If you're religious

[DAPUNISHER]

This thread can go no where good, and will probably get locked. Given that, here is something completely irreverent.

You know how some people see Jesus in a mildew stain, grilled ham&cheese, tree bark, etc.? Well, some may see counter-measures smoke, but I see... could it be?!?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: sandorski
God: To you I give Life and Free Will!
Me: Sweet, I'm gonna go do...
God: Wait wait, there's a Catch...
Me: Catch?
God: Ya, Do what is written here, here, and here. Don't do what's written in the rest of this Book.
Me: WTF? What happens if I don't?
God: I torture you for Eternity.
Me: :Q :| You're an asshole.
God: pop, ceases to exist

This certainly explains your simpleton nature.

What explains yours?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
This thread can go no where good, and will probably get locked. Given that, here is something completely irreverent.

You know how some people see Jesus in a mildew stain, grilled ham&cheese, tree bark, etc.? Well, some may see counter-measures smoke, but I see... could it be?!?

His Noodly Appendages!!!

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: jonks
did you bother scrolling down to the reference list? Horus was being worshipped for a thousand years when jesus was born. His worshippers recognized his birthday as Dec 25, his dad was Joseph, and he raised Lazarus from the dead. Selective list my ass. And if you take the bible at its word, then you have a lot of chutzpah claiming that something about Horus was made up.

THe bible was writen hundreds of years later from a combination of whole cloth fabrication, previous messianic legends, and word of mouth generations separated from any possibly actual events along the lines of "the romans crucified some guy who thought he was god or something"

Reference list is secondary. Those aren't the religious texts of the Egyptians, those are other website and books which I would have to obtain and check. Once of those websites, an About.com reference page, even says:

Encyclopedia Mythica article on Horus. Stephanie Cass says, "The name "Horus" is a general catchall for multiple deities.... In all the Horus deities the traits of kingship, sky and solar symbology, and victory reoccur. As the prototype of the earthly king, there were as many Horus gods as there were rulers of Egypt, if not more."

You could assemble a George Washington prototype from the stories of various leaders that came before him, but that doesn't mean the actual story of him was inspired by the others.

Your list is selective. Since you are using a secondary source, I will, too. THe following info is from Wikipedia.

"Horus was also said to be a war god and a hunter's god; since he was associated with the falcon. Thus he became a symbol of majesty and power as well as the model of the pharaohs.[6] The pharaohs were said to be Horus in human form."

Doesn't sound like Jesus.

"By the Nineteenth dynasty, the enmity between Set and Horus, in which Horus had ripped off one of Set's testicles, was represented as a separate tale. According to Papyrus Chester-Beatty I, Set is depicted as trying to prove his dominance by seducing Horus and then having intercourse with him."

Doesn't sound like Jesus.

"Horus is recorded in Egyptian hieroglyphs as ?r.w and is reconstructed to have been pronounced *?aru, meaning "Falcon". As a description it has also typically been thought of as having the meaning "the distant one" or "one who is above, over"[2] By Coptic times, the name became Hor. It was adopted into Greek as ???? Horos. The original name also survives in later Egyptian names such as Har-Si-Ese literally "Horus, son of Isis"."

Doesn't sound like Jesus.

You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Crono
You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

Have read the bible? The gospels don't even agree with each other, never mind the whole bible.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?

1. All people have sinned. Therefore, all people deserve hell as a result.
2. Only those whom God chooses to save does he save. We don't deserve it. See #1.
3. All those millions of people who never got told about God are ones whom God did not chose. Even if they had heard about God they still wouldn't have converted. In of ourselves we don't WANT to be saved anyway. People like their sin. And aside from God changing them, they would never want him.
4. Is it "unfair" of God to chose some to be saved and others not? In a way, it is. If he was to be totally "fair" as we see it, nobody would get saved as nobody deserves it. But he decides to spoil some of us, for reasons that we don't know. We didn't do anything to deserve it.

Not too hard a concept... But some people I guess like posting troll threads just to stir stuff up and see how long it flames on before it gets locked

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono
You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

Have read the bible? The gospels don't even agree with each other, never mind the whole bible.

Yes, I have. Have you? They do agree with each other. The apparent discrepancies that people propose are reconcilable.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono
You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

Have read the bible? The gospels don't even agree with each other, never mind the whole bible.

Yes, I have. Have you? They do agree with each other. The apparent discrepancies that people propose are reconcilable.

If you jump through enough logical (and illogical) hoops, you can reconcile almost any discrepancy, even ones about Horus.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?

1. All people have sinned. Therefore, all people deserve hell as a result.
2. Only those whom God chooses to save does he save. We don't deserve it. See #1.
3. All those millions of people who never got told about God are ones whom God did not chose. Even if they had heard about God they still wouldn't have converted. In of ourselves we don't WANT to be saved anyway. People like their sin. And aside from God changing them, they would never want him.
4. Is it "unfair" of God to chose some to be saved and others not? In a way, it is. If he was to be totally "fair" as we see it, nobody would get saved as nobody deserves it. But he decides to spoil some of us, for reasons that we don't know. We didn't do anything to deserve it.

Not too hard a concept... But some people I guess like posting troll threads just to stir stuff up and see how long it flames on before it gets locked

Calvinist. :frown:

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono
You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

Have read the bible? The gospels don't even agree with each other, never mind the whole bible.

I get the feeling he's read a lot of Christian apologetics.

Which isn't at all what it sounds like.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: barfo
How do you justify the millions of people that don't have a chance for salvation, just because they weren't born in a place where they would be taught to worship your god?

Is it god's fault that all these people are condemning themselves? or is it the humanity for not embracing your religion without question? or maybe it's their own fault for not embracing the foreign true faith, despite what their parents and grandparents taught them?

1. All people have sinned. Therefore, all people deserve hell as a result.
2. Only those whom God chooses to save does he save. We don't deserve it. See #1.
3. All those millions of people who never got told about God are ones whom God did not chose. Even if they had heard about God they still wouldn't have converted. In of ourselves we don't WANT to be saved anyway. People like their sin. And aside from God changing them, they would never want him.
4. Is it "unfair" of God to chose some to be saved and others not? In a way, it is. If he was to be totally "fair" as we see it, nobody would get saved as nobody deserves it. But he decides to spoil some of us, for reasons that we don't know. We didn't do anything to deserve it.

Not too hard a concept... But some people I guess like posting troll threads just to stir stuff up and see how long it flames on before it gets locked

Calvinist. :frown:

Why yes, yes I am.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: jonks
did you bother scrolling down to the reference list? Horus was being worshipped for a thousand years when jesus was born. His worshippers recognized his birthday as Dec 25, his dad was Joseph, and he raised Lazarus from the dead. Selective list my ass. And if you take the bible at its word, then you have a lot of chutzpah claiming that something about Horus was made up.

THe bible was writen hundreds of years later from a combination of whole cloth fabrication, previous messianic legends, and word of mouth generations separated from any possibly actual events along the lines of "the romans crucified some guy who thought he was god or something"

Reference list is secondary. Those aren't the religious texts of the Egyptians, those are other website and books which I would have to obtain and check. Once of those websites, an About.com reference page, even says:

Encyclopedia Mythica article on Horus. Stephanie Cass says, "The name "Horus" is a general catchall for multiple deities.... In all the Horus deities the traits of kingship, sky and solar symbology, and victory reoccur. As the prototype of the earthly king, there were as many Horus gods as there were rulers of Egypt, if not more."

You could assemble a George Washington prototype from the stories of various leaders that came before him, but that doesn't mean the actual story of him was inspired by the others.

Your list is selective. Since you are using a secondary source, I will, too. THe following info is from Wikipedia.

"Horus was also said to be a war god and a hunter's god; since he was associated with the falcon. Thus he became a symbol of majesty and power as well as the model of the pharaohs.[6] The pharaohs were said to be Horus in human form."

Doesn't sound like Jesus.

"By the Nineteenth dynasty, the enmity between Set and Horus, in which Horus had ripped off one of Set's testicles, was represented as a separate tale. According to Papyrus Chester-Beatty I, Set is depicted as trying to prove his dominance by seducing Horus and then having intercourse with him."

Doesn't sound like Jesus.

"Horus is recorded in Egyptian hieroglyphs as ?r.w and is reconstructed to have been pronounced *?aru, meaning "Falcon". As a description it has also typically been thought of as having the meaning "the distant one" or "one who is above, over"[2] By Coptic times, the name became Hor. It was adopted into Greek as ???? Horos. The original name also survives in later Egyptian names such as Har-Si-Ese literally "Horus, son of Isis"."

Doesn't sound like Jesus.

You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

The problem with this whole exercise is that No One is suggesting that Horus is a True God. They are just pointing out that Horus was attributed with doing everything Jesus did a Millenia before Jesus alleged existance.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono
You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

Have read the bible? The gospels don't even agree with each other, never mind the whole bible.

Yes, I have. Have you? They do agree with each other. The apparent discrepancies that people propose are reconcilable.

If you jump through enough logical (and illogical) hoops, you can reconcile almost any discrepancy, even ones about Horus.

If you do an intelligent investigation involving mutiple testimonies, you know that reconciliation to soem degree is essential. Looking at the same event from multiple perspectives necessitates the resolution of apparent discrepancies. It's when there are no apparent discrepancies at all, when the testimones match too evenly, you begin to question whether the accounts were doctored.

The gospels are dissimilar enough to indicate that they were indeed the accounts of multiple people who did not collaborate to concoct the gospels, and they are similar and consistent enough to speak to the validity of what is recorded therein.

 

[cronos]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: cronos
no. there is one true God.

ask the Cylons if you don't believe me :|

It doesn't like to be called that.

silly me. silly, silly me.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: cronos

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: cronos
no. there is one true God.

ask the Cylons if you don't believe me :|

It doesn't like to be called that.

silly me. silly, silly me.

Oh snap, it's my evil twin brother, cronos.
We meet again! :shocked:

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: jonks
Explain how the stories of Jesus are nearly identical to the Egyptian god Horus, who was worshiped a thousand years before Jesus was "born"

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm

Gee, lot o coinkidinks there, eh?

Selective list, and views/interpretations of Horus changed over a long period of time. Plus, I'm guessing a lot of that is just made up, and there is no official account of who Horus was. If you think otherwise, then please give me names of the source(s) for Horus mythology, not just some selective table.

Also, it's likely that the Hebrew people within Egypt influenced their beliefs in some way. Hebrew beliefs remained consistent after Pentateuch was written (Moses era), while Egyptian beliefs continuied to shift and change. The polytheism of the Egyptians was much more open to changing intrepretation and redefinition of who their gods were.

You don't think the views/interpretations of Jesus have changed over time? One major change is illustrated in the bible itself and explained away by calling the New Testament the "new covenant". The difference between the new and old testament gods is quite striking.

An interesting thing about religion is that it can be "reinterpreted" to completely change its meaning without actually changing the original text. Few people actually try and justify this process, or even think about it overmuch. Still, as humanity's morality pulls farther and farther ahead of the morality of the time in which the bible was written, our creativity in fabricating a reconciliation that allows us to keep our religion while maintaining our superior moral status is strained to the breaking point. Many christians are already committing those portions of the holy writ that they deem unacceptable to the nether-realm of "allegory", which then allows them to make up a more acceptable reason for the story to be there. There is little rhyme or reason to the stories that are labeled fact or fantasy beyond the person's own estimation of what a loving god would do. I find this to hardly be a reliable way to come about "truth". Those who claim that the bible is true in it's entirety rely on selective memory and clever interpretation to call up quotes which support their attitude of the moment and refute contradictory quotes when they come up.

This all results in a God that is as malleable as the changing attitudes of the people who believe in him. It in no way indicates that there is any truth to what they are so desperately clinging to.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: Crono
You can't even compare the two, because there is a record of who Jesus said He was, there is a unified and consistent account with multiple witness accounts of who he was found in the Bible. Even if you reject the Bible as mythology, it's consistent, unlike texts concerning Horus. Which is why, again, I ask you what are the primary sources for the Horus mythology.

Have read the bible? The gospels don't even agree with each other, never mind the whole bible.

Yes, I have. Have you? They do agree with each other. The apparent discrepancies that people propose are reconcilable.

If you jump through enough logical (and illogical) hoops, you can reconcile almost any discrepancy, even ones about Horus.

If you do an intelligent investigation involving mutiple testimonies, you know that reconciliation to soem degree is essential. Looking at the same event from multiple perspectives necessitates the resolution of apparent discrepancies. It's when there are no apparent discrepancies at all, when the testimones match too evenly, you begin to question whether the accounts were doctored.

The gospels are dissimilar enough to indicate that they were indeed the accounts of multiple people who did not collaborate to concoct the gospels, and they are similar and consistent enough to speak to the validity of what is recorded therein.

Alternately, one could consider the possibility that they started from the same story, was taken to different regions where the story evolved (dirty word, I know) in different directions before being written down and combined in the same book.

 

[judasmachine]

They never reach the 'age' of accountability. Therefore they are either reincarnated, or enter heaven (or hell) based on whether they were an asshole or a nice guy.


/not religious
//parroting the best answer I ever received.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: barfo

Originally posted by: Crono
If God is a supreme being, then He has the right to do whatever He pleases, and what is right/wrong is dependent on Him, not on you. If you think you are better than God, than obviously you are the one in rebellion and are putting yourself as god. It doesn't matter if you think God is just or not, because He is the one who can see things more clearly (perfectly) than you, and you are a creation of His. Doing what is right in your own eyes only leads to destruction.

"
What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"
On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,
even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. "

Romans 9: http://www.biblegateway.com/pa...=romans%209&version=49

Also, read God's response to Job at end of the book, and reading all of Romans (not that long, all is online) will give you better background.

I'm not claiming to be better than god,and I agree he'd see things more clearly. The problem is, which religion is the true one? cause all of them preach different things.
I was raised a catholic, should I just abide by it and brace myself in case Allah turns out to be the real god and I realize I'm doomed when I die?

Im going to go with learn to think for yourself and draw your own conclusions, Alex!

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Originally posted by: elmer92413
You need to read Dante's Divine Comedy.
Circle I - Limbo
/thread

You need to assume everyone is remotely even Christian more.

 

[evident]

this shit is getting old. every fucking day theres another flamebait thread that gets 100 posts in an hour

 

[So]

Originally posted by: evident
this shit is getting old. every fucking day theres another flamebait thread that gets 100 posts in an hour

P&N really needs to become P&R.

 

[Crono]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: evident
this shit is getting old. every fucking day theres another flamebait thread that gets 100 posts in an hour

P&N really needs to become P&R.

Politics Religion and News?
PoRN? I think that might uncessarily excite and disappoint some AnandTech members.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: evident
this shit is getting old. every fucking day theres another flamebait thread that gets 100 posts in an hour

P&N really needs to become P&R.

:thumbsup:

 

[SphinxnihpS]

How many replies by Fritzo, JS80, and Crono in here? I didn't read past comment 3 or 4.