i hate steam

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: Sunner
I think it's quite amusing that none of the Steam fans even bother responding to my post.

I would have replied to it, but honestly it seems like more of an opinion post rather than anything that needs to be furthered argued. If you had problems with your CD keys when they switched from Won to Steam, I'm sorry. I didnt have that problem and you are honestly the first person I've heard that did have that happen to them.

I agree, my opinion that it's bull$hit to need it to play a single player game is just that, an opinion.

Pulling server lists is without a doubt much slower, at least for me and my friends, I guess maybe all the Steam infrastructure might simply be weaker than the WON infrastructure, or be located differently, making it slower depending on where you are, but in the end, I, as a consumer, don't give a rats ass, the effect is in the end, that for me it's worse.

I didn't have a problem playing HL2 offline though, so no complaints about that.

Oh and while I'm moaning, I'd be less pissed off if Valve hadn't abandoned CS 1.6 when it went to Steam.
Since the WON -> Steam switch, VAC is pretty much never updated, while CD was updated on a near daily basis, which made script kiddies damn near extinct on CD servers.
Now they're all over the place.

Couldn't Valve just have asked the fellas over at unitedadmins to "port" CD to Steam?

I don't mind the Steam updates at all, they're quite snappy, so no problem there, I just mind many other things, among them Valve's handling of the whole deal.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: Sunner
Oh and while I'm moaning, I'd be less pissed off if Valve hadn't abandoned CS 1.6 when it went to Steam.
Since the WON -> Steam switch, VAC is pretty much never updated, while CD was updated on a near daily basis, which made script kiddies damn near extinct on CD servers.
Now they're all over the place.

Couldn't Valve just have asked the fellas over at unitedadmins to "port" CD to Steam?

That's a legit complaint about CS and I've heard it several times. While I'm not saying it's acceptable, companies cant continue to focus on their older products (HL/CS) forever, they've gotta move on at some point... But I definately hear ya.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: drag
like this

With my computer I have over 10,000 software packagese that I can install with a click of a button. Anything from solitare to entire operating systems.

People have been doing this sort of thing, download games and software off of the internet and keep it updated, for years and years. Steam is needlessly complex and invasive. It's all about them having incredably anal level controls over what you do with your own computer and your own software that you bought from them.

How is Steam more complex than that? And by invasive do you mean stopping people who actually didn't pay for the product from using it?

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: skace
And by invasive do you mean stopping people who actually didn't pay for the product from using it?

You really think it is stopping that? Go to any cracking website and you can find cracks for HL2 by about 8 different groups. Valve also has the possibility of getting into legal trouble with steam. Locking someone out of their purchased product because they did something like crack another one of your products could get you in trouble. I know if a group like the RIAA decided to do something similiar people would be up in arms about it. Oh, and according to the Steam TOS you can't resell your Steam account. But hey, it's Valve and people don't seem to care when they do this crap like they would the RIAA or MPAA.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: obsidian
You really think it is stopping that? Go to any cracking website and you can find cracks for HL2 by about 8 different groups. Valve also has the possibility of getting into legal trouble with steam. Locking someone out of their purchased product because they did something like crack another one of your products could get you in trouble. I know if a group like the RIAA decided to do something similiar people would be up in arms about it. Oh, and according to the Steam TOS you can't resell your Steam account. But hey, it's Valve and people don't seem to care when they do this crap like they would the RIAA or MPAA.

The thieves will always find a way around protection, it's just becomming more difficult for them. How do you happen to know about 8 different cracks for HL2?

I love how the Internet allows you to say anything you want at all, and not need to back it up. For example, your "legal trouble" statement. Is that something you just pulled out of thin air, or did you just read some angry fans suggest it? I dont see how they're locking anyone out except when they ban accounts for using pirated keys.

There is no similarity between the RIAA and MPAA situation to Valve, nor could they ever do anything similar to Steam's authentication method. Adobe, Microsoft and Macromedia are more sutable comparisions to product activation. This is the first time it has been used for a game.

Several other games' TOS and AUPs state that you cant sell your account, specifically on MMORPGs, it's nothing new.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: Sunner
Oh and while I'm moaning, I'd be less pissed off if Valve hadn't abandoned CS 1.6 when it went to Steam.
Since the WON -> Steam switch, VAC is pretty much never updated, while CD was updated on a near daily basis, which made script kiddies damn near extinct on CD servers.
Now they're all over the place.

Couldn't Valve just have asked the fellas over at unitedadmins to "port" CD to Steam?

That's a legit complaint about CS and I've heard it several times. While I'm not saying it's acceptable, companies cant continue to focus on their older products (HL/CS) forever, they've gotta move on at some point... But I definately hear ya.

I don't expect them to, they're a business after all.
My problem is that unitedadmins/CD were doing it for Valve, and Valve just threw it away.
I suppose it could be a way to encourage people to buy HL2 and thereby get CS:S.

Like I said, if Steam was merely a bit buggy, I can live with that, happens to most software, it's Valves general way of handling the whole thing I don't care for.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: drag
like this

With my computer I have over 10,000 software packagese that I can install with a click of a button. Anything from solitare to entire operating systems.

People have been doing this sort of thing, download games and software off of the internet and keep it updated, for years and years. Steam is needlessly complex and invasive. It's all about them having incredably anal level controls over what you do with your own computer and your own software that you bought from them.

How is Steam more complex than that? And by invasive do you mean stopping people who actually didn't pay for the product from using it?

I never had problem running a program, even when I wasn't connected to the internet. I never was told I had to e-mail the jeweled case of a product in order to get it running. I was never locked out of a portion of my own harddrive thru encryption. etc etc etc.

If steam was simple then it wouldn't be screwing up all the time.

And by invasive I mean that they are being dicks to their customers. Fortunately for them lots of people are more then willing to lose their dignity and sacrifice their rights for a cheap thrill.

I suppose you might as well get used to it, becuase if this becomes successfull you can expect to deal with similar restrictions for every thing you have on your computer. It may not seem a big deal with one program, but when it becomes each and every game you isntall, every movie you watch, every song you download then it may become a little irritating. A brave new world, eh?

And if you think that this is just for piracy your nuts. It's a excuse for them to treat you like a criminal and document and authenticate everything you do.

I am thinking about targetted marketing, which is the REAL goal, and a big potential $$$ maker.
We all know that piracy is such a HUGE problem that companies like EA and Microsoft are going out of business left and right. :roll:

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: drag
I never had problem running a program, even when I wasn't connected to the internet. I never was told I had to e-mail the jeweled case of a product in order to get it running. I was never locked out of a portion of my own harddrive thru encryption. etc etc etc.

If steam was simple then it wouldn't be screwing up all the time.

And by invasive I mean that they are being dicks to their customers. Fortunately for them lots of people are more then willing to lose their dignity and sacrifice their rights for a cheap thrill.

I suppose you might as well get used to it, becuase if this becomes successfull you can expect to deal with similar restrictions for every thing you have on your computer. It may not seem a big deal with one program, but when it becomes each and every game you isntall, every movie you watch, every song you download then it may become a little irritating. A brave new world, eh?

And if you think that this is just for piracy your nuts. It's a excuse for them to treat you like a criminal and document and authenticate everything you do.

I am thinking about targetted marketing, which is the REAL goal, and a big potential $$$ maker.
We all know that piracy is such a HUGE problem that companies like EA and Microsoft are going out of business left and right. :roll:

Oh, well since MS and EA can stay in business, I better go back to steal everything, drag said so. Also, you are comparing your freeware linux distribution tool to a tool used to protect a purchased product. You might as well compare Steam to a Bit-Torrent site, "Look, I can go to this BT site and download everything I want without anyone bothering me!".

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: Modeps
The thieves will always find a way around protection, it's just becomming more difficult for them. How do you happen to know about 8 different cracks for HL2?

I love how the Internet allows you to say anything you want at all, and not need to back it up. For example, your "legal trouble" statement. Is that something you just pulled out of thin air, or did you just read some angry fans suggest it? I dont see how they're locking anyone out except when they ban accounts for using pirated keys.

There is no similarity between the RIAA and MPAA situation to Valve, nor could they ever do anything similar to Steam's authentication method. Adobe, Microsoft and Macromedia are more sutable comparisions to product activation. This is the first time it has been used for a game.

Several other games' TOS and AUPs state that you cant sell your account, specifically on MMORPGs, it's nothing new.

How do I know? I went to a site, put in Half Life 2 into the search bar, and watched to see how many there were. I would have posted a link but I am unsure about the policies on posting links to cracks.

And no, it's not something I pulled out of thin air. You can go read about it here.

Steam is NOT a MMO. Stop trying to latch onto that comparison for every damn thing they do. The reason MMO companies don't like the selling of accounts is totally different. MMO accounts acquire a percieved value from being played over the original purchase price. Steam accounts don't. If people are selling steam accounts on ebay, it will be for under the retail price. People sell MMO accounts to make money over the retail price.

Oh, and if you crack an adobe product and they find out last I checked they don't delete every other adobe product on your computer. That is something the RIAA has been entertaining for a while now through the use of virus' embedded in files distributed over P2P networks.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: drag
I never had problem running a program, even when I wasn't connected to the internet. I never was told I had to e-mail the jeweled case of a product in order to get it running. I was never locked out of a portion of my own harddrive thru encryption. etc etc etc.

If steam was simple then it wouldn't be screwing up all the time.

And by invasive I mean that they are being dicks to their customers. Fortunately for them lots of people are more then willing to lose their dignity and sacrifice their rights for a cheap thrill.

I suppose you might as well get used to it, becuase if this becomes successfull you can expect to deal with similar restrictions for every thing you have on your computer. It may not seem a big deal with one program, but when it becomes each and every game you isntall, every movie you watch, every song you download then it may become a little irritating. A brave new world, eh?

And if you think that this is just for piracy your nuts. It's a excuse for them to treat you like a criminal and document and authenticate everything you do.

I am thinking about targetted marketing, which is the REAL goal, and a big potential $$$ maker.
We all know that piracy is such a HUGE problem that companies like EA and Microsoft are going out of business left and right. :roll:

Oh, well since MS and EA can stay in business, I better go back to steal everything, drag said so. Also, you are comparing your freeware linux distribution tool to a tool used to protect a purchased product. You might as well compare Steam to a Bit-Torrent site, "Look, I can go to this BT site and download everything I want without anyone bothering me!".

Well I suppose you can come to that conclusion... If your a moron.

But of course your not, and you realise that I don't like piracy any more then I like the concepts behind steam.

Hey, didn't your mom ever tell you 2 wrongs don't make a right?

Truth of the matter is that what Steam does and what it accomplishes, the good and the bad are independant from each other. Valve and friends can protect their intrests in different ways. They just know that people will put up with it.. Its' like a game, lets see how much crap they'll take, then they'll get used to it, then we'll shovel more crap on them. Well I suppose you can get used to it, because now you can plan on seeing similar behavior from every peice of software and digital data you purchase.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: obsidian
And no, it's not something I pulled out of thin air. You can go read about it here.

Steam is NOT a MMO. Stop trying to latch onto that comparison for every damn thing they do. The reason MMO companies don't like the selling of accounts is totally different. MMO accounts acquire a percieved value from being played over the original purchase price. Steam accounts don't. If people are selling steam accounts on ebay, it will be for under the retail price. People sell MMO accounts to make money over the retail price.

Oh, and if you crack an adobe product and they find out last I checked they don't delete every other adobe product on your computer. That is something the RIAA has been entertaining for a while now through the use of virus' embedded in files distributed over P2P networks.

That linked article is a speculative piece and has no merit other than making a few somewhat decent points. They will never be in hot water due to the fact that every TOS you read, by Valve and all other software companies, state that you do not actually own the product and by cracking it you are violating their TOS.

I brought MMOs up as simply an example of other people who prohibit sale of accounts and it was the first time. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Steam is disabling accounts and disallowing play, they're not invading your PC and deleting files. I dont even know why you're bringing up the RIAA.

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: Modeps
That linked article is a speculative piece and has no merit other than making a few somewhat decent points. They will never be in hot water due to the fact that every TOS you read, by Valve and all other software companies, state that you do not actually own the product and by cracking it you are violating their TOS.

I brought MMOs up as simply an example of other people who prohibit sale of accounts and it was the first time. Reading comprehension is your friend.

Steam is disabling accounts and disallowing play, they're not invading your PC and deleting files. I dont even know why you're bringing up the RIAA.

But the point is, you do not have to break the TOS of the purchased product. If you break the TOS of ANY steam product, all are affected. That is the problem. Not too mention that the "you don't own anything" argument would hardly be black and white in court.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: obsidian
But the point is, you do not have to break the TOS of the purchased product. If you break the TOS of ANY steam product, all are affected. That is the problem. Not too mention that the "you don't own anything" argument would hardly be black and white in court.

That's your point?? You sure went a strange route to get there. I'm sure they figure if you did it once, you're more thanlikely to do it again and therefore BAN.

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: Modeps
That's your point?? You sure went a strange route to get there. I'm sure they figure if you did it once, you're more thanlikely to do it again and therefore BAN.

Ok, but it isn't a point of doing it again. They are banning you from products already purchased. For future products you can just create a new account.

Not sure how strange the route I went is because this is specifically what the article I posted says that Valve could get in trouble with.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: obsidian
Ok, but it isn't a point of doing it again. They are banning you from products already purchased. For future products you can just create a new account.

True true. Oh well, I dont mind anyway you cut it. Mostly because I dont steal or cheat...

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: malak
Yeah, but they didn't need to do steam to do that. Other games let you download their game without having to do the crap that steam does. Personally, I prefer having the CDs, and I don't like the fact that after buying and installing the game I can't play it because the game is encrypted and the only way to decrypt is through steam, and then the only way to play a single player only game is to use this. Does that not sound stupid?

No, it doesnt sound stupid. Valve knows piracy is a big problem and the decryption was a piracy control method. That's why you had to authenticate with their servers first. It's similar to having to activate Windows XP, although because it's a game, they didnt want anyone to play that hadn't authenticated (with XP, you could use it for a few weeks before needing to authenticate). If you'd rather have the CDs, cool. I used to think that way too but I enjoyed getting HL2 through Steam and had it ready to go when I got home from work the day after release.

Except it didn't work and the game was cracked from day 1.

Oh and the steam bogging down the game, I'll try to find a link for ya. But someone played the legit way then tried it without steam, and they noticed that about 60% of load times disappeared because of disabling steam. I'll go look for it.

 

[Malak]

Benchmarks with and without steam

 

[Thor86]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I like Steam, seems to work fine for me.

Ditto.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: malak
Benchmarks with and without steam

That's pretty interesting, however a bit further down in the post it shows that they've updated steam and improved level load and transition time the day before that guy posted.

 

[NiKeFiDO]

has the steampowered forums crapped out or is it just my computer that decided it doesnt like teh steam forums lately?

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: NiKeFiDO
has the steampowered forums crapped out or is it just my computer that decided it doesnt like teh steam forums lately?

I cant get to them either. They're probably trying to get a better board up and running.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: malak
Benchmarks with and without steam

That's pretty interesting, however a bit further down in the post it shows that they've updated steam and improved level load and transition time the day before that guy posted.

Just the fact that they banned him, "unofficial" patches or not, without even giving any comments about his discoveries shows exactly what I'm talking about.

The people over at Valve are being complete asses about far too many things.

Antipathy would best describe how I feel about Valve these days.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: malak
Benchmarks with and without steam

That's pretty interesting, however a bit further down in the post it shows that they've updated steam and improved level load and transition time the day before that guy posted.

Just the fact that they banned him, "unofficial" patches or not, without even giving any comments about his discoveries shows exactly what I'm talking about.

The people over at Valve are being complete asses about far too many things.

Antipathy would best describe how I feel about Valve these days.

I'm guessing it's because he stated that he: "dug up an (unofficial) patch allowing to start HL2 without Steam. In fact, this patch was a loader that would execute the GCF files bypassing Steam in the process" violating the TOS

 

[dgevert]

Originally posted by: Modeps
You people are unbelievable. Do your fsking research. If you want to play offline, without downloading patches, you can. *gasp*

No shit, I'm not stupid. It's possible, but it's a hassle to do - needlessly so.

Personally when I am playing single player a game and I hear a patch comes out, I download it and install it the next time I want to play. Why? Because OH MY GOD it may FIX or IMPROVE THE GAME! I cant believe that people are upset that the game is getting updated. Your gripes are so unfounded and you sound like morons. When the patch first comes out, sure the servers may be a bit overloaded... it happens even when other companies release updates to popular games.

So do I, but there's a huge difference between doing it myself and having it forced on me...

The difference is, when other companies release updates to popular games and their servers get overloaded, you can still *play* them.

Try doing this: Make games not so important to your life and give it a day or two.

Let's see..ad hominem, red herring...

You seem to be so intent on worshipping everything about Valve that you don't see the point. I mean, yeah, they make good games, but geez, this is ridiculous.

 

[BDawg]

Here's what I hate...I want to play HL2...I sit down and double-click the icon. Ooops...update time...can't do it later. Now I have to wait 30 min to play.