How can cops do this?

[GoingUp]

We have a family friend up here at the University that I know. Well call him "Jeff" Jeff is in a student dorm. In the den of that dorm, they had a Christmas tree, so as a joke, Jeff and his friends put the tree in one of the girls rooms, so when she opened her door, there was a lighted Christmas tree. The Resident Assistant then procedes to call police for the "theft" of the tree.

The cops come to Jeffs room and ask if he knows about the tree. He says that he moved the tree as a joke. They then ask him if they can search his room, to which he replies No. The cops then arrest him for theft and proceed to search his room. There they find alcohol and write him a ticket for underage possession. The dont write him any tickets or charge him with theft though.

How can the cops even do this? They went through everything of his, they even poured out his vitamins and stuff to look for drugs. Isnt that a violation of his civil rights?


edited for a typo

 

[psydancerqt]

cops can do anything they want with a suspicision

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: psydancerqt
cops can do anything they want with a suspicision

And a warrant. (although this probably doesn't apply to dorms)

 

[freakflag]

Well, technically, the cops didn't do anything wrong except over-react. I blame the stupid, power tripping RA for blowing it out of proportion and calling the police in the first place. I, personally, would pee on his door knob.

 

[toekramp]

Originally posted by: freakflag
Well, technically, the cops didn't do anything wrong except over-react. I blame the stupid, power tripping RA for blowing it out of proportion and calling the police in the first place. I, personally, would pee on his door knob.

i agree with freakflag on all levels.

 

I don't think the cops had any need to search his room. What was their suspicion? They would find a stolen XMAS "" tree?
They were looking to bust some college kid on a completely non-related incident.

I'm not sure if the law treats dorm rooms different, or if the school has some disclosure about police searches unwarrented.
He should have never let the police IN the household in the first place.
Then when he refuses a search, then they need to produce a warrent with just cause.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: toekramp

Originally posted by: freakflag
Well, technically, the cops didn't do anything wrong except over-react. I blame the stupid, power tripping RA for blowing it out of proportion and calling the police in the first place. I, personally, would pee on his door knob.

i agree with freakflag on all levels.

Its a girl, but the cops went in looking for items they could write him up for. It had nothing to do with the fact of the "theft" of the tree.....

If officers go in with a search warrant lookin for drugs, they cant arrest you if they find a dead body, b/c all they are looking for is drugs... (obviously no search warrant was used here)

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: SammySon
I don't think the cops had any need to search his room. What was their suspicion? They would find a stolen XMAS "" tree?
They were looking to bust some college kid on a completely non-related incident.

I'm not sure if the law treats dorm rooms different, or if the school has some disclosure about police searches unwarrented.
He should have never let the police IN the household in the first place.
Then when he refuses a search, then they need to produce a warrent with just cause.

They were out in the hall I believe.

 

They had reasonable suspicion that there was something else going on in the room since Jeff took the Christmas tree, I guess. It might hold up in court, but it might not. I think the cops might have overreacted, but if Jeff was drunk or if the cops could plainly see the alcohol in his room then that's enough suspicion for me!

 

[C'DaleRider]

Actually, I think there is something that keeps police from searching in places a stolen item could not be.....for instance, if they were looking for a stolen television, they would have no call to open a 3"x2" box because it would be unreasonable to expect to find a television is something that small.

I'd have your friend contact someone who is in the legal profession.......he probably has a case against the unreasonable search.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: jumpr
They had reasonable suspicion that there was something else going on in the room since Jeff took the Christmas tree, I guess. It might hold up in court, but it might not. I think the cops might have overreacted, but if Jeff was drunk or if the cops could plainly see the alcohol in his room then that's enough suspicion for me!

The tree wasnt in his room, and the alcohol was hidden way under the desk. They had to go digging though his things to find it

 

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
If officers go in with a search warrant lookin for drugs, they cant arrest you if they find a dead body, b/c all they are looking for is drugs... (obviously no search warrant was used here)

Wrongo, Gobadgrs. If, in the course of a warrant search, the cops find a firearm or drugs or a body or something that they weren't initially looking for, they have every right to arrest you.

Do you honestly think on a drug raid, if the cops find unlicensed firearms, they must ignore them and only arrest the person on drug charges? Uh-uh.

 

[Legendary]

I believe when you sign up for dorm housing you implicitly agree to all police searches if the school believes it is warranted. I'm not too sure about that though, it just sounds familiar from orientation.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
If officers go in with a search warrant lookin for drugs, they cant arrest you if they find a dead body, b/c all they are looking for is drugs... (obviously no search warrant was used here)

Wrongo, Gobadgrs. If, in the course of a warrant search, the cops find a firearm or drugs or a body or something that they were looking for, they have every right to arrest you.

Do you honestly think on a drug raid, if the cops find unlicensed firearms, they must ignore them and only arrest the person on drug charges? Uh-uh.

From what I understand, they can only admit into evidence what they are expecting to find with a search warrant

 

They were out in the hall I believe.

Then he should have never let them enter the premise.

They had reasonable suspicion that there was something else going on in the room since Jeff took the Christmas tree, I guess. It might hold up in court, but it might not. I think the cops might have overreacted, but if Jeff was drunk or if the cops could plainly see the alcohol in his room then that's enough suspicion for me!

Resonable suspicion? Uh, riiiiiight. So, why don't they raid comedians houses all day?
I know that if a cop came up to me while I was having a barbque in my backyard, and asked to search the house I'd tell him absolutly not.
Does not matter if I'm drunk or not. Because I'm a drinker, and I party with my friends, there is a very strong possibility of marijuana being in my house.

So, because of that assumption, he has the right to search my house?
Please.

 

[Yossarian]

The cops can do anything they want. All you can do is try to sue them afterwards.

 

[SOFTWARE2ndComing]

kick the RA's a$$ for being stupid!

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Okay, everyone. Draw a little chalk line at your door. Don't step over it when there's police outside, and they don't step over it unless they're holding a search warrant.

- M4H

 

[GroundZero]

there is a stipulation in the law called arresting area.
if "jeff" was arrested for theft in his room, they have the legal right to search the room.
same as if they arrest you for something in your car, they can then search the car as it is the arresting area.
seems lame but it is perfectly legal. also i think that there are different rule involving dorms because of the contracts signed with the university in order to live in the dorm and the rules of conduct etc...

 

The cops can do anything they want. All you can do is try to sue them afterwards.

 

[Rogue]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs

Originally posted by: jumpr

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
If officers go in with a search warrant lookin for drugs, they cant arrest you if they find a dead body, b/c all they are looking for is drugs... (obviously no search warrant was used here)

Wrongo, Gobadgrs. If, in the course of a warrant search, the cops find a firearm or drugs or a body or something that they were looking for, they have every right to arrest you.

Do you honestly think on a drug raid, if the cops find unlicensed firearms, they must ignore them and only arrest the person on drug charges? Uh-uh.

From what I understand, they can only admit into evidence what they are expecting to find with a search warrant

You watch way too much TV cop shows my friend and I'm not talking COPS either. Do you really think that if they find a dead body on a drug warrant that they can't arrest you for that? C'mon. You're not this dumb are you? Police often fall into doing things that are "reasonable under the circumstances" and then must justify it in accordance with the law later. You've seen how thick the law books are for even sub-categories of the law, right? Still, even with entire libraries of books there is not a law on the books to cover every single thing that can happen. Finding a dead body in an area occupied by someone is immediate grounds to arrest them and conduct a "search incident to apprehension" of the premises. Even more so, if they were smart, they'd treat the body as though it was recently deceased and try to resuscitate it, further granting them rights to be all over the place finding other evidence. The law is not black and white, never was, never is.

Here's what probably happened and your friend didn't want to admit to it. Either A) he or the room smelled of alchohol leading to the suspicion on behalf of the officers or B) there were remnants of alcoholic beverage consumption in plain view. Either way, I'm fairly certain that a college dorm is considered private property, leaving how far the police can step over the line up to the school, not the attorney's office. If this had happened in his own home, I'd be the first one to tell you that his rights had been violated, but in a school dorm on private property, he doesn't have a lot of wiggle room. Granted, I do think that this dumb ass RA that called the cops for this should get a beat down, but that's another matter entirely.

 

[Wuffsunie]

Part of it is that the dorm is not his private property, it belongs to the school. And unlike apartments, I believe dorms are still considered primarily to belong to their schools. Thus, the school would have to authorize the search. But if they didn't authorize it the cops are still WAY over the line here. There was no probable cause for them searching his room, none at all. What they did shouldn't be legal. If your friend tries to contest this, he needs to check with the school's housing to see if they authorized the cops to search dorm rooms in general and/or his in specific. If housing was unaware the cops were doing that, they had no right to go though the place.

During a driving course I took we had a cop explaining probable cause in regards to what's in a car. If he sees drug paraphenalia on the passanger seat during a routine traffic stop he can look though the car. If he pulls you over and sees, say, a large, suspecious looking bag in the back of the car and you decline to let him look though it, he can't do jack about it. It could contain anything from AK-47s to dirty socks, and if he's got nothing beyond your refusal to let him look at it he has to take your word for it. Of course he'll likely try finding something else if he believes you're up to no good.

As for their charging him with the alcohol they found after, that was legal... assuming there was some kind of probable cause for them to search the room in the first place. Which I really believe they didn't.

Try checking around the law department, see if there are any professors that can advise. Campus ombusman would be another source to look at.

 

[PunDogg]

Originally posted by: freakflag
Well, technically, the cops didn't do anything wrong except over-react. I blame the stupid, power tripping RA for blowing it out of proportion and calling the police in the first place. I, personally, would pee on his door knob.

yeah i would try to make the RA pay for your vitsamins and stuff. get a lawyer, get one that doesn't collect unless you do. hehe

DOgg

 

[yellowperil]

Yep, check the housing agreement you signed when moving in. The school reserves a right to check it at any time. Many apartment leases are the same way.

 

[Savij]

I don't know if it applies in a dorm since different rules apply there, but if you're young looking and in this situation...no warrant ask for search you say "My daddy is a lawyer and told me never to allow a search."