How do you define homophobia?

[Angry Irishman]

Good. You are deluded, and ignorant.

So if someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle they are deluded and ignorant?

I'm tired of people who don't agree with your lifestyle as being deemed bigots and such.

bigotry is one thing, thinking that someone should adjust their morals is another.

Let me pose another question...should sexual orientation be taught in schools?

 

[dpodblood]

So if someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle they are deluded and ignorant?

I'm tired of people who don't agree with your lifestyle as being deemed bigots and such.

bigotry is one thing, thinking that someone should adjust their morals is another.

Let me pose another question...should sexual orientation be taught in schools?

Again; someone who believes "gay" is a lifestyle... And then you wonder why you are labeled as a bigot. I'm sorry, but in order for something to be considered a lifestyle it needs to be a choice. Being gay, straight, or bi-sexual is not a choice. It's just the way you are. But if you have a "moral" or religious aversion to homosexuality than I can see nobody is going to change that regardless of how illogical your view is.

 

[dpodblood]

I'm not gonna deal with the "immoral" issue, since I don't agree with most "moral issues" anyway, but being physically attracted to a member of your own sex IS NOT normal...something, somewhere in the brain just isn't "wired right." Gay people ARE abnormal. Does that make them BAD people? Hell no, most that I've met are pretty good people, but at the same time, they've all had problems far exceeding their sexual orientation.

Boomer; I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. There is no evidence to suggest that gay people aren't "wired right" or normal (whatever that means).

Also; just because a gay person is bi-polar, depressed, schizophrenic, or any other form of mental illness does not mean it was caused by their homosexuality. There are tons of straight people who have these disorders as well.

 

[roguerower]

Congrats, you've made my homophobe list.

Why is he a homophobe for pointing out the obvious? Being gay is unnatural because put quite simply, a gay couple can not naturally reproduce. From the beginning of time, nature has sought to create the best specimens through evolution and survival of the fittest and a gay couple will not procreate unless a third party is brought in. I do not mean this to be derogative or caustic response but it is fact.

Now if this makes me a homophobe in your eyes, you are the one who is unreasonable. If given the chance to vote on a piece of federal law that gave gays the EXACT same rights as heterosexuals, I'd sign my name in support without thinking. But don't think for a minute that just because you're in the minority you're allowed to call everyone else bigots and fear mongerers because it makes you feel better.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Again; someone who believes "gay" is a lifestyle... And then you wonder why you are labeled as a bigot. I'm sorry, but in order for something to be considered a lifestyle it needs to be a choice. Being gay, straight, or bi-sexual is not a choice. It's just the way you are. But if you have a "moral" or religious aversion to homosexuality than I can see nobody is going to change that regardless of how illogical your view is.

I can argue being gay is a lifestyle just as easily as you can say it is not. I just so happen to believe it is.

First of all no one has ever labeled me a bigot. I don't really care what someone's sexual preference is just don't label me a bigot or anyone else who doesn't morally agree with that lifestyle. And for God's sake don't think that it's OK to teach my kids that it's normal because biologically speaking it sure as shit is not.

I teach my kids morals not schools or anyone else for that matter. Do I think gay people are evil...no. Do I teach my kids that...no. Do I tell them it's natural and morally OK...no. I teach them tolerance but again don't lecture me or my family about how a matter of fact the gay lifestyle is...just because you say so.

Hate is a strong word and leads to things that are never good. I don't hate anyone...I just don't agree and don't expect everyone to agree with me. Bigotry goes both ways it seems.

 

[dpodblood]

In what way is it not normal? And furthermore; how do you define what normal behavior is? The only decent argument I have heard so far as to why homosexuality can't be considered normal because gay couples cannot reproduce. While I can understand that point of view, does that mean that straight couples who don't wish to conceive aren't normal as well? Perhaps I don't believe people who wear hats are normal because if our heads in fact needed shade nature would have provided a solution right? Human behavior is a very large spectrum. How can you prove what is normal?

 

[Angry Irishman]

Boomer; I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. There is no evidence to suggest that gay people aren't "wired right" or normal (whatever that means).

Also; just because a gay person is bi-polar, depressed, schizophrenic, or any other form of mental illness does not mean it was caused by their homosexuality. There are tons of straight people who have these disorders as well.

On the flip side there is no conclusive evidence that indicates that homosexuality is normal...this is a debate that could go on forever.

I do agree with your second statement...plenty of afflicted straight folks as well.

 

[Angry Irishman]

In what way is it not normal? And furthermore; how do you define what normal behavior is? The only decent argument I have heard so far as to why homosexuality can't be considered normal because gay couples cannot reproduce. While I can understand that point of view, does that mean that straight couples who don't wish to conceive aren't normal as well? Perhaps I don't believe people who wear hats are normal because if our heads in fact needed shade nature would have provided a solution right? Human behavior is a very large spectrum. How can you prove what is normal?

Well procreation as far as mammals are concerned is pretty straight forward....and normal...there's only one way to do it and it's not with two of the same sex.

I'm not sure what you're fishing for here.

 

[dpodblood]

Well procreation as far as mammals are concerned is pretty straight forward....and normal...there's only one way to do it and it's not with two of the same sex.

I'm not sure what you're fishing for here.

I apologize for calling you a bigot earlier. It seems like you have a healthy enough respect for others, although I don't agree with your point of view, at least you are not teaching your children to hate others for being different.

Now; the point I am trying to make is that procreation is not the only purpose for human relationships. We need each other as companions, and not simply as mating partners. If that were the case "normal" would be go around impregnating as many women as possible, as quickly as possible. So if procreation is not the only purpose or relationships, than why is homosexuality not normal (after all we see homosexual behavior in animals as well)? How would it be any more abnormal than couples who chose not to have children?

 

[tcsenter]

I love me some gay peoples.

 

[Platypus]

Why do gays, lesbians, and the other "non-traditional" sexual oriented folks have so many mental problems?

It seems like MOST are on some kind of drug for whatever psychosis they have. I don't begin to know all of the mental defects, bi-polar, autism, aspergers, etc., but it seems like the GLBT community is awash in those kinds of mental problems.

What ever happened to "Gay" meaning "happy?"

(very few gay people seem to be "happy."

Sigh. This is a troll thread and there's no possible way someone like you would ever change their mind on the topic anyway, so it seems entirely pointless to even bother with this reply. It is entirely against my better judgment to even post a reply to this thread. But I feel like the question should be answered so that maybe someone younger and more open to change can make things better for the next generation.

The answer to your question is quite simple. Try living your entire life post puberty realizing that you are different from everyone else and there's absolutely fuck-all you can do to change it. It goes beyond being different though, it is the fact that you are made to feel shamed or guilty for what you are when you had no say in the matter. It is being constantly reminded that you are not welcome by an alarming amount of people. For most, it starts as living a lie. Two lives, the lines between them start to blur after a while and you stop knowing what is real and what isn't anymore. You start to become so good at lying that it feels almost impossible to be real with anyone anymore. The lie grows until you cant take it anymore and then you basically have to tell your friends and family that you are gay. Most take it well if you're lucky, some don't. Some never want to talk to you again.

Then you get to tackle the next phase.. how do you bring it up to people without wearing it on your sleeve? Guys instantly assume they can just talk to me about some girls tits or how nice some girl's ass looks or how great that skirt looks or whatever. What do you say? Sorry guys that shit does nothing for me? Do I follow it up with, wow I love it when guys wear sweatpants? No.. you basically have to keep quiet. How do you deal with coworkers at a new job? How do you not be 'gay drew' instead of just 'drew'? Then you realize it's easier to play along then it is to just be silent and non participating. Then you are constantly reminded that you are different and have no community to be a part of. I am forced to straddle the line between the two 'scenes,' feeling like I belong to neither. I can't relate to straight guys' behavior towards women and I cannot tolerate being around effeminate gays. It is incredibly hard to find people to be yourself around, to relate to others. You just basically live in this bubble. Not all gay people go through that, but a lot do. There is no roadmap to being gay, and in a country like this where I don't even feel like I belong, it tends to make you think really hard about what the fuck the point even is to any of it. I'm a second class citizen in my own country, how can I expect anyone to respect me when that kind of example has been set.

I kind of feel torn on the whole 'it gets better' campaign... because to me, better isn't the word I would have chosen. More like different. Yes some things get better, you aren't as blatantly teased for being the person you were born to be, but you still feel the isolation. You still have people telling you that your lifestyle is wrong, that it's a choice, that you are not as good as someone else. Even if it's not in so many words, the fact that I cannot marry my partner of 2.5 years is enough of a message to say: you're not welcome here, you are not equal.

If you want to continue hating on it, which you will despite your always interesting wording, go ahead. Let's just hope the next generation does a little better than yours has. So the short answer to your question, walk a mile in my shoes and tell me that you'd be happy about the life you were dealt.

 

[dpodblood]

Wow platypus that's quite the post. While I do things are getting better for gays overall, of course like all cultural shifts, change is slow, and you may not be treated as an equal by all in your lifetime. But, at least by sharing your story you are doing your part to help people realize gay people are just like everyone else, and there is nothing wrong with them. To me someones sexual orientation has no affect whatsoever on how I would treat them. We could hang out, have a beer, talk about whatever and I am going to treat you the same regardless of if you are gay, straight, bi, or transgender.

 

[HAL9000]

hence my stepped degrees of dislike.

but it's okay neckbeard, regardless of your sexual orientation, i hate you.

So do you dislike the infertile?

So if someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle they are deluded and ignorant?

I'm tired of people who don't agree with your lifestyle as being deemed bigots and such.

bigotry is one thing, thinking that someone should adjust their morals is another.

Let me pose another question...should sexual orientation be taught in schools?

It's not because he "doesn't agree with my life stye" it's because he is ignorant in that he cannot comprehend the complexity of human sexuality, and has drawn his own conclusions classifying everyone who has a different sexual orientation to him as mentally ill. People are free to disagree with me, but not to tell my I am ill because I'm different from them.

Also sexual orientation should be discussed in school, but if you mean they should teach people to be of a specific orientation then obviously my answer is no.

 

[HAL9000]

Why is he a homophobe for pointing out the obvious? Being gay is unnatural because put quite simply, a gay couple can not naturally reproduce. From the beginning of time, nature has sought to create the best specimens through evolution and survival of the fittest and a gay couple will not procreate unless a third party is brought in. I do not mean this to be derogative or caustic response but it is fact.

Now if this makes me a homophobe in your eyes, you are the one who is unreasonable. If given the chance to vote on a piece of federal law that gave gays the EXACT same rights as heterosexuals, I'd sign my name in support without thinking. But don't think for a minute that just because you're in the minority you're allowed to call everyone else bigots and fear mongerers because it makes you feel better.

You are implying that "normal" is using our bodies for their designed purpose, firstly we have no designed purpose, secondly there is no normal, everyone is born different, thirdly by this logic infertile people are abnormal.

I don't believe you are a homophobe because you are not trying to tell me that my "abnormal" sexual orientation must be the result of a mental health defect, and that bisexuality doesn't exist, or that I'm deluding myself into thinking I'm bisexual and must be gay. (unlike BoomerD)

If you are defining abnormal as something that the majority aren't then yes being gay is abnormal, Incidentally so is being caucasian as a far bigger majority of people on the planet are chinese in their ethnicity.

 

[dpodblood]

So if someone doesn't agree with your lifestyle they are deluded and ignorant?

I'm tired of people who don't agree with your lifestyle as being deemed bigots and such.

bigotry is one thing, thinking that someone should adjust their morals is another.

Let me pose another question...should sexual orientation be taught in schools?

I was also unclear on what your meant by this. Could you clarify? Do you mean people should be taught to be straight, or that they should be taught about different orientations?

If the second option; than yes I think kids should be taught about it in school. They are taught about other aspects of relationships, and sexuality. Why not this?

 

[HAL9000]

On the flip side there is no conclusive evidence that indicates that homosexuality is normal...this is a debate that could go on forever.

I do agree with your second statement...plenty of afflicted straight folks as well.

Homosexuality has been a part of human society for thousands of years, if we were in ancient greece then strict heterosexuality would be abnormal. I'm bisexual does that make me less "abnormal" than gay people in your eyes?

 

[HAL9000]

I was also unclear on what your meant by this. Could you clarify? Do you mean people should be taught to be straight, or that they should be taught about different orientations?

If the second option; than yes I think kids should be taught about it in school. They are taught about other aspects of relationships, and sexuality. Why not this?

I was wondering this

 

[HAL9000]

I can argue being gay is a lifestyle just as easily as you can say it is not. I just so happen to believe it is.

First of all no one has ever labeled me a bigot. I don't really care what someone's sexual preference is just don't label me a bigot or anyone else who doesn't morally agree with that lifestyle. And for God's sake don't think that it's OK to teach my kids that it's normal because biologically speaking it sure as shit is not.

I teach my kids morals not schools or anyone else for that matter. Do I think gay people are evil...no. Do I teach my kids that...no. Do I tell them it's natural and morally OK...no. I teach them tolerance but again don't lecture me or my family about how a matter of fact the gay lifestyle is...just because you say so.

Hate is a strong word and leads to things that are never good. I don't hate anyone...I just don't agree and don't expect everyone to agree with me. Bigotry goes both ways it seems.

Biologically speaking we were never meant to wear glasses or have open heart surgery or a liver transplant, should we stop teaching those? Death is natural, postponing death by swapping organs with someone else isn't. Just because our bodies were not designed to do something (which is irrelevant anyway as we were't designed at all) doesn't mean we are doing something wrong or unnatural with them.

Should morality be taught at school? On a basic level yes. Should people be taught that something is wrong because it is unnatural at school? No. People should be taught facts, and the fact is gay people exist, morals and ethics shouldn't necessarily come into it when being taught about it.

It should be "Sex education: Week 1: Straight Sex. Week 2: Gay Sex" no ethics, just facts.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

It's a misnomer.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Being gay is unnatural because put quite simply, a gay couple can not naturally reproduce. From the beginning of time, nature has sought to create the best specimens through evolution and survival of the fittest and a gay couple will not procreate unless a third party is brought in. I do not mean this to be derogative or caustic response but it is fact.

You, sir, need a refresher lesson in biology. There are tons of species that have very few reproducing members. Worker ants and drone bees are a prime example. Most beta males in wolf packs never reproduce, most pack rodent only have one alpha male that has mating rights with the harem. There are even stranger configurations with non-sexual members.
Next nature does not ‘seek’ anything. Natural selection is not goal oriented. Like so many people you have the entire idea backwards. Natural selection is a byproduct of a statistical exclusionary process, it does not try to kill off ‘unfit’ members of a species, they are simply statistically more likely to die and therefore the more fit have a longer time to reproduce. It tells us nothing about the ones that didn't reproduce.

Now if this makes me a homophobe in your eyes, you are the one who is unreasonable.

Maybe you are not a homophobe, maybe you are just ignorant.

I can argue being gay is a lifestyle just as easily as you can say it is not. I just so happen to believe it is.
First of all no one has ever labeled me a bigot.

I'm labeling you a bigot right now. You, sir, are a bigot. By deciding that you do not want to pay attention to all the science and forming an opinion contrary to what is provable simply because you do not like what the science is telling us, you label yourself a bigot.

I don't really care what someone's sexual preference is just don't label me a bigot or anyone else who doesn't morally agree with that lifestyle. And for God's sake don't think that it's OK to teach my kids that it's normal because biologically speaking it sure as shit is not.

Lets handle this 'normal' business right now. Normal means to fall on the spectrum of expected behavior, or to fit an expected pattern. Since we see a standard percentage (5-15 percent) of all animals, across all species, are homosexual, then homosexuality is indeed a normal behavior, it is simply not an average behavior.

Should morality be taught at school? On a basic level yes. Should people be taught that something is wrong because it is unnatural at school? No. People should be taught facts, and the fact is gay people exist, morals and ethics shouldn't necessarily come into it when being taught about it.

It should be "Sex education: Week 1: Straight Sex. Week 2: Gay Sex" no ethics, just facts.

Science should be taught in school. Factual information should be taught in school. Practical applictation should be taught in school. Morals should not. I can make an argument that diffrent ethical principals should be taught, not as something that is right or wrong, but as something that is in use in the real world.

 

[dpodblood]

snip.

One of the best posts I've read all day. :thumbsup:

 

[zinfamous]

I'm not gonna deal with the "immoral" issue, since I don't agree with most "moral issues" anyway, but being physically attracted to a member of your own sex IS NOT normal...something, somewhere in the brain just isn't "wired right." Gay people ARE abnormal. Does that make them BAD people? Hell no, most that I've met are pretty good people, but at the same time, they've all had problems far exceeding their sexual orientation.

"normal" is always a matter of perspective. When biology is concerned, it doesn't really work from a perspective of "the majority is X" if you ask me.

If homosexuality is abnormal, then it is no more abnormal than asexuality (yes, there are people who have zero interest in sex), bi-polar disorder, "psycopathic" disorder (surprising large number of highly successful individuals fit the DSM diagnosis for this), and various other genetic/psychosis determined behaviors.

It seems that the more we learn about brain hard-wiring and genetic fiddling, the less we have a grasp on what is "normal" when we consider the human condition. it's come to the point where the vast majority of us are diagnosable, to some degree, with some form of disorder that was previously unknown.

note: I'm not saying that homosexuality is a disorder. far from it. It is simply what it is. It is no different than heterosexuality. Who knows what the numbers would be if everyone were more honest and public with themselves, but I can only guess that is certainly the minority, but there is nothing from an evolutionary perspective that precludes the loss of homosexuality.

 

[dpodblood]

To further that point, why do we care so much what is normal? A more important question is "is it harmful"? The answer is no. What someone else does in the bedroom has no affect on my life.

 

[HAL9000]

Science should be taught in school. Factual information should be taught in school. Practical applictation should be taught in school. Morals should not. I can make an argument that diffrent ethical principals should be taught, not as something that is right or wrong, but as something that is in use in the real world.

Agreed. I'm all for educating children in different moral/ ethical theory, utilitarianism etc. As well as philosophy, but teaching moral absolutes is wrong. Everyone should make up their own mind on morality, obviously parents need to teach their children morality, but that will obviously be relative to the parents.

To further that point, why do we care so much what is normal? A more important question is "is it harmful"? The answer is no. What someone else does in the bedroom has no affect on my life.

If you're talking about homosexuality, I agree, if you are talking about homophobia I disagree, it is contagious amongst the ignorant or unintelligent.

 

[jonks]

You, sir, need a refresher lesson in biology.

Great post. But refresher implies an original exposure. I doubt it.