I am a Christian

[Gamingphreek]

That was an absolutely incredible statement of faith. You probably define peoples lives in so many ways with that set of beliefs.

I would have to say, that I, while a very devout Christian, still have a long way to grow in my faith. In HS, I was very active in Youth Group and went to church every day. In college, I briefly went to InterVarsity Christian Fellowship the first semester. In addition, I didn't go to church on Sundays. Over Winter Break it hit me and I made a vow to not let anything like that happen again, and that I want to grow more in my faith. Since then, I have become extremely involved in IV, I am going to weekly Bible Studies, I am going on retreats, I am applying for Small Group Leader next year, and, above all, I have been going to Church regularly, every Sunday.

Despite what everyone says, in College, I feel that I have grown in my faith more than any other time period in my life.

I also share your views on people who have been hounded by Evangelists. Carrying an open mind works both ways. Not only that, just because they are not Christian does not make them in any way shape or form inferior to me because of differing beliefs. I, like you, would like to sincerely apologize to those that have experienced this.

I would also like to apologize for those who have seen people living the Christian stereotype in their every day lives. I believe dc Talk said it best:
The greatest single cause of Atheism in the world today, is Christians. Who acknowledge things with their lips- they walk out the door and deny it by their lifestyles... -dc Talk
When discussing religion with a friend who is not Christian, and they tell me what their previous experiences were, I am so unbelievably sad. I cannot apologize enough to them- and I make every effort to let them know that they should not judge the faith based on those people.

Recently, my friend has been discussing the reason he is Agnostic. He talks of things, such as, Christians "tricking him" into going to bible study, Christians that claim works alone get you to heaven, Christians, who like before, deny their faith by their lifestyles, Christians who make excuses for past wrong doings, Christians who believed that since he wasn't he was unclean (I could go on and on). My friends and I have prayed long and hard about it. What is truly amazing though, is after all of these talks, while still not a Christian, he has now begun seeking more information on the faith. He comes to us to ask questions, and, though he denies it, I believe he is starting to see that not all Christians fit the stereotypes and they he may want to look more into the religion.

I, for the same reasons as you do not support abortion. On the contrary, I do support the War in Iraq. While I believe, it was handled wrong, I believe the cause was justified.

Finally, like other Christians, I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. I believe that I can only get to heaven through him, and by asking for forgiveness for the sin I commit every day.

-Kevin

I'm sure I have forgotten a great deal of things, and that my post is not nearly as well thought out as HotChics, but I hope I touched on at least the very basic things.

 

[tealk]

Very well said. Bless you Brother!

 

[3NF]

http://www.rael.org

If you read Rael's book, you'll see that he says that he and Jesus have the same father, Yahweh

 

[slatr]

Originally posted by: uhohs

Originally posted by: dartworth
speaking in tongues...mouth full of shlt...what's the difference...


oh BTW...you should try blogger.com next time...

:roll:

Klassy

Corrected....

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

 

[slatr]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: Luthien
Honest post but regardless it is still offensive to everyone outside your belief system and likely half the christians would say your going to hell yourself, lol. Catch them young and they will follow you forever...

What is offensive, particularly? My intent wasn't to offend by saying what I think. Nothing in my post is a conversion attempt; if it was, I would understand some people being offended.

Don't worry about it. Some people LIVE to be offended. It is like a hobby to them. They offend me with their closed minds. They won't believe anything they can't see or touch themselves. If you see or experience something, you are crazy. It won't hit home until it all comes barreling down and slaps them in the face...saying wake up, here I am.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Isaiah 64:6
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

So yep, good works dont get you to heaven, its your faith.

Yes, but the problem is, you can't develop the faith necessary without doing the work. Thus the reason faith without works is dead.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Isaiah 64:6
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

So yep, good works dont get you to heaven, its your faith.

Yes, but the problem is, you can't develop the faith necessary without doing the work. Thus the reason faith without works is dead.

I think its the other way around - yes faith without works is dead. But thats a reference to how works is a necessary external sign, or fruit, of your faith, and it works to to edify the doer. But the faith has to come first.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Isaiah 64:6
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

So yep, good works dont get you to heaven, its your faith.

Yes, but the problem is, you can't develop the faith necessary without doing the work. Thus the reason faith without works is dead.

I think its the other way around - yes faith without works is dead. But thats a reference to how works is a necessary external sign, or fruit, of your faith, and it works to to edify the doer. But the faith has to come first.

I didn't mean to imply that faith doesn't come first. What I was trying to say is that the faith isn't developed, or cultivated, to an efficient level without the work. Thus, if the faith we have is not followed by works, our faith is dead.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Isaiah 64:6
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

So yep, good works dont get you to heaven, its your faith.

Yes, but the problem is, you can't develop the faith necessary without doing the work. Thus the reason faith without works is dead.

I think its the other way around - yes faith without works is dead. But thats a reference to how works is a necessary external sign, or fruit, of your faith, and it works to to edify the doer. But the faith has to come first.

I didn't mean to imply that faith doesn't come first. What I was trying to say is that the faith isn't developed, or cultivated, to an efficient level without the work. Thus, if the faith we have is not followed by works, our faith is dead.

This is true. Anything else would be dead faith or godless work...

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

I think what may be confusing is misrepresenting the opportunity of all people to hear the gospel with death bed repentance. There is a very big difference. All people will have the opportunity to hear the gospel, but if you turn it down while on the Earth, that's it. There's no second chance in Heaven.

There is one main purpose to coming here that all people will fulfill, and that's gaining a body. Regardless of how we conduct ourselves here, we will have a body in the life to come. However, the other purposes of life will not be fulfilled automatically. The first chapter of Genesis tell us part to the purpose of life is to 1) learn the good from the evil, 2) have joy, 3) reproduce, and 4) prove worthy to return to God. All of these will be available to all people at some point in time, whether in this life or the life to come.

I think people make a mistake in believing that immediately after death you will be surrounded by angel and Heavenly beings and it will be very easy and simple to know what is true and right. This is not the case. The location reserved for those who have not heard or accepted the gospel prior to Judgment day was called a prison. Now I don't think this prison is like the local pen, but it definitely won't be the nice, beautiful, proving God exist type of place.

For instance, I would say it would probably be almost exactly as the Earth is now. People may think rather than dying, they have just been reincarnated. Therefore, there's nothing that says "God exist and you must now worship him". So when you hear the gospel there, what is going to make you any more desirous to accept it then as apposed to now? The goal isn't to make it easier for people to accept the gospel. It's only to ensure everyone has the opportunity.

Does that make sense?

 

[tealk]

Ohh BTW - I am a christian too Hotchic......have you guessed it yet?

 

[Gamingphreek]

EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

The fact is that people use that when they are not qualified to answer the question, which, in turn leads to the stereo type. Despite this, there are some things that we must believe through faith- Things that simply wont be answered until then.

If you believe it is a cop-out, then you have been overexposed to those who fall under the Christian stereotype. I would very much like to give a shot at answering any questions you have. If I don't know the answer, I would be more than happy to investigate it and get back to you ASAP. (I promise I would use a "Wait and see response" unless you ask something REALLY far out there and complex )

-Kevin

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

Very good points, ThePresence. I have indeed referred to my faith as a copout here myself on these forums on numerous occasions. But there is no persuasion to the faith by me nor anyone else. Any attempt we make at explaining is based upon a compromise or misunderstanding of that doctrine, or wishful thinking. But if the Lord brings you to seek, these words may help plant a seed.

I can explain to you how I believed if anyone cares to know. I was more frustratingly inquisitive than anyone I know, and read up on all the science and religion books and stuff - to no avail. Then I gave up and years later, within the span of a few months God put me on the right path. Looking at my journals I could not believe how I was when I was in high school and college just 5-8 years ago.

I only know of one thing a non-Christian can do if they are genuine, not cynical, and are curious about the possibility of God.

Pray with utmost humility that God convicts you to the depths of your soul, the depravity of your sinful nature - and bring you to repentance. If this is beneath you, perhaps this isn't the time...

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

Very good points, ThePresence. I have indeed referred to my faith as a copout here myself on these forums on numerous occasions. But there is no persuasion to the faith by me nor anyone else. Any attempt we make at explaining is based upon a compromise or misunderstanding of that doctrine, or wishful thinking. But if the Lord brings you to seek, these words may help plant a seed.

I can explain to you how I believed if anyone cares to know. I was more frustratingly inquisitive than anyone I know, and read up on all the science and religion books and stuff - to no avail. Then I gave up and years later, within the span of a few months God put me on the right path. Looking at my journals I could not believe how I was when I was in high school and college just 5-8 years ago.

I only know of one thing a non-Christian can do if they are genuine, not cynical, and are curious about the possibility of God.

Pray with utmost humility that God convicts you to the depths of your soul, the depravity of your sinful nature - and bring you to repentance. If this is beneath you, perhaps this isn't the time...

Ahhh, I think you misunderstand my intentions here. I am not on a search for spirituality. On the contrary, I am quite comfortable with my beliefs. I just genuinely wanted to know how Christians answer this question. It seems to me now, after several attempts at answering it by several forum members that there is no answer to this question in Christianity. I know that would bother me if I were a Christian.
But it's fine, it's all I really wanted to know.
I appreciate your time and honesty.

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

Very good points, ThePresence. I have indeed referred to my faith as a copout here myself on these forums on numerous occasions. But there is no persuasion to the faith by me nor anyone else. Any attempt we make at explaining is based upon a compromise or misunderstanding of that doctrine, or wishful thinking. But if the Lord brings you to seek, these words may help plant a seed.

I can explain to you how I believed if anyone cares to know. I was more frustratingly inquisitive than anyone I know, and read up on all the science and religion books and stuff - to no avail. Then I gave up and years later, within the span of a few months God put me on the right path. Looking at my journals I could not believe how I was when I was in high school and college just 5-8 years ago.

I only know of one thing a non-Christian can do if they are genuine, not cynical, and are curious about the possibility of God.

Pray with utmost humility that God convicts you to the depths of your soul, the depravity of your sinful nature - and bring you to repentance. If this is beneath you, perhaps this isn't the time...

Ahhh, I think you misunderstand my intentions here. I am not on a search for spirituality. On the contrary, I am quite comfortable with my beliefs. I just genuinely wanted to know how Christians answer this question. It seems to me now, after several attempts at answering it by several forum members that there is no answer to this question in Christianity. I know that would bother me if I were a Christian.
But it's fine, it's all I really wanted to know.
I appreciate your time and honesty.

Thats ok. All I ask is that if you ever quote me as representative of my faith, that its clear what my use of "copout" refers to.

I do not believe my faith is a copout. Indeed I have devoted my life to trying to humbly live and seek and serve the Lord - the operative word is trying.

But I do see how the world will think its a copout, because I am not capable of persuading anyone to the faith with knowledge of any kind - spiritual or otherwise. Only God can, and thats how He calls His elect.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

Very good points, ThePresence. I have indeed referred to my faith as a copout here myself on these forums on numerous occasions. But there is no persuasion to the faith by me nor anyone else. Any attempt we make at explaining is based upon a compromise or misunderstanding of that doctrine, or wishful thinking. But if the Lord brings you to seek, these words may help plant a seed.

I can explain to you how I believed if anyone cares to know. I was more frustratingly inquisitive than anyone I know, and read up on all the science and religion books and stuff - to no avail. Then I gave up and years later, within the span of a few months God put me on the right path. Looking at my journals I could not believe how I was when I was in high school and college just 5-8 years ago.

I only know of one thing a non-Christian can do if they are genuine, not cynical, and are curious about the possibility of God.

Pray with utmost humility that God convicts you to the depths of your soul, the depravity of your sinful nature - and bring you to repentance. If this is beneath you, perhaps this isn't the time...

Ahhh, I think you misunderstand my intentions here. I am not on a search for spirituality. On the contrary, I am quite comfortable with my beliefs. I just genuinely wanted to know how Christians answer this question. It seems to me now, after several attempts at answering it by several forum members that there is no answer to this question in Christianity. I know that would bother me if I were a Christian.
But it's fine, it's all I really wanted to know.
I appreciate your time and honesty.

Thats ok. All I ask is that if you ever quote me as representative of my faith, that its clear what my use of "copout" refers to.

I do not believe my faith is a copout. Indeed I have devoted my life to trying to humbly live and seek and serve the Lord - the operative word is trying.

But I do see how the world will think its a copout, because I am not capable of persuading anyone to the faith with knowledge of any kind - spiritual or otherwise. Only God can, and thats how He calls His elect.

Understood.

 

[compuwiz1]

Wow!

Sister, you have made a terrific thread here. I am lost, and trying to be found.

Coincidently, I've been out of work for a month now, getting really scared. I know the athiests will not help me this time.

Tonight, a friend, came to town. This is my first boss in the automotive business...the last person I expected to call me last night. It was like we never left. He said he was in town, and asked if I would like to go to dinner. He offered me a job.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Wow!

Sister, you have made a terrific thread here. I am lost, and trying to be found.

Coincidently, I've been out of work for a month now, getting really scared. I know the athiests will not help me this time.

Tonight, a friend, came to town. This is my first boss in the automotive business...the last person I expected to call me last night. It was like we never left. He said he was in town, and asked if I would like to go to dinner. He offered me a job.

That is really incredible. Congratulations!!!!

This is a religious thread so i guess it I can say this without getting torched. God works in mysterious ways

-Kevin

 

[busmaster11]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: busmaster11

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: thepd7
In reference to your question thepresence:

This has been a burden on my heart as a Christian as well.

The answer that I have come to and the answer most of the pastors I have asked about it have come to is this:

God is mercy and God is love: we know this from the Bible
Therefore from the situation you have described (jungle people who live their lives isolate, never hearing the word of Jesus) will at some point in time (very possibly after death) be told about Jesus and if they then repent and ask for forgiveness then they will be saved. I can't completely comprehend how this could happen exactly since I think that if I was dead and someone was telling me about Jesus I would most certainly say yes but I believe that will happen in the same way I believe children under the age of accountability go to heaven (another opinion for another time).

Thanks for your answer.
Someone else was saying something similiar earlier in the thread.
My problem with this answer is, If the choice is given after death what then is the point of life?

That question, ThePresence, is exactly why the Lord does not answer all our questions here on Earth. Every answer we get leads to another question. We are supposed to be separated from God by our sin, and given the Word and the Spirit to seek and live by. We will not know all the answers to our burning questions until we walk intimately with Him in heaven.

We are called now to live our lives as we see fit - be it to follow Him or not. We are not given the option of having all the answers before we decide in our own wisdom like we were buying a used car... Doing so would leave no room for faith, which is what the righteous live by.

So basically what you're saying is, believe just because. Any questions about why someone should believe will eventually be answered after death. Don't you see the paradox in that? It's one thing if it's a perephial question, but this glaring question is something which would cause one not to believe. Why then would a level-headed person believe?
And when you say if you knew the answer to this there would be no room for faith, I have some problems with that as well.
Firstly, you and a few others attempted to answer it earlier, and I assume they all consider themselves faithful.
Secondly this topic is not the end-all of Christian dogma. Even if someone knew the answer to this question, it would still require a lot of faith to be a Christian. It just might make someone more comfortable with it.
EDIT: And lastly, it does seem like a cop-out. Any religion can answer any question you may have about it in the same manner. You'll find out after you die, for now just believe.

Very good points, ThePresence. I have indeed referred to my faith as a copout here myself on these forums on numerous occasions. But there is no persuasion to the faith by me nor anyone else. Any attempt we make at explaining is based upon a compromise or misunderstanding of that doctrine, or wishful thinking. But if the Lord brings you to seek, these words may help plant a seed.

I can explain to you how I believed if anyone cares to know. I was more frustratingly inquisitive than anyone I know, and read up on all the science and religion books and stuff - to no avail. Then I gave up and years later, within the span of a few months God put me on the right path. Looking at my journals I could not believe how I was when I was in high school and college just 5-8 years ago.

I only know of one thing a non-Christian can do if they are genuine, not cynical, and are curious about the possibility of God.

Pray with utmost humility that God convicts you to the depths of your soul, the depravity of your sinful nature - and bring you to repentance. If this is beneath you, perhaps this isn't the time...

Ahhh, I think you misunderstand my intentions here. I am not on a search for spirituality. On the contrary, I am quite comfortable with my beliefs. I just genuinely wanted to know how Christians answer this question. It seems to me now, after several attempts at answering it by several forum members that there is no answer to this question in Christianity. I know that would bother me if I were a Christian.
But it's fine, it's all I really wanted to know.
I appreciate your time and honesty.

Thats ok. All I ask is that if you ever quote me as representative of my faith, that its clear what my use of "copout" refers to.

I do not believe my faith is a copout. Indeed I have devoted my life to trying to humbly live and seek and serve the Lord - the operative word is trying.

But I do see how the world will think its a copout, because I am not capable of persuading anyone to the faith with knowledge of any kind - spiritual or otherwise. Only God can, and thats how He calls His elect.

Understood.

One last thing I want to qualify, and I know this is not something you'll find important.

Obviously I believe in evangelism and the great commission. When I said there's no persuasion to the faith, I don't mean we shouldn't. That was more directed at those who know about Jesus and refuses to accept Him as Savior and Lord.

I believe for those people, they are hardened toward God and we cannot bring enough knowledge and reason to the table to convert them. Wishful thinking would have us keep trying.

However, it is the responsibility of the believers to spread that word to the world - namely where His Word hasn't been preached before. We do so by praying beforehand that God will send His Spirit before us, and to preach a sound understanding of the Gospel and of repentance. In no circumstance are we called to justify Him through science, archaeology or other empirical evidence.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Wow!

Sister, you have made a terrific thread here. I am lost, and trying to be found.

Coincidently, I've been out of work for a month now, getting really scared. I know the athiests will not help me this time.

Tonight, a friend, came to town. This is my first boss in the automotive business...the last person I expected to call me last night. It was like we never left. He said he was in town, and asked if I would like to go to dinner. He offered me a job.

That is really incredible. Congratulations!!!!

This is a religious thread so i guess it I can say this without getting torched. God works in mysterious ways

-Kevin

Amen, I give God my thanks for your fortune.

On another note, did you hear about Mrs. Edwards? Many will call it coincidence, but I find the cracked rib to be a fortune of God.

Others will believe what they will, but I hold firm in my belief.

 

[3NF]

I feel it is my responsibility to spread this message,

http://www.rael.org

I didn't grow up in a religious family so I wasn't brainwashed and conditioned as a child to believe in any one particular faith. As an adult, like many others, I want to understand our origin. I flat out don't believe in evolution because of the beauty and complexity of life around me - Intelligent Design.

So was it God or Aliens? When I first read Rael's book I was overcome with a feeling of understanding I can't even describe. It touched on points that I always thought about prior to first reading it.

1. Life was genetically engineered by aliens. Immortality can one day be achieved through science. Cloning the body and transferring the memory from the old body to the new. Sounds like science fiction now, but I truly believe it will happen one day.

2. There is a switch somewhere in our body that controls aging, or perhaps it's coded into our genetic instructions. According to Rael's book, this is true and there is a mechanism (surgical procedure) that can allow us to live 10 times longer than we do. It explains why some of the folks in the Bible lived to close to a 1000 years.

3. As a society, we can completely function adequately without the use of money. Someday, science will allow us to create life (robots) that can perform the meaningless tasks in life that no one should have to do, like selling sandwiches, collecting trash, etc. Life should be about thinking, being creative, and loving one another unconditionally. It should not be about living to exist. Through science & love, it is possible that man can create "heaven". Why do we need to go to some cloud?

4. Mankind will gut himself in the end. I used to say this jokingly all the time, and according to Rael's book, the Elohim give us a 1% chance of not destroying ourself. We can't possibly move forward if we keep turning on ourselves.

5. Aliens are not evil. We see all these movies about aliens coming to wipe out the planet. While it's enjoyable and fun to watch, it isn't very likely. I used to say to myself, any species that has evolved to the point of interstellar travel is NOT likely to be evil. If they were evil, they would have killed themselves long before reaching that level of technology.

6. Homosexuality is NORMAL. I am not gay myself, but I will never look down upon anyone who is. It is genetic, just as the color of your skin, the type of hair you have, etc. We have leaders today, religious leaders, who say it is immoral. How stupid!

I could go on, but I'll stop When I read it I couldn't believe there were people out there who think like me (Raelians). In my opinion, this book offers far more hope for humanity than the interpretation of the bible today and the other organized religions can provide.

As an adult, this books makes far more sense than any Christian interpretation of the bible. Convince me - why should I believe Christianity over Raelianism?

 

[tealk]

Just plain garbage this last post is/was. WOW.....I dont call many people crazy...but you and that book are pretty close.