I am a Christian

[shoRunner]

i'd have to say i hold similar beliefs to the OP. Not all churches are that crazy too...check out Mars Hill they're pretty normal (or as close as I've seen), and hey the pastor once preached on the goodness of beer. Can't hate that now can ya?

 

[dyn2nvu]

What if a kid is born in a jungle and raised by a family in the jungle? With no tv or any other media, just hunting, playing with family and all the other basic human stuff. Will that kid goto hell because the kid didn't believe in God? How would the kid know about hell or God? The kid wouldn't know anything about God unless he learned it somehow from something or someone. When the kid grows up to be an elderly person, will he/she find God then?

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: dyn2nvu
What if a kid is born in a jungle and raised by a family in the jungle? With no tv or any other media, just hunting, playing with family and all the other basic human stuff. Will that kid goto hell because the kid didn't believe in God? How would the kid know about hell or God? The kid wouldn't know anything about God unless he learned it somehow from something or someone. When the kid grows up to be an elderly person, will he/she find God then?

There isn't clarity on this in the Christian religion, even less so between individuals. For me, I consider Romans 2.

13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

I take that to mean that God will judge people by how well they responded to their own conscience, which is societally shaped, if they have never had any other means of gauging right and wrong.

(Gentiles, in the context of the passage, refers to non-Jews who would not be familiar with Jewish law. I interpret that to mean, modern day, people who haven't been exposed to Judeo-Christian beliefs in general.)

 

[dyn2nvu]

I suppose that makes sense.

What about a religious person asking for forgiveness for doing many atrocious crimes, will he/she goto heaven?

Would anything be forgiven?

And if a non-religious person has been good to everyone, the earth and all it's creatures, will he/she goto heaven?

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: dyn2nvu
And if a non-religious person has been good to everyone, the earth and all it's creatures, will he/she goto heaven?

No according to the teaching but in the bible there are places that say yes and no.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I had a faith crisis a while back and it ended with me rejecting religion (raised Muslim). I always thought I was a strong believer. But in the end, I simply couldn't get over how angry and vengeful this God dude was. There's just no pleasing God. For every verse that describes him as 'most gracious, most merciful', there are a bunch where he explains in great detail how he will torture the bejesus out of you for every freaking 'transgression'. And I'm not talking murder/rape or twisted shit - just about everything pisses him off.

"You once raised your voice in the presence of your parents, therefore when you are buried, the walls of your grave will contract, each time crushing your bones to powdery dust. They will then expand and your body will be healed again. Then the process will repeat until you are resurrected on Judgment Day and given a chance to explain yourself."

That is just a sampler. For every 'repent and he will wash away your sins even if they were as plenty as grains of sand on a beach', there was a 'he will fucking pop your eyeballs with a burning poker he's been warming up in the pits of Hell for all eternity, just for you'. It didn't matter if you were Mother Teresa - don't accept Allah. his Last Prophet and the Koran as the infallible truth? Burn in hell. I just didn't get it.

I work a shit job as a CSR/TSR. Sometimes, I get to train new hires. Even for the shitty little process that we have, I go into great detail explaining every nuance, every business rule and every compliance to make sure no one is left in doubt. Why the hell is God's De Facto Manual for Life such a convoluted mess? Why is everything so cryptic? It always looks like a hundred people come up with a hundred-and-thirty different interpretations of any religious text.

I've never played Dungeons and Dragons but I'm assuming RPG rulebooks are far more structured and more precise than all these religious scriptures that were supposedly revealed by God to guide humanity to the one righteous path. Kill all the fags, spawn four kids every year and don't ever ask, "If everything has an origin, where did God come from?"

Today, I mostly limit myself to muttering 'LOLreligion' when these discussions pop up.

 

[polarmystery]

I only say I'm Christian to get into the pants of Christian women I find attractive...

True story.

 

[Analog]

.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: dyn2nvu
And if a non-religious person has been good to everyone, the earth and all it's creatures, will he/she goto heaven?

No according to the teaching but in the bible there are places that say yes and no.

The Bible as of the New Testament clearly states people don't receive eternal life by being "good".

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I had a faith crisis a while back and it ended with me rejecting religion (raised Muslim). I always thought I was a strong believer. But in the end, I simply couldn't get over how angry and vengeful this God dude was. There's just no pleasing God. For every verse that describes him as 'most gracious, most merciful', there are a bunch where he explains in great detail how he will torture the bejesus out of you for every freaking 'transgression'. And I'm not talking murder/rape or twisted shit - just about everything pisses him off.

"You once raised your voice in the presence of your parents, therefore when you are buried, the walls of your grave will contract, each time crushing your bones to powdery dust. They will then expand and your body will be healed again. Then the process will repeat until you are resurrected on Judgment Day and given a chance to explain yourself."

That is just a sampler. For every 'repent and he will wash away your sins even if they were as plenty as grains of sand on a beach', there was a 'he will fucking pop your eyeballs with a burning poker he's been warming up in the pits of Hell for all eternity, just for you'. It didn't matter if you were Mother Teresa - don't accept Allah. his Last Prophet and the Koran as the infallible truth? Burn in hell. I just didn't get it.

I work a shit job as a CSR/TSR. Sometimes, I get to train new hires. Even for the shitty little process that we have, I go into great detail explaining every nuance, every business rule and every compliance to make sure no one is left in doubt. Why the hell is God's De Facto Manual for Life such a convoluted mess? Why is everything so cryptic? It always looks like a hundred people come up with a hundred-and-thirty different interpretations of any religious text.

I've never played Dungeons and Dragons but I'm assuming RPG rulebooks are far more structured and more precise than all these religious scriptures that were supposedly revealed by God to guide humanity to the one righteous path. Kill all the fags, spawn four kids every year and don't ever ask, "If everything has an origin, where did God come from?"

Today, I mostly limit myself to muttering 'LOLreligion' when these discussions pop up.

You're mad at religion, not God. PM if you'd ever like to talk more, I don't have all the answers but I could give you some insight into a few.

Also, awesome sig!

 

[SlitheryDee]

I think it's cool having an old thread like this pop up. I get to see what my opinions used to be and evaluate whether they've changed significantly.

This was a great discussion btw. :thumbsup:

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I had a faith crisis a while back and it ended with me rejecting religion (raised Muslim). I always thought I was a strong believer. But in the end, I simply couldn't get over how angry and vengeful this God dude was.

This is a not-uncommon reaction, especially to a heavily dogmatic up-bringing. The most vehement atheists tend to come from such a background, and not only do they have to deal with the personal resentment and lack of trust in their own family and culture, but are left with the false impression that they really had a deep involvement and understanding of their religion, when that was far from the truth.

This circumstance alone is one of the best reasons for dispensing with literal conformist dogmatism and imposition of that on others, and particularly with the fear motivation and marketing, and instead looking personally.

theprodigalrebel, you've established for yourself that some of the religious material is unbelievable. You've thus established personally that the emphatic assertions of the would-be priest classes are insubstantial; that their interpretations and assertions of truth are meaningless to you. This give you liberty to interpret as you can, and a measure of honesty and truth is what you bring to it and make of it.

This blind entrenchment or that blind avoidance -- both are in the end unsatisfactory, and must be transcended. If in time you're interested again, there is much more spiritual literature, and Persian poetry and Rumi's discourses are at least pleasant contrasts to what you might have found so far. Oh, and some Christianity too.

 

[imported_Lothar]

...

 

[skulkingghost]

Awesome post. I hate it when people expect every religion to be free of all sin no matter who you are, we are all still human!

 

[konakona]

thanks for all your effort putting that up! Mind if I post it somewhere else? Not to ridicule or insult you, to help my friends see it from a different perspective. It helped me, I think it will help them too, I hope

 

[msi1337]

Originally posted by: shoRunner
i'd have to say i hold similar beliefs to the OP. Not all churches are that crazy too...check out Mars Hill they're pretty normal (or as close as I've seen), and hey the pastor once preached on the goodness of beer. Can't hate that now can ya?

I am a Christian, and most of what the OP said I can agree with. I don't necessarily understand speaking in tongues, but I don't discriminate against those that do it.

the above post made me wonder how long it will be before people start attending church online. Being in IT, I am always watching the integration between religion and technology.
(and I just saw Angels and Demons yesterday)

 

[Crono]

Speaking in tongues was about confirming the power and authority of the gospel after it was given.
Speaking in tongues wasn't some type of gibberish, either, it was the Holy Spirit enabling people to speak in real languages of the time that they didn't know - and they found that they could understand one another, as well.
Also, guidelines are given in New Testament, that tongues must be interpreted. If they aren't, they aren't edifying, and thus worthless and it is better then to speak i nplain language that everyone can understand.

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: Crono
Speaking in tongues was about confirming the power and authority of the gospel after it was given.
Speaking in tongues wasn't some type of gibberish, either, it was the Holy Spirit enabling people to speak in real languages of the time that they didn't know - and they found that they could understand one another, as well.
Also, guidelines are given in New Testament, that tongues must be interpreted. If they aren't, they aren't edifying, and thus worthless and it is better then to speak i nplain language that everyone can understand.

Pardon my flames. I feel uncomfortable challenging you since you mostly seem like a decent and logical person. I worry for you.

How the fuck can you believe this shit? Why not interpret that some homeless person found babbling under a highway overpass is actually revealing some god's messages?

 

[child of wonder]

Praise Jesus! I'm a Christian, too!

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: child of wonder
Praise Jesus!

People laugh at this, but seeing someone trying that hard to to put madness in a sheath of overt normalcy is as strange and frightening as finding a rattlesnake in a picnic basket while looking for the ham sandwiches.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: dyn2nvu
I suppose that makes sense.

What about a religious person asking for forgiveness for doing many atrocious crimes, will he/she goto heaven?

Would anything be forgiven?

And if a non-religious person has been good to everyone, the earth and all it's creatures, will he/she goto heaven?

i personally believe it's a matter of who you are and what you do, not what you claim to believe. actions speak louder than words

 

[actuarial]

Originally posted by: Madwand1

theprodigalrebel, you've established for yourself that some of the religious material is unbelievable. You've thus established personally that the emphatic assertions of the would-be priest classes are insubstantial; that their interpretations and assertions of truth are meaningless to you. This give you liberty to interpret as you can, and a measure of honesty and truth is what you bring to it and make of it.

This blind entrenchment or that blind avoidance -- both are in the end unsatisfactory, and must be transcended. If in time you're interested again, there is much more spiritual literature, and Persian poetry and Rumi's discourses are at least pleasant contrasts to what you might have found so far. Oh, and some Christianity too.

I find this interpretation kind of weird. You say that the would-be priest class is insubstantial, but are the teachings in the bible not the written word of the would-be priest class of the past? Or is it that a number of years must pass before a teaching goes from the interpretation of man to words which our lives should be based around?

Now if we're going to go with the whole "the bible is God's teachings spoken through man" than why aren't today's priest speaking God's words also? Why aren't the teachings of those who practice Judaism, Islam, or Scientology the words of God? Screams of confirmation bias to me.

 

[Eli]

:laugh:

How did I miss this thread?

 

[Acanthus]

Look at the vatican. Do you think even for a second that is what Jesus had in mind?

Christ was a good guy, it's his followers that are the problem.

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: theLION
so when you spoke in tongues, what were you saying? did someone translate it to everyone?</blockquote>

No, I haven't spoken in tongues in a public place. It's been a private thing for me. I have been in one situation where I was praying over someone (not somebody who was a very religious person - kind of the opposite) and he heard something in English and was able to translate it, but that was him hearing it so I dunno.

I know I have spoken in tongues. Just yesterday I hit my thumb with a hammer with my son next to me and said something along the lines of "Con foun snaga blasted frickin' fracka snagle rasta mackalat!!!!"

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: theLION
so when you spoke in tongues, what were you saying? did someone translate it to everyone?</blockquote>

No, I haven't spoken in tongues in a public place. It's been a private thing for me. I have been in one situation where I was praying over someone (not somebody who was a very religious person - kind of the opposite) and he heard something in English and was able to translate it, but that was him hearing it so I dunno.

I know I have spoken in tongues. Just yesterday I hit my thumb with a hammer with my son next to me and said something along the lines of "Con foun snaga blasted frickin' fracka snagle rasta mackalat!!!!"

lol