Housing prices.

[Greenman]

He is a retired sponge soaking up social security and Medicare money while calling the entirety of the rest of working US society with a 4% unemployment rate lazy. You know, the ones paying his bills and subsidizing his life.

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

Participating in society isn't money 'taken' from you.

 

[brycejones]

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

Greenman is volunteering to pick cotton to MAGA it sounds like.

 

[pauldun170]

Plonk

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/indiana-house-passes-bill-to-jail-homeless-persons/

If homeless and tenting it while also doing gig work getting arrested means you now have lost your source of income as well as your effective home.

It's one thing if you are forced to move if found on public property. You pack up your gear and relocate.
With this law, you are effectively facing jail time if you refuse to be stuffed into a shelter where now you face a different set of risk.

Keep in mind that homeless shelters are at the top of the nimby no no lists and that law enforcement training means that officers don't even consider them human beings.

 

[fskimospy]

If homeless and tenting it while also doing gig work getting arrested means you now have lost your source of income as well as your effective home.

It's one thing if you are forced to move if found on public property. You pack up your gear and relocate.
With this law, you are effectively facing jail time if you refuse to be stuffed into a shelter where now you face a different set of risk.

Keep in mind that homeless shelters are at the top of the nimby no no lists and that law enforcement training means that officers don't even consider them human beings.

This is another example of how we as a society will do literally ANYTHING other than allow adequate housing to be built.

 

[repoman0]

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

I understand it a whole lot better than you. You paid into the system and are now getting more of it back than you put in during your final years of existence because this country and its economy have advanced and grown faster than the value of the money you put in. You are a sponge not because you’re collecting what you earned with those contributions but because of your votes to move an advanced economy backward, destroying the viability of this system for future participants, all while happily collecting the fruits of our labor. Maybe leech is more descriptive than sponge actually — sucking up the benefits and shutting it out for future generations.

I think I’ll continue my career as an engineer and stick with picking up heavy things at the squat rack. Noted that you, a fucking moron who is the embodiment of the fact that most of this country reads below a sixth grade level, would rather trade knowledge workers for house cleaners and factory workers.

 

[ivwshane]

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

That’s the America you’ve been voting for your entire life and now suddenly you don’t like the outcome? Gtfo!

 

[ch33zw1z]

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

Lead the way gramps. Post up your pickings for the day.

 

[Wolverine2349]

This is another example of how we as a society will do literally ANYTHING other than allow adequate housing to be built.

Yup like I stated in another thread all the ones who stated housing was depressed and needed to come back back in 2010-2011. Well careful what you wish for. You just might get it And oh by have we ever ever ever and that is a massive understatement.

The real crisis was not depressed housing prices (They were not depressed in 2009-2011 they just were reasonable). The real crisis is lack of housing and insanely high costs.

2010-2011 is the good old days of the housing market compared to what we have today or even 6-8 years ago when housing prices were still way way way too high but 6 to 8 years ago is nothing compared to today.

I cannot understand how or why people were brainwashed to believe fast rising prices were a good thing back then when they were not. We wanted better employment and lots and lots of homes built in 2012 to present and prices to stay flat everywhere at 2010-2011 levels instead of oh this is good prices are rising blah blah blah and now they are so unaffordable and have been for almost a decade. But today and last few years are another something.

 

[fskimospy]

Yup like I stated in another thread all the ones who stated housing was depressed and needed to come back back in 2010-2011. Well careful what you wish for. You just might get it And oh by have we ever ever ever and that is a massive understatement.

The real crisis was not depressed housing prices (They were not depressed in 2009-2011 they just were reasonable). The real crisis is lack of housing and insanely high costs.

2010-2011 is the good old days of the housing market compared to what we have today or even 6-8 years ago when housing prices were still way way way too high but its nothing compared to today.

Yep, exactly.

The most annoying part to me is this humanitarian crisis is 100% self-inflicted. We could solve it for free by simply no longer banning housing construction but we refuse. Then when the inevitable consequences happen people freak out…and then refuse to change anything.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Yep, exactly.

The most annoying part to me is this humanitarian crisis is 100% self-inflicted. We could solve it for free by simply no longer banning housing construction but we refuse. Then when the inevitable consequences happen people freak out…and then refuse to change anything.

BINGO exactly. Not a thing was learned from the housing bubble 2000 to 2006 except this time lets intentional not build homes so high prices stick.= and HELOCs and 0 mony down loans and price out everyone else this time so it never happens again sadly. HELOCs and les than 20% down loans should be banned.

Reality in 2012 when inventory started to tighten and prices started to rise there should have been cries tp build build build. But it was then too late. Prices were already way way too high by 2015 or even 2014 to matter. But my god everyone would take them compared to today yikes.

And no one could have foreseen todays prices back in 2010-2011. They were expected to be flat for many years. Unfortunately and not for the better economists were wrong and what happened is not for the better and anyone who says otherwise is a hoarding of multiple properties and or uses HELOCs rather than treating a home as a place to live to call your own while strive to be rent and mortgage free by paying off mortgage balance ASAP. My last statement about paying off mortgage ASAP was ore than hard enough even at 2010-2012 prices. Let alone today where its not only looking at 30 years minimum you may never ay it off in your lifetime. In 2010-2011 prices you could do it in 15 years or maybe a little less with financial discipline.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Yep, exactly.

The most annoying part to me is this humanitarian crisis is 100% self-inflicted. We could solve it for free by simply no longer banning housing construction but we refuse. Then when the inevitable consequences happen people freak out…and then refuse to change anything.

Yup and also to add the Federal government should have give all localities tax incentives to relax zoning and should have done it in 2012 to at latest 2013.

 

[fskimospy]

BINGO exactly. Not a thing was learned from the housing bubble 2000 to 2006 except this time lets intentional not build homes so high prices stick.= and HELOCs and 0 mony down loans and price out everyone else this time so it never happens again sadly. HELOCs and les than 20% down loans should be banned.

Reality in 2012 when inventory started to tighten and prices started to rise there should have been cries tp build build build. But it was then too late. Prices were already way way too high by 2015 or even 2014 to matter. But my god everyone would take them compared to today yikes.

And no one could have foreseen todays prices back in 2010-2011. They were expected to be flat for many years. Unfortunately and not for the better economists were wrong and what happened is not for the better and anyone who says otherwise is a hoarding of multiple properties and or uses HELOCs rather than treating a home as a place to live to call your own while strive to be rent and mortgage free by paying off mortgage balance ASAP. My last statement about paying off mortgage ASAP was ore than hard enough even at 2010-2012 prices. Let alone today where its not only looking at 30 years minimum you may never ay it off in your lifetime. In 2010-2011 prices you could do it in 15 years or maybe a little less with financial discipline.

I lived in San Diego from 2000-2010 and during that time there were definitely homeless people there but it was manageable. I returned for about a year in 2020 and the homeless population had absolutely exploded. (because house prices had absolutely exploded) Despite the fact that almost everyone there is now housing burdened, the streets being filled with homeless people, and the parking lots filled with people living in their cars, people still recoiled at the idea of building more housing. The most common counter-argument was that the government should ban price increases which, lol.

Hell, I live in NYC now and despite how high housing costs are being basically all anyone can talk about people freak out at the idea of building more housing. They - no joke - claim that building more housing makes housing more expensive. When I point out that's not true for literally anything else in the world they claim housing is special.

 

[Brainonska511]

Reality in 2012 when inventory started to tighten and prices started to rise there should have been cries tp build build build. But it was then too late. Prices were already way way too high by 2015 or even 2014 to matter. But my god everyone would take them compared to today yikes.

But have you thought about the neighborhood character? It should be frozen in amber from the moment *I* move in.

Or that new homes are all "luxury" homes? (nevermind that the laws have created an environment where only higher end condos or mcmansions pencil out for developers).

 

[Wolverine2349]

I lived in San Diego from 2000-2010 and during that time there were definitely homeless people there but it was manageable. I returned for about a year in 2020 and the homeless population had absolutely exploded. (because house prices had absolutely exploded) Despite the fact that almost everyone there is now housing burdened, the streets being filled with homeless people, and the parking lots filled with people living in their cars, people still recoiled at the idea of building more housing. The most common counter-argument was that the government should ban price increases which, lol.

Hell, I live in NYC now and despite how high housing costs are being basically all anyone can talk about people freak out at the idea of building more housing. They - no joke - claim that building more housing makes housing more expensive. When I point out that's not true for literally anything else in the world they claim housing is special.

Wow in San Diego. Well prices there and in most other major areas of California even in 2010 were so high compared to almost all other areas that their 2010 prices were far higher than most United States prices in 2015-2019. Maybe the last few years prices in most metros have caught up or barley exceeded California 2010-2011 prices.

Prices were never reasonable in CA metros or Washington DC, Seattle, Boston, NYC even in 2010-2011 unlike most areas of the United States.

 

[fskimospy]

But have you thought about the neighborhood character? It should be frozen in amber from the moment *I* move in.

Or that new homes are all "luxury" homes? (nevermind that the laws have created an environment where only higher end condos or mcmansions pencil out for developers).

Also 'luxury' homes generally mean 'new' homes. Of course new homes are generally nicer than old homes! You never hear people argue that we should stop building new cars because they are more expensive than used cars. This is because that's a self-evidently stupid idea but somehow people don't understand the exact same logic holds for homes.

 

[Wolverine2349]

But have you thought about the neighborhood character? It should be frozen in amber from the moment *I* move in.

Or that new homes are all "luxury" homes? (nevermind that the laws have created an environment where only higher end condos or mcmansions pencil out for developers).

Yes that is true and another problem.

Also I am sure I cannot find the article now but I remember reading a Yahoo article in late 2011 that abandoned homes should be bulldozed to put a floor under housing prices.

My god how insane can those views be. I mean not even 2 years later or just 1 year later we had inventory shortages and prices on verge of rising way way way way to fast. And early 2014 I remember advertisements on radio in Michigan that hoe prices rose 40% form early 2013 to early 2014 and the advertisement for borrowing against your hoe lol as if that was a positive thing. People do not know how good the situation was then regarding only home prices (of course not unempoyment) and we needed employment to come back and homes to be built not fast rising home prices, Maybe like 1-2% a year for 2010-2011 levels to today and we would be so much better off.

And before anyone says we only had reasonable housing prices because of bad job situation. Not exactly. We had worse unemployment situation April 2020 to October 2020 than 2008-2011 and home prices skyrocketed. A double whammy way way worse. And same with early 1980s stagflation far worse than the Global Financial Crisis. At least during GFC we had fairly priced housing (not undervalued nor overpriced by fair and reasonable) unlike the first 6 months of covid or the 1979 to 1982 stagflation where hosing prices were through the roof and/or did not decline form outrageously high levels already.

 

[K1052]

Also 'luxury' homes generally mean 'new' homes. Of course new homes are generally nicer than old homes! You never hear people argue that we should stop building new cars because they are more expensive than used cars. This is because that's a self-evidently stupid idea but somehow people don't understand the exact same logic holds for homes.

When laminate floors and base stainless steel appliances appear to be "luxury" it says more about the shittiness of the existing housing stock than anything.

 

[NWRMidnight]

I just noticed this conglomeration of stupidity and sour grapes.
Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.
Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

People not willing to work for low wages is not lazyiness. I bet you are in the camp that "people don't want to work" rather than facing the truth, which is employer's are not willing to pay adiquate wages.

 

[allisolm]

Apparently you don't understand that I didn't have a choice about paying into SSI. It's not voluntary, the money was taken from me.

You don't pay into SSI. It is NOT funded by the Social Security taxes one pays when working.

"Social Security benefits may be paid to you and certain members of your family if you are “insured,” meaning you worked long enough and paid Social Security taxes."

"SSI is financed by general funds of the U.S. Treasury. Social Security taxes do not fund the SSI program."

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-17-008.pdf

 

[Brainonska511]

When laminate floors and base stainless steel appliances appear to be "luxury" it says more about the shittiness of the existing housing stock than anything.

I'm moving soon for my spouse to start a new job, and when I was trying to find us a place, there was just so much garbage housing available. Lack of basic appliances like dishwashers or in-unit laundry; kitchens that lack even the shittiest of over-range microwaves to have some ventilation for cooking smoke; interiors that haven't been updated since the Reagan administration...

But let's not incentivize or enable building anything new (because someone, somewhere may make some money). So instead, we get these lazy landlords who can just squat on their properties with few capital improvements and make bank in a tight market.

 

[K1052]

Yes Americans are lazy. Have you noticed the panic over Trump deporting our peasant class? Who's going to pick our crops? Who's going to clean our homes and mow our lawns? Who's going to do every shit job were to important to do? The panic is amusing. Rather than working our way towards diabetes and a double bypass, we're going to have to start working, actually picking up heavy things.

This entire country was very literally built on the backs of slaves and immigrant workers.

 

[MrSquished]

This entire country was very literally built on the backs of slaves and immigrant workers.

@Greenman would look best with a shaved head in a Salvadorian concentration labor camp. It would at least give a little more hope that there is still justice in the world.

 

[K1052]

I'm moving soon for my spouse to start a new job, and when I was trying to find us a place, there was just so much garbage housing available. Lack of basic appliances like dishwashers or in-unit laundry; kitchens that lack even the shittiest of over-range microwaves to have some ventilation for cooking smoke; interiors that haven't been updated since the Reagan administration...

But let's not incentivize or enable building anything new (because someone, somewhere may make some money). So instead, we get these lazy landlords who can just squat on their properties with few capital improvements and make bank in a tight market.

Yes, if there was more competition landlords would actually have to upgrade their properties.

 

[fskimospy]

This entire country was very literally built on the backs of slaves and immigrant workers.

It's kind of amazing that it is now standard conservative orthodoxy that we should deport immigrants so their coveted fruit picking jobs can be taken up by child laborers and the elderly.

Grandma will be so excited for her new job in the fields!