Honest talk about Muslim extremism

[Moonbeam]

I think there's an underlying problem - a giant flaw in the human mind - that affects much more than just religion. The huge flaw is the mistaken belief that the thought "This idea makes sense to me" is correlated with the idea being true.

This huge flaw is the underlying cause of religious zealotry, bigotry, and pretty much all self-righteous behavior. We often see this huge flaw manifest itself in what you refer to as "Conservative Brain Defect," but the flaw exists in liberal minds as well, though perhaps not as jarringly.

I used the word bigotry to describe that flaw. I see bigotry as the conviction that there is a good and an evil coupled with the assumption that what one believes good and evil to be is actually what good and evil really are. The ego attaches to the notion that one is good because the good is good. A bigot then becomes a fanatic because if you tell him what he believes to be good isn't good, you attack his self respect because he thinks you are saying there is no such thing as good, that he isn't good. A bigot has a personal stake in believing what he believes is good. You are telling him he is what he actually hates, and he will reject that because he believes that good is real.

The whole problem is ego attachment to good and evil because neither of them exist. There is only love and perfection; there is only the timeless now. The duality, the delusion we suffer, is caused by language and thinking. With words we create ideas and concepts and use them to cause pain. We put our kids down and make them feel evil if they don't behave. We have a fractured divided consciousness and have lost our connection to God within.

 

[Moonbeam]

The fallacy of your argument is that morality is predicated upon the presence of religion and that isn't true. Morality pre-dates Christianity, Judaism and Islam. While Western and Mid Eastern society was supplemented by the Abrahamic moral belief system, it definitely was not the basis of it. The rule of law and basic human rights and moral values can be implemented easily without ascribing their concept to some fairytale deity in the sky. I'm part of a rapidly growing trend in the US - a generation of people that don't subscribe to any religion and are largely agnostic, atheist or unaffiliated with any religion. Yet those of us that are agnostic/atheist still understand the value of human life and basic rights without the need of organized religion.

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/25/calling_the_christian_right_soon_you_will_be_outnumbered_partner/

Morality is the product of being joy. If you love yourself you love the universe if not you hate everything. Being joy is ancient.

 

[sandorski]

The notion of Separation of Church and State is not a Christian one, it is a Secular notion.

 

[MagickMan]

Islamic extremists could kill millions more and some around here still wouldn't condemn Islam or its core teachings, it's part of the Progressive brain defect. :\

 

[Ventanni]

The fallacy of your argument is that morality is predicated upon the presence of religion and that isn't true. Morality pre-dates Christianity, Judaism and Islam. While Western and Mid Eastern society was supplemented by the Abrahamic moral belief system, it definitely was not the basis of it. The rule of law and basic human rights and moral values can be implemented easily without ascribing their concept to some fairytale deity in the sky. I'm part of a rapidly growing trend in the US - a generation of people that don't subscribe to any religion and are largely agnostic, atheist or unaffiliated with any religion. Yet those of us that are agnostic/atheist still understand the value of human life and basic rights without the need of organized religion.

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/10/09/nones-on-the-rise/
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/25/calling_the_christian_right_soon_you_will_be_outnumbered_partner/

And I'm trying to save you from living in a nation where your children or your grandchildren are viewed by others as worthless and expendable. Even if you believe that morals pre-dates Abraham, which is fine (that's not what I'm arguing here), the point I'm trying to make is that unless your movement plans to replace Christianity with morals that,

1. Individuals are held accountable for.
2. Individuals are going to stick to.
3. Aren't going to change on a regular based on who dictates what's good and what's not.

Your children or your grandchildren are going to live in a nation where they've viewed as expendable and worthless, and what's considered "right" and what's considered "wrong" is going to change depending on who's making the rules. Because whether you like it or not, Christian values are what make this country. Not pre-Abrahamic values, but Christian ones. I don't know if that's a warning sign to you, but that's dangerous. That's very, very dangerous.

I won't force you to believe in my religion. That's not how it works anyways. But I will warn you that it's not as simple as just removing it. Unless you have a plan to replace the foundation it provides it with something superior, it's better to keep it around for your own benefit. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

wouldn't condemn Islam or its core teachings

Why condemn Islam or it core teaching due to the actions of those who are preaching/following a bastardized form of Islam? Less than 2% of Muslims are radical Islamist.

 

[Blue_Max]

Why condemn Islam or it core teaching due to the actions of those who are preaching/following a bastardized form of Islam? Less than 2% of Muslims are radical Islamist.

Except it's not been "bastardized". "Radicals" are the ones following the quran and teachings of their prophet to the letter. They'll just as likely kill the "moderate" muslims for NOT following the quran precisely, making them infidels as well.

HOWEVER...

...this latest speech from the Egyptian president gives me hope. A revolution of islam may come and maybe peace can actually happen! Of course, this sort of thing usually involves a bloody, horrible schism or civil war of sorts... but if a revolution can happen, the world will definitely benefit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEhNarfrlec

[crossing fingers... but not holding breath]

 

[PlanetJosh]

It looks like the culprit in the Paris terrorist attack is Al Qaeda in Yemen.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/14/us-france-shooting-aqap-idUSKBN0KN0VO20150114

It's going to be the French Foreign Legion into action again invading the Middle East to fight the bad guys just like back in the old times in World War 2.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Less than 2% of Muslims are radical Islamist.

Less than 2% of the known radical Islamist@!@!

 

[JEDIYoda]

The notion of Separation of Church and State is not a Christian one, it is a Secular notion

hat has no bearing on the article.....

There is . . . simply no concept of the separation between mosque and state within orthodox Islam, so that at best the minority religions, including Christianity, can only aspire to toleration and never complete equality. This is totally contrary to the modern Christian notion of church and state, and has been so for centuries. So while even a majority Christian society can welcome Muslims as full and equal citizens, a majority Islamic nation can provide a grudging tolerance in theory, and usually a painful sufferance in reality. This leads to twin solitudes of understanding . . . or a conversation taking place in two different languages with no convincing or reliable translator.”

 

[JEDIYoda]

No, people have the right to have differing opinions than you. As long as the immigration is gradual, they should integrate over time. I personally have faith that the western way of life & governance is superior to the oppression in many middle-eastern countries. And over time immigrants will realize this and adopt the western ways into their personal lives<--Dreaming again I see!!

The immigration is anything but gradual and just by sheer numbers without even a shot being fired Europe will fall to the Muslims!!

 

[TheSlamma]

The notion of Separation of Church and State is not a Christian one, it is a Secular notion.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"

"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But now (or 'as it is') my kingdom is not from the world"

I'm an anti-theist, I hate all religion in the world, but with all honesty Muslims are in their middle ages right now and while bleeding heart liberals want to treat every religion equally for me extreme Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindu's do not concern me when it comes to the lives of other human beings like Muslims do. Doesn't mean I don't think they are capable of bad things, they are just not as inclined to do the same actions right now we see Muslims doing.

I'd love to see all religions gone and replaced by individual spirituality free from dogma as I think it's a catalyst for war in many/most cases, but I want that one gone first. Even in it's non radical forms it treats women like trash and gives men entitlements for simply being men. It has no reward system at all for trying to just be generally good to other people. The most peaceful Muslims in the world are the ones who practice it the least.

 

[Nebor]

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"

"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But now (or 'as it is') my kingdom is not from the world"

I'm an anti-theist, I hate all religion in the world, but with all honesty Muslims are in their middle ages right now and while bleeding heart liberals want to treat every religion equally for me extreme Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindu's do not concern me when it comes to the lives of other human beings like Muslims do. Doesn't mean I don't think they are capable of bad things, they are just not as inclined to do the same actions right now we see Muslims doing.

I'd love to see all religions gone and replaced by individual spirituality free from dogma as I think it's a catalyst for war in many/most cases, but I want that one gone first. Even in it's non radical forms it treats women like trash and gives men entitlements for simply being men. It has no reward system at all for trying to just be generally good to other people. The most peaceful Muslims in the world are the ones who practice it the least.

Good post. I'm an anti-theist as well, but smart enough to see that one religion alone is a real threat to the civilized world. Apostacy (atheism) is punishable by death only in Islamic countries.

 

[shira]

Good post. I'm an anti-theist as well, but smart enough to see that one religion alone is a real threat to the civilized world. Apostacy (atheism) is punishable by death only in Islamic countries.

Apostasy isn't the same thing as atheism. Apostasy means abandoning one's current religion. In the eyes of Islamists, it doesn't matter if a Muslim become an atheist or a Christian or anything else that's non-Muslim; in any of those cases, they're subject to the death penalty.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's always fun to watch the bigots when faced with bigotry they don't like. If the bigots call themselves Muslims, then the response is against all Muslims. If the bigots are religious, then it's bigotry against all religion. We have great contempt for the image of ourselves, and especially when we convince ourselves we aren't seeing ourselves.

The endless wheel of Karma is turned by the violence justified by the good bigots fighting their reflections.

Real Islam is like all other religions that have their source in love. It is non-struggle against one condition by surrender to the will of God. The world is perfect and always has been. Everything that happens happens exactly as it must. It is only ones attitude that one can change. The real purpose of religion is to provide the groundwork for such an awakening.

 

[sm625]

The problem is not muslim extremism. Did muslim extremists cause 10+ million people to get put into the penal system for possession of a frickin harmless herb that never killed nobody? All the while the government not only financially supports but mandates the sale and distribution of drugs that kill hundreds of thousands every year? Do I really even need to go down the entire list of all the crap that is f$%^# in this country? Muslims could run around blowing stuff up en mass and it still wouldnt be half as extreme as the crazy crap that most people have voted for at least once. And the funny part is that it could very easily turn out that muslims didnt even have anything to do with what happened in France, and yet 99/100 drugged out mind numbed morons will never even ask the question: could this have been staged? You idiots arent even asking that question, despite all the history... Now that sort of devotion to a corrupt regime... that is extremism. To accept without question the narrative that is fed you by such a corrupt establishment, that is extremism. That is exactly the kind of extremism that leads to millions dead. You have no idea who really did what. No idea. None. You just accept what you're fed. It's disgusting.

 

[sandorski]

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"

"My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But now (or 'as it is') my kingdom is not from the world"

I'm an anti-theist, I hate all religion in the world, but with all honesty Muslims are in their middle ages right now and while bleeding heart liberals want to treat every religion equally for me extreme Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindu's do not concern me when it comes to the lives of other human beings like Muslims do. Doesn't mean I don't think they are capable of bad things, they are just not as inclined to do the same actions right now we see Muslims doing.

I'd love to see all religions gone and replaced by individual spirituality free from dogma as I think it's a catalyst for war in many/most cases, but I want that one gone first. Even in it's non radical forms it treats women like trash and gives men entitlements for simply being men. It has no reward system at all for trying to just be generally good to other people. The most peaceful Muslims in the world are the ones who practice it the least.

These are neither the concept of Separation of Church and State nor are they the reasons why that separation was first implemented into the US Constitution. No Christian State even came close to that concept. Only a newly forming State tired of Church/State intermingling and the founders being educated/focused on the most current Philosophical Thought of the time, chose to implement such a Secular Idea.

At best you are committing an Ad Hoc fallacy.

 

[Nebor]

The problem is not muslim extremism. Did muslim extremists cause 10+ million people to get put into the penal system for possession of a frickin harmless herb that never killed nobody? All the while the government not only financially supports but mandates the sale and distribution of drugs that kill hundreds of thousands every year? Do I really even need to go down the entire list of all the crap that is f$%^# in this country? Muslims could run around blowing stuff up en mass and it still wouldnt be half as extreme as the crazy crap that most people have voted for at least once. And the funny part is that it could very easily turn out that muslims didnt even have anything to do with what happened in France, and yet 99/100 drugged out mind numbed morons will never even ask the question: could this have been staged? You idiots arent even asking that question, despite all the history... Now that sort of devotion to a corrupt regime... that is extremism. To accept without question the narrative that is fed you by such a corrupt establishment, that is extremism. That is exactly the kind of extremism that leads to millions dead. You have no idea who really did what. No idea. None. You just accept what you're fed. It's disgusting.

Speaking of drugged out Americans, where can I get whatever you're on?

 

[BoberFett]

And the funny part is that it could very easily turn out that muslims didnt even have anything to do with what happened in France, and yet 99/100 drugged out mind numbed morons will never even ask the question: could this have been staged?

You're not supposed to eat the urinal mints. They're bad for you.

 

[raildogg]

Morality is the product of being joy. If you love yourself you love the universe if not you hate everything. Being joy is ancient.

My friend, your posts make quite a bit of sense (a lot of times ). Thank you for providing some sanity.

Love is the most overused word yet has ZERO meaning. People abuse that word all day long. But, as you say, if there is true love, then there is joy - both internally and externally.

Otherwise, we can argue and fight all day and everyday. Without that true love, nothing can save mankind.

 

[raildogg]

The problem is not muslim extremism. Did muslim extremists cause 10+ million people to get put into the penal system for possession of a frickin harmless herb that never killed nobody? All the while the government not only financially supports but mandates the sale and distribution of drugs that kill hundreds of thousands every year? Do I really even need to go down the entire list of all the crap that is f$%^# in this country? Muslims could run around blowing stuff up en mass and it still wouldnt be half as extreme as the crazy crap that most people have voted for at least once. And the funny part is that it could very easily turn out that muslims didnt even have anything to do with what happened in France, and yet 99/100 drugged out mind numbed morons will never even ask the question: could this have been staged? You idiots arent even asking that question, despite all the history... Now that sort of devotion to a corrupt regime... that is extremism. To accept without question the narrative that is fed you by such a corrupt establishment, that is extremism. That is exactly the kind of extremism that leads to millions dead. You have no idea who really did what. No idea. None. You just accept what you're fed. It's disgusting.

It's easier to live your life with your eyes closed or half closed. It's easier to accept certain myths than to actually think. It's easier to go with the mainstream. It's easier to watch TV news all day and assume that's reality. People will choose the easy path rather than use their mind. Or if they do use their mind, they block out all information that doesn't fit with their extremely narrow viewpoint. That is what the vast majority of mankind does.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Except it's not been "bastardized". "Radicals" are the ones following the quran and teachings of their prophet to the letter.

I guess it just so happens that your interpretation of the Quran is the same as the terrorists. Thousands of different interpretations of it over a thousand years from millions of hours of study has led to all the different sects.
People devote their lives to studying and debating this, Blue Max breezed through the made for dummies version and is sure he has it down pat though

 

[raildogg]

Islamic extremists could kill millions more and some around here still wouldn't condemn Islam or its core teachings, it's part of the Progressive brain defect. :\

Even if they could, they won't match the brutality shown by Europeans in the recent past.

The world Islamic extremist is rather popular it seems, unfortunately. It's been popularized by the media and is now picked up by the average person thinking they know what's going on. What percentage of population have the evil "Islamic terrorists" killed in the Western world lately? Since the number is extremely tiny, why does a supposed educated, open minded (yeah right), and sophisticated Westerner have to fear this "Islamic extremist" boogeyman?

And the so-called progressive brain is the same diseased brain that everyone on this planet has. Nothing different. Their conditioning is different than someone else's conditioning. But in the end, they are both conditioned and therefore can never see reality.

 

[Orignal Earl]

hat has no bearing on the article.....

There is . . . simply no concept of the separation between mosque and state within orthodox Islam, so that at best the minority religions, including Christianity, can only aspire to toleration and never complete equality. This is totally contrary to the modern Christian notion of church and state, and has been so for centuries. So while even a majority Christian society can welcome Muslims as full and equal citizens, a majority Islamic nation can provide a grudging tolerance in theory, and usually a painful sufferance in reality. This leads to twin solitudes of understanding . . . or a conversation taking place in two different languages with no convincing or reliable translator.”

You sure put a lot of credence into Coren's opinion, although I'm sure that you have no idea who he is until you google him now.
He is also 100% sure that Catholics are the only Christians

 

[MagickMan]

Except it's not been "bastardized". "Radicals" are the ones following the quran and teachings of their prophet to the letter. They'll just as likely kill the "moderate" muslims for NOT following the quran precisely, making them infidels as well.

HOWEVER...

...this latest speech from the Egyptian president gives me hope. A revolution of islam may come and maybe peace can actually happen! Of course, this sort of thing usually involves a bloody, horrible schism or civil war of sorts... but if a revolution can happen, the world will definitely benefit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEhNarfrlec

[crossing fingers... but not holding breath]

That's pretty much it, right there. At its core, Islam is racist, violent, and misogynistic, in a way that makes any other mainstream religion look like progressive humanists.