Honda Accord Diesel

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty
I am in favor of diesel-as long as the exhaust pipe is in the front of the vehicle so you can breathe the exhaust.

You think that just because you can't smell anything coming out of your gas engine exhaust that there isn't anything coming out? :roll:

Diesel is the future. Get used to it. The new generation of diesels is as clean as gasoline engines and nearly twice as fuel efficient. Put it together in a diesel-electric-hybrid (which will happen soon enough) and your Prius will look like a gas guzzler. This ain't your old 70s diesel.


Refineries can get as much of whatever product out of a barrel of oil as they want. They might just have to crack it more. Right now they just happen to be set up to crack more gas than diesel, but that can be changed easily enough. Remember also that it's light sweet crude that's becoming less abundant, whereas the heavy stuff is still everywhere.

And mmmm.... biodiesel... I dream of a "blue boxer" STI running on recycled veggie and putting down over 300 at the wheels with 50 mpg.

 

[Regs]

Let's just hope the car isn't 40k!!

How much horse will these cars have? I'd imagine around 170-200 like their current 2.4L 4Cyl offerings are.

Great news. I wonder if the price of gas will go up because people are using less gas.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Regs
Let's just hope the car isn't 40k!!

How much horse will these cars have? I'd imagine around 170-200 like their current 2.4L 4Cyl offerings are.

Great news. I wonder if the price of gas will go up because people are using less gas.

Doubtful, I'd venture around 140'ish HP but they probably produce around 275 ft/lbs of torque to get you moving.

 

[MedicBob]

Originally posted by: marincounty
I am in favor of diesel-as long as the exhaust pipe is in the front of the vehicle so you can breathe the exhaust.

I applaud you on your ignorant and uninformed post.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Regs
Let's just hope the car isn't 40k!!

How much horse will these cars have? I'd imagine around 170-200 like their current 2.4L 4Cyl offerings are.

Great news. I wonder if the price of gas will go up because people are using less gas.

A few less horses than that but with much better torque. Remember that hp = (tq*rpm)/5252 and that diesels don't rev as high as gas (although the latest gen are getting up there). The average driver won't notice the difference though. In fact, with the improved torque, they'll probably mistakenly think that it has more hp.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Regs
Let's just hope the car isn't 40k!!

How much horse will these cars have? I'd imagine around 170-200 like their current 2.4L 4Cyl offerings are.

Great news. I wonder if the price of gas will go up because people are using less gas.

170 to 200 hp is wishful thinking on a 2.2 diesel. it'd be lucky to clear 130 i bet. it'll likely have more torque than any other honda car engine, though.


these things are like early 80s ford 5.0s... all torque, no power.

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Regs
Let's just hope the car isn't 40k!!

How much horse will these cars have? I'd imagine around 170-200 like their current 2.4L 4Cyl offerings are.

Great news. I wonder if the price of gas will go up because people are using less gas.

170 to 200 hp is wishful thinking on a 2.2 diesel. it'd be lucky to clear 130 i bet. it'll likely have more torque than any other honda car engine, though.


these things are like early 80s ford 5.0s... all torque, no power.

That's why they add forced induction... Makes as much hp as a gas engine while providing at least 50% more torque usually.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Regs
Let's just hope the car isn't 40k!!

How much horse will these cars have? I'd imagine around 170-200 like their current 2.4L 4Cyl offerings are.

Great news. I wonder if the price of gas will go up because people are using less gas.

170 to 200 hp is wishful thinking on a 2.2 diesel. it'd be lucky to clear 130 i bet. it'll likely have more torque than any other honda car engine, though.


these things are like early 80s ford 5.0s... all torque, no power.

It will have well over 130HP. VW TDI engine only puts out a little under 100 IIRC. I would say probably at least 150. As Vic said hp = (tq*rpm)/5252.

-Kevin

Edit: 150HP @ 4200RPM gives it 187.5ft/lbs of torque. That seems a little on the low end for a guess- but definitely doable.

After researching the Jetta TDI (2006) produces 100HP with 177ft/lbs of torque. Seems perfectly acceptable for the Accords larger engine to produce more than that.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Strk
Now if only we could get this engine and the Civic hatchback here in the States, I would be one happy man.

Yeah, their Civic hatchback looks friggin awesome.

 

[UNCjigga]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Honda is canceling the accord hybrid in the US due to lack of sales.....hopefully they will go with this

I think that's the point--every source I've read mentions that Honda USA will put the diesel in the North American lineup to replace the hybrid. The reasoning--a performance-oriented V6 hybrid didn't make sense for the Accord given the price premium (I think it makes more sense if they put a 300hp version of hybrid motor in the next TL).

The 4-cylinder hybrid from the Civic also wouldn't do the Accord justice, since its not as advanced/efficient as the Camry's hybrid motor.

Rather than build a new hybrid powerplant, Honda decided to go with a global diesel to serve more markets and make clean technology more accessible (this motor will have a much smaller price premium over the standard 4-cylinder and might be cheaper than the V6 option).

 

[UNCjigga]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mariok2006
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/0...-diesel-to-hit-60-mpg/

British motoring mag Autocar is reporting that the new Accord diesel we recently told you about will get really good mileage. That might seem like a no-brainer, but when we say "really good," we mean it. Like more than 60 mpg really good. Autocar says the diesel will be good for as much as 62.8 mpg when it appears in a dealership near you. That's 52.3 mpg here in the States, by the way. Honda's new clean diesel is apparently based on the current 2.2 i-CTDi, and when fitted in a Euro Accord, it achieved that staggering 62.8 mpg at a recent diesel technology convention in California.

Besides the stellar fuel economy rating, these new diesels wear the "clean" tag proudly. The catalytic converter on these Honda diesels is helping it meet the strict US (especially in California) emissions standards, running as cleanly as gas engines. They do it by converting nitrogen into ammonia, which is then used to further diminish the remaining NOx gases. The new Accords should show up in September, but we're not sure if the diesel will be available from the get-go or if it will appear down the road.

[Source: Autocar]

This should be great news for those that will be in the market for a diesel in the next couple of years...

If they put that engine in the Acura TSX they'd sell a million of them. Hell, I'd trade the Maxima in a second for that combination.

The TSX is underpowered as it is--they will *not* put a diesel in the TSX! Hopefully it'll be getting the turbo-4 from the RDX.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

It will have well over 130HP. VW TDI engine only puts out a little under 100 IIRC. I would say probably at least 150. As Vic said hp = (tq*rpm)/5252.

-Kevin

Edit: 150HP @ 4200RPM gives it 187.5ft/lbs of torque. That seems a little on the low end for a guess- but definitely doable.

After researching the Jetta TDI (2006) produces 100HP with 177ft/lbs of torque. Seems perfectly acceptable for the Accords larger engine to produce more than that.

they're going to add "well over" 30% more horsepower with a 16% increase in displacement? color me skeptical.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: UNCjigga

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mariok2006
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/0...-diesel-to-hit-60-mpg/

British motoring mag Autocar is reporting that the new Accord diesel we recently told you about will get really good mileage. That might seem like a no-brainer, but when we say "really good," we mean it. Like more than 60 mpg really good. Autocar says the diesel will be good for as much as 62.8 mpg when it appears in a dealership near you. That's 52.3 mpg here in the States, by the way. Honda's new clean diesel is apparently based on the current 2.2 i-CTDi, and when fitted in a Euro Accord, it achieved that staggering 62.8 mpg at a recent diesel technology convention in California.

Besides the stellar fuel economy rating, these new diesels wear the "clean" tag proudly. The catalytic converter on these Honda diesels is helping it meet the strict US (especially in California) emissions standards, running as cleanly as gas engines. They do it by converting nitrogen into ammonia, which is then used to further diminish the remaining NOx gases. The new Accords should show up in September, but we're not sure if the diesel will be available from the get-go or if it will appear down the road.

[Source: Autocar]

This should be great news for those that will be in the market for a diesel in the next couple of years...

If they put that engine in the Acura TSX they'd sell a million of them. Hell, I'd trade the Maxima in a second for that combination.

The TSX is underpowered as it is--they will *not* put a diesel in the TSX! Hopefully it'll be getting the turbo-4 from the RDX.

Isn't the TSX just a rebadged European Accord?

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I was under the impression that you get less diesel out of a barrel of crude oil than gasoline. Since there is less supply, a huge jump in the number of diesel engines out there would increase price dramatically.

Exactly. You get ~2 gallons of gas for every gallon of diesel you make. If everyone wanted diesel, you'd need to go through twice as many barrels of oil to make the diesel. Plus, all that gasoline wouldn't have much demand. Diesel price would skyrocket and gas price would plummet. Of course, eventually power plants would just buy the gas and burn it to make fuel (or some other similar big use would come in). But the point remains, we CAN'T have diesel be the fuel of all cars of the future without a MASSIVE increase in the cost of diesel.

Diesel engines are good engines. But the chemistry of oil refining states that we need twice as much gas consumption as we have diesel consumption. Any statement that one will take over is rediculously short-sighted.

In Europe are diesel and regular gas priced vastly different?

 

[ballmode]

Do want.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Syringer
In Europe are diesel and regular gas priced vastly different?

Gasoline here, diesel there, we still have the ~2:1 ratio in use. These liquids are a global good and are traded all around. I'm fairly certain the fuel tax in Europe is highly different between gasoline and diesel. But, I don't live there and don't have recent knowledge if there has been a change in that.

But to others comparing a gallon of gas to a gallon of diesel, that is not a fair comparison. There is more energy in a gallon of diesel. A gallon of jet fuel to a gallon of gasoline wouldn't be a fair comparison either. Neither would a gallon of cat pee vs a gallon of gasoline. You can't compare MPG of one fuel to another like that and have any meaningful result.

 

[kstu]

Originally posted by: MedicBob

Originally posted by: marincounty
I am in favor of diesel-as long as the exhaust pipe is in the front of the vehicle so you can breathe the exhaust.

I applaud you on your ignorant and uninformed post.

I was going to just call him an idiot, but your way sounds a lot better.

/takes notes

 

[Lucu]

In europe diesel cars have about 50% market share, and growing so there is fierce competition between all manufacturers for the most powerfull, quieter, less consumption diesel engine.

There are quite a few diesel cars that achieve that sort of power in a 2.2 liter, almost all manufacturers have such an engine in their line.

Generaly this is how the european market is in terms of diesel engines:


1.1 to 1.4 liters:70 to 90 HP
1.5 to 1.7 liters:90 to 125 HP
1.8 to 2.2 liters:90 to 170 HP
2.2 liters upwards: monsters of torque like the BMW 745d V8: 700NM at 1750 rpm and 300 HP or the VW Touareg V10 diesel with 315 HP and 750 NM of torque

I would say that you could add 5-10 HP per year to those engines. That is roughly what happened in the last few years.

Cons of Diesel
Usually modern diesel engines are more expensive than a equivalent gas engine, and they aren't has reliable has they used to be, because they became much more sofisticated, more than the majority of petrol engines. They have a short usefull rpm range limiting their hability on sporty driving.

Pros
Fuel Consumption
Torque at low rpm
easy to get more power from them, if that's your sort of thing. Although when under heavy aceleration they will look like a steam engine releasing black smoke


.
PS: in some european countries diesel can be like 20 eurocents cheaper than petrol (my case), in other countries (ie: UK) it can the same price or even more expensive than petrol (because of polution taxes or the like).

Twenty years ago diesel was mostly used by people that did very high mileages. Today diesels have improved a lot and with the increase in gas prices, a lot of people buy diesel cars.
In my country it's very difficult to see a big petrol engine, I would say anything bigger than a 1.6 almost for sure is going to be a diesel, anything smaller has a 50% chance of being diesel.

 

[Syringer]

So why haven't we done diesel yet?

 

[overst33r]

Originally posted by: Syringer
So why haven't we done diesel yet?

didn't catch on here due to bad reputation...

 

[IAteYourMother]

Diesel Hybrid cars. :Q

 

[Lucu]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Diesel Hybrid cars. :Q

Peugeot and Citroen are expected to release the first diesel hybrids to the market next year.
The Peugeot 308 and the Citroen C4 will have the 1.6 litre hdi with 110 hp + the electric engine and an expected fuel consuption of 3.4 liters of diesel.

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: marincounty
I am in favor of diesel-as long as the exhaust pipe is in the front of the vehicle so you can breathe the exhaust.

You think that just because you can't smell anything coming out of your gas engine exhaust that there isn't anything coming out? :roll:

Diesel is the future. Get used to it. The new generation of diesels is as clean as gasoline engines and nearly twice as fuel efficient. Put it together in a diesel-electric-hybrid (which will happen soon enough) and your Prius will look like a gas guzzler. This ain't your old 70s diesel.


Refineries can get as much of whatever product out of a barrel of oil as they want. They might just have to crack it more. Right now they just happen to be set up to crack more gas than diesel, but that can be changed easily enough. Remember also that it's light sweet crude that's becoming less abundant, whereas the heavy stuff is still everywhere.

And mmmm.... biodiesel... I dream of a "blue boxer" STI running on recycled veggie and putting down over 300 at the wheels with 50 mpg.

As far as that cracking thing goes...

"The average chemical formula for common diesel fuel is C12H26, ranging from approx. C10H22 to C15H32"

"The bulk of a typical gasoline consists of hydrocarbons with between 5 and 12 carbon atoms per molecule."

Cracking merely "cuts" carbon chains, it does not lengthen them.

Sure, they can use synthetic methods to make heavier compounds. And yes, based upon the composition of crude, more diesel or more gasoline can be had.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: lokiju
This is sweet news.

Now I'm really curious what the new Ridgeline will get with the V6 version of this.

If you drive a Ridgeline, you have to turn your man card over at the signing of paperwork.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

You also have alternative fuels like biodiesel that can be blended in(20% without needing mods and 100% with specialized engines) reducing that gap between barrel yields.

wrong....

you can run 100% BD in a diesel engine today (and it won't void the warranty on VW's) without mods...you need to change your fuel filter after the first tank, but then you are fine.

It's 100% Veggie oil (not converted to BD) that you need conversion/mods for.