i hate steam

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: skace
Actually, I like the solution. Streaming content works nicely. And is really just adopted from MMORPGs which have been doing it for a long awhile now. It is really the way to go.

Are you crazy? There are MUCH better ways to offer streaming content. You shouldn't have to worry about some authentification server being online every time you go to play a single player game or even a multiplayer game on someone elses server. That's like having someone tell you "ok, you can play" everytime time you want to, and if that person isn't there, you can't.

Second, streaming content should NOT be automatically installed if you don't want it to be. It should be downloaded in a nice, portable package that can be distributed and installed on demand. Why? Well I don't leave steam running 24/7. I don't leave any program that isn't necessary run 24/7 actually. So if I don't run steam for a while, and I go to a LAN with someone who has, and we have different version and no net access, good luck finding a workaround. At least with more traditional ways, even if I just installed a game, I can almost always get the current patch from someone at a LAN if I haven't updated.

Sorry, but steam is more of a system to benefit corporations than it is consumers. I think the fact that a sticky note on their official forums saying you can't sell your steam account says enough. Maybe it is me, but I don't like being told what I can and can not do with something I have purchased (within legal limits of course). I'm one of those people who actually believe if crazy stuff like fair use and consumer rights.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: obsidian
Are you crazy? There are MUCH better ways to offer streaming content. You shouldn't have to worry about some authentification server being online every time you go to play a single player game or even a multiplayer game on someone elses server. That's like having someone tell you "ok, you can play" everytime time you want to, and if that person isn't there, you can't.

Second, streaming content should NOT be automatically installed if you don't want it to be. It should be downloaded in a nice, portable package that can be distributed and installed on demand. Why? Well I don't leave steam running 24/7. I don't leave any program that isn't necessary run 24/7 actually. So if I don't run steam for a while, and I go to a LAN with someone who has, and we have different version and no net access, good luck finding a workaround. At least with more traditional ways, even if I just installed a game, I can almost always get the current patch from someone at a LAN if I haven't updated.

Sorry, but steam is more of a system to benefit corporations than it is consumers. I think the fact that a sticky note on their official forums saying you can't sell your steam account says enough. Maybe it is me, but I don't like being told what I can and can not do with something I have purchased (within legal limits of course). I'm one of those people who actually believe if crazy stuff like fair use and consumer rights.

Well your first paragraph is basically the same as HL1. WoN authentication servers would tell you whether you could play or not. If the WoN servers were down, you couldn't play. Of course, they didn't kick in for single player, but this is just a way to encompass security over the entire package. People should not be getting a free single player experience and then deciding whether they want to pay to play online (basically every online game ever).

I havn't tried this, but couldn't you just synch your Steam folder with someone else at a lan? I'm pretty sure patches just update the gpk or whatever files. Have you tried this? I would assume it would be EASIER to update Steam on a lan that it was finding someone else who had every patch that ever came out on their lan PC.

And even if you could sell your Steam account, what kind of retard would buy a Steam account from someone else. You have no idea who they are, if they account even works, whether they have been locked out or if they are even continuing to use it. Very sketchy process just like selling an MMORPG account which is also frowned upon.

Yes, Steam is a tool for the corporation first and foremost. If nobody ever stole software then the only reason for Steam would be to break away from software houses. Albeit, without stealing, they would only need massive file servers and a basic 1 time authentication. Despite this, I, as a consumer, still benefitted from Steam. I installed HL2 very easily through Steam and never once had to open a package or touch my cdrom drive, I like that. I also benefitted from Steam's built in server browser which I happen to like a lot. I also like Steam's integrated menu system that allowed me to setup a game very quickly. Shrug.

 

[imported_obsidian]

I was going to write up a long reply but it just isn't worth it anymore. It comes down to this. When you "buy" HL2 all your are buying is Valve's permission to play their game, and that permission is revokable any time Valve deems it so. I have a problem with that, and do NOT want games in general to move in this direction. No amount of claiming it's only to stop piracy is going to change that.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: obsidian
When you "buy" HL2 all your are buying is Valve's permission to play their game, and that permission is revokable any time Valve deems it so. I have a problem with that, and do NOT want games in general to move in this direction.

i agree with that statement.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

it burns, it burns!


and for the record, i like steam, though it CAN be improved

 

[ERMan]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: obsidian
When you "buy" HL2 all your are buying is Valve's permission to play their game, and that permission is revokable any time Valve deems it so. I have a problem with that, and do NOT want games in general to move in this direction.

i agree with that statement.

I also agree with that statement, even took HL2 off my hard-drive, will not buy software again that requires online authentication by any company.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: obsidian
I was going to write up a long reply but it just isn't worth it anymore. It comes down to this. When you "buy" HL2 all your are buying is Valve's permission to play their game, and that permission is revokable any time Valve deems it so. I have a problem with that, and do NOT want games in general to move in this direction. No amount of claiming it's only to stop piracy is going to change that.

Again, mmorpg scene has been doing it forever. If you get banned from an mmorpg, your purchase of a game is basically null and void. The system works. Been working since UO (and, I guess, earlier than that). I look forward to more games adopting it.

I will agree with you the second someone's ability to play HL2 is revoked because they beat a Valve employee in deathmatch or any other trivial reason that would not make sense.

 

[Modeps]

/me pops head in
mumbles something about cant believing this thread is still going and if you dont like their policies and programs to go play a different game
/me pops head back out

 

[dgevert]

Originally posted by: Modeps
/me pops head in
mumbles something about cant believing this thread is still going and if you dont like their policies and programs to go play a different game
/me pops head back out

/me gets a rubber mallot to wack the mol...err...troll next time he pops back in

If Half-Life 2 wasn't such an awesome game, maybe we'd have no problems with this. What you and the other fanboys are ignoring is the fact that Steam could have...and should have...been implemented SOOOO much better.

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: skace
Again, mmorpg scene has been doing it forever. If you get banned from an mmorpg, your purchase of a game is basically null and void. The system works. Been working since UO (and, I guess, earlier than that). I look forward to more games adopting it.

I will agree with you the second someone's ability to play HL2 is revoked because they beat a Valve employee in deathmatch or any other trivial reason that would not make sense.

Steam is not an MMO. Steam is not a persistant world. You don't play games on Steam servers (even more so for HL2). Steam is nothing more than a system to tell people who can play their games. If EA were to implement a system like this, people would be up in arms about it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Modeps
/me pops head in
mumbles something about cant believing this thread is still going and if you dont like their policies and programs to go play a different game
/me pops head back out

Well, if we didn't install Steam to play HL2, we wouldn't know beforehand it is a POS and that their policies and program sux.
:roll:

NOW we know. . . .
. . . . HL2 aint that great of a game.

:thumbsdown:

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: obsidian

Originally posted by: skace
Again, mmorpg scene has been doing it forever. If you get banned from an mmorpg, your purchase of a game is basically null and void. The system works. Been working since UO (and, I guess, earlier than that). I look forward to more games adopting it.

I will agree with you the second someone's ability to play HL2 is revoked because they beat a Valve employee in deathmatch or any other trivial reason that would not make sense.

Steam is not an MMO. Steam is not a persistant world. You don't play games on Steam servers (even more so for HL2). Steam is nothing more than a system to tell people who can play their games. If EA were to implement a system like this, people would be up in arms about it.

And because of those reasons, you don't have a monthly fee. But they've still adopted the MMO standard of maintaining an 'account' which you are responsible for. Is there anything else you'd like to bring up?

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: skace
And because of those reasons, you don't have a monthly fee. But they've still adopted the MMO standard of maintaining an 'account' which you are responsible for. Is there anything else you'd like to bring up?

Any why does a MMO use this standard? Because they HAVE to in order to regulate their own GAME servers. They absolutely NEED everyone updated so that can play the game at all. Steam uses this system to regulate who can and cannot play their games, and that is it.

Now we know MS is banning cracked xbox's from xbox live. Fair enough. Just like if a server catches you cheating you should be banned from that server, or all servers using that system to protect themselves from cheaters.

Now image instead, if MS found a cracked xbox they would stop your xbox from playing any game. Or maybe just MS studio games. That is essentially what valve is doing, and is the REAL reason they use steam. All the other features like streaming content, friends list, server browser, etc are just extra features that could be independant of steam. Why do you think banning people takes higher precedence over basic functionality like the friends list or customer support? No reselling of their games + direct purchase + total control over game after purchase = $$$.

But hey it is Valve. We trust them. They would never do anything like this.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: obsidian
Any why does a MMO use this standard? Because they HAVE to in order to regulate their own GAME servers. They absolutely NEED everyone updated so that can play the game at all. Steam uses this system to regulate who can and cannot play their games, and that is it.

Now we know MS is banning cracked xbox's from xbox live. Fair enough. Just like if a server catches you cheating you should be banned from that server, or all servers using that system to protect themselves from cheaters.

Now image instead, if MS found a cracked xbox they would stop your xbox from playing any game. Or maybe just MS studio games. That is essentially what valve is doing, and is the REAL reason they use steam. All the other features like streaming content, friends list, server browser, etc are just extra features that could be independant of steam. Why do you think banning people takes higher precedence over basic functionality like the friends list or customer support? No reselling of their games + direct purchase + total control over game after purchase = $$$.

But hey it is Valve. We trust them. They would never do anything like this.

Right. MMOs have to use it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a good system to go by. Steam uses it to ensure everyone is playing the game with the correct content. Client side modified content is one of the quickest hacks in an FPS game. Infact, it is one of the dangers most MMORPGs face also.

MS is only targeting cracked Xboxs and not the actual games. I'm sure if they could find a way to see if you stole their game, they would ban you from being able to play it at all. Unfortunately, they didn't have that functionality. MS relied on the console to provide security in the form of non-standard DVDs. These were trumped when people started moving games to their Xbox via the network.

 

[imported_obsidian]

Originally posted by: skace
Right. MMOs have to use it, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a good system to go by. Steam uses it to ensure everyone is playing the game with the correct content. Client side modified content is one of the quickest hacks in an FPS game. Infact, it is one of the dangers most MMORPGs face also.

MS is only targeting cracked Xboxs and not the actual games. I'm sure if they could find a way to see if you stole their game, they would ban you from being able to play it at all. Unfortunately, they didn't have that functionality. MS relied on the console to provide security in the form of non-standard DVDs. These were trumped when people started moving games to their Xbox via the network.

Oh well, I see you keep ignoring my point that all Steam really is needed for is to give Valve control over your game after you paid for it. Valve could have just as easily made Steam an extra service you login to in order to gain the extra benefits of steam. They could easily allow transfers of purchased games between accounts. They could freely let people sell their accounts. They could do all of this, but they don't. Just like they don't support their product, don't respond to complaints, and flat out lie about release dates to sell video cards.

 

[warcrow]

I :heart: you all!

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: obsidian
Oh well, I see you keep ignoring my point that all Steam really is needed for is to give Valve control over your game after you paid for it. Valve could have just as easily made Steam an extra service you login to in order to gain the extra benefits of steam. They could easily allow transfers of purchased games between accounts. They could freely let people sell their accounts. They could do all of this, but they don't. Just like they don't support their product, don't respond to complaints, and flat out lie about release dates to sell video cards.

Ok, those features you just mentioned take time and money. Regardless of how you spin it.

Selling accounts? Here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...1&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Well I'm getting tired of arguing this so lets settle on our different views:

Yours: Valve only implemented Steam to have control over your game that you paid for.

Mine: Valve implemented Steam in a continued struggle against common place piracy that is pretty much standard on the internet these days. They also did it as an attempt to free themselves from 3rd party software houses. Also, Steam is an attempt at creating controlled content that would stop hacking and cheating that is so common-place in first person shooters.

 

[PsharkJF]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: obsidian
Oh well, I see you keep ignoring my point that all Steam really is needed for is to give Valve control over your game after you paid for it. Valve could have just as easily made Steam an extra service you login to in order to gain the extra benefits of steam. They could easily allow transfers of purchased games between accounts. They could freely let people sell their accounts. They could do all of this, but they don't. Just like they don't support their product, don't respond to complaints, and flat out lie about release dates to sell video cards.

Ok, those features you just mentioned take time and money. Regardless of how you spin it.

Selling accounts? Here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...1&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Well I'm getting tired of arguing this so lets settle on our different views:

Yours: Valve only implemented Steam to have control over your game that you paid for.

Mine: Valve implemented Steam in a continued struggle against common place piracy that is pretty much standard on the internet these days. They also did it as an attempt to free themselves from 3rd party software houses. Also, Steam is an attempt at creating controlled content that would stop hacking and cheating that is so common-place in first person shooters.

It doesn't stop ANY cheating. VAC doesn't bother to detect 95% of opengl wrappers out there.

Edit: 70% of TFC is illegitimate in one way or another, either using perfectplayer.dll or bhop.dll

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skace


Yours: Valve only implemented Steam to have control over your game that you paid for.

Mine: Valve implemented Steam in a continued struggle against common place piracy that is pretty much standard on the internet these days. They also did it as an attempt to free themselves from 3rd party software houses. Also, Steam is an attempt at creating controlled content that would stop hacking and cheating that is so common-place in first person shooters.

Sure it is an "attempt" - but anirritating customer-unfriendly one . . . It is generating huge bucks for themselves without providing ANYTHING of (extra) value to their customers.
Steam sux.
:roll:

Just like their bleak "future" in HL2.
:shocked:

:thumbsdown:

edited.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: PsharkJF
It doesn't stop ANY cheating. VAC doesn't bother to detect 95% of opengl wrappers out there.

Edit: 70% of TFC is illegitimate in one way or another, either using perfectplayer.dll or bhop.dll

Originally posted by: apoppin
Sure it is an "attempt" - but anirritating customer-unfriendly one . . . It is generating huge bucks for themselves without providing ANYTHING of (extra) value to their customers.

Yup. It isn't perfect. But it is still a step in the RIGHT direction. Or perhaps the necessary direction.

 

[Injury]

I have NEVER had any issues with connecting to steam, all updates take less than a minute, if not less than 20 seconds, and it has made it much easier to track update news, find when my friends are on and what servers they are playing on, and it has helped prevent pirates and hackers from running rampant on servers. Whenever you see someone hacking on a server, you can take comfort that in two weeks, they won't have a steam account anymore and will have wasted $50 on something they can no longer use. (online at least.)

Fanboy? Yes. You're goddamn right I am. Everything Valve has released is gold.

:thumbsup:
Most true statement in this thread, as opposed to everyone shooting their mouths about how much they hate steam without providing any evidence to its poor performance other than heresy and moaning.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Injury
I have NEVER had any issues with connecting to steam, all updates take less than a minute, if not less than 20 seconds, and it has made it much easier to track update news, find when my friends are on and what servers they are playing on, and it has helped prevent pirates and hackers from running rampant on servers. Whenever you see someone hacking on a server, you can take comfort that in two weeks, they won't have a steam account anymore and will have wasted $50 on something they can no longer use. (online at least.)

Fanboy? Yes. You're goddamn right I am. Everything Valve has released is gold.

:thumbsup:
Most true statement in this thread, as opposed to everyone shooting their mouths about how much they hate steam without providing any evidence to its poor performance other than heresy and moaning.

Just 'cause YOU never had issues, doesn't mean SOME of us haven't.
:roll:

And you are shooting your mouth off without providing any evidence. . . . .
. . . also.
:roll:

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Injury
I have NEVER had any issues with connecting to steam, all updates take less than a minute, if not less than 20 seconds, and it has made it much easier to track update news, find when my friends are on and what servers they are playing on, and it has helped prevent pirates and hackers from running rampant on servers. Whenever you see someone hacking on a server, you can take comfort that in two weeks, they won't have a steam account anymore and will have wasted $50 on something they can no longer use. (online at least.)

Fanboy? Yes. You're goddamn right I am. Everything Valve has released is gold.

:thumbsup:
Most true statement in this thread, as opposed to everyone shooting their mouths about how much they hate steam without providing any evidence to its poor performance other than heresy and moaning.

Just 'cause YOU never had issues, doesn't mean SOME of us haven't.
:roll:

And you are shooting your mouth off without providing any evidence. . . . .
. . . also.
:roll:

How exactly do you want me to show evidence of nothing ever happening to me? What most people don't realize is that most of these "issues" are client-side.

 

[imported_obsidian]

Ah, the old "nothing happened to me so it must be your fault" argument. It is the Valve fanboy's favorite response.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: obsidian
Ah, the old "nothing happened to me so it must be your fault" argument. It is the Valve fanboy's favorite response.

Because it's true.

If steam is having certain kinds of incombatibilities with your system, then it's something you did or something you are doing. Steam will install and run perfectly fine on a fresh install of Windows, therefore any changes you make are the only ones that will truly affect Steam.

What I'm saying is that if you are having problems with Steam, simply posting and bitching about it can't freaking help them because they don't know enough about each individual's system, internet service, network hardware and other installed programs. Are you seriously expecting Valve to go through every possible combination of installed programs to detect bugs being caused by some other program that they didn't write?

Valve is doing everything in their power to make sure Steam runs and if you know how to use a computer running it shouldn't be a problem.