't need anyone to say if this then that... Jesus said what he said.... I believe you don't need all the rest unless you do... I wonder how many find their answer without all the B/S attached... not many... I say look for the simple and be at one with it. All this I'm right, therefore, you're wrong is so sick... it turns everyone off to the potential... don't threaten me I usually respond in kind... I bet most do as well... Jerry Fallwell turns my stomach... now I'm all flustered just at the notion of "you'all are going to hell" B/S!!!

I'm from lynchburg, VA, and falwell makes me sick too. I thank my parents and god (if there is one) that I was not brought up in his church like a ton of people in lynchburg are. My mom grew up going to church pretty much every week, my dad, some. And together they decided to not bring up their kids religious so that we could figure it out for ourselves, which I feel is a great idea. If you are brought up being told this stuff as a kid then of course there is a high chance you will internalize it and refuse to really take an objective look at the situation, some people do it, and usually I think it is because of corrupt churches that draws them to explore more. I can't say which is a better way to live, but I can voice my opinion that I do not appreciate people trying to scare others into religion and stating their beliefs as concrete fact, no one really has the answers and that is why it is known as "faith" instead of fact.

I never force anything... I once tried that on an automotive head bolt and it sheared.... had the hardest time trying to undo that one.. I was 18 and learned that nothing good can come of pushing beyond tolerance.... I expose folks I am around to my world and thinking and If they want to know more they ask... I don't opine against anything unless there is danger involved.. then I simply offer "what I'd do" and let me know you're ok...etc. I've had my fill of organized religion.. Its me and Jesus and that is it... I don't need, want or even care for anything else... Preacher wants my money on TV... can go to Hell for all I care... I'll give money for animal shelter or feed the hungry at Father Joe Carroll's but the rest... I could care less... My kids and Grand kids find Church something they enjoy so they go... but they don't bother to ask me if I want to go... and they each found their own way... (they don't go to the same church)... but they are happy and follow the good things in life... except my daughter who is bi polar, etc etc etc etc and use to be a bum magnet... (that is why I have her three kids)... now she's .... well.... I'll leave it there....
Find your answers.... they are there what ever they are.... but, I suggest you keep it simple and trust your heart and not much else..

I think it is cool that it is just you and Jesus, if you can stay on path doing it that way. The main reason I go to church is to learn more about the Bible. My pastor is a very smart man, and he teaches very well. I think that if I just stopped going to church completely I would have problems staying accountable, but I have never tried it so I don't know. But hey, if you can retain a strong relationship with Jesus and keep from sinning without going to church, then that is awesome.

I have noticed the Holy Spirit working very strongly in me the last few weeks. For example when I used to sin, I sometimes wouldn't think about how wrong what I had just done was until maybe the end of the day. Now when I sin, I notice immediatly that I have sinned and ask for forgiveness; not just because I fear Hell or other consequences for my sin, but because I am truly sorry for committing that sin. The Holy Spirit is very powerful, you just need to listen to it.

 

[LunarRay]

Quote by metalloid15

I think it is cool that it is just you and Jesus, if you can stay on path doing it that way. The main reason I go to church is to learn more about the Bible. My pastor is a very smart man, and he teaches very well. I think that if I just stopped going to church completely I would have problems staying accountable, but I have never tried it so I don't know. But hey, if you can retain a strong relationship with Jesus and keep from sinning without going to church, then that is awesome.

I have noticed the Holy Spirit working very strongly in me the last few weeks. For example when I used to sin, I sometimes wouldn't think about how wrong what I had just done was until maybe the end of the day. Now when I sin, I notice immediatly that I have sinned and ask for forgiveness; not just because I fear Hell or other consequences for my sin, but because I am truly sorry for committing that sin. The Holy Spirit is very powerful, you just need to listen to it.[/quote]

It is good for all to read your above... If one, just one person finds peace with Jesus by reading your words and you accomplish nothing else ever your existance will have benifited mankind beyond that of the greatest president.... IMHO.
Oh I sin and do so often but am always instantly tugged at by the little guy on the shoulder... but, never anything big.... cuz I respect the law, fellow people and all... beside it would be dumb to have my kid arrest me... he's SDPD. But let a good looking lady walk by and I admire with all my failing eyesight...

good for you and you are a credit to your self and who ever influenced your path....

 

[isaacmacdonald]

way to many pages to read through, but I thought I'd add that nature actually exhibits many instances of both male and female homosexuality. Dolphins are very prolific in their sexuality and engage in hetro/homo/and even beastiality (if that's what you call it). Female monkeys from china are known to actually compete against males for the best females. Male Penguins, even in the presence of an available female population, often enagage in homosexual coitus. I guess that's just the way things go-