I'm a noob, and scared!

[CrimsonChaos]

Ok, my computer broke so am buying a new one (was going to buy one anyway). I went on Alienware and priced the system below for $3,573.00 exactly. Of course, I don't want to spend that kind of money on a computer. So I want to build one but have never done it before. Please help!

CASING: ($146.00) ? Thermaltake Shark ? Full Tower
PSU: ($229.00) PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510
CPU: ($485.00) AMD Athlon 64 4000+ SledgeHammer Socket 939
MOBO: ($175.00) ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX
RAM: ($218.00) CORSAIR XMS 1GB (2 x 512MB) DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Video: SLI - (2 X $349) eVGA Geforce 6800GT 256MB PCI-E
Hard Drive1: ($183.00) WD Raptor 73GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150
Hard Drive2: ($129.00) WD Caviar SE 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150
Sound: ($103) CREATIVE Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS GAMER Limited Edition
Media (assume links aren't necessary for these):
($49.99) NEC Black 16X DVD+/-RW CD-RW 2M Cache
($22.00) LITE-ON Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM
($10.50) SONY MPF920 Black 1.44MB 3.5"

Total: $2,447.50

---

Of course, this is still a little over my budget. The computer will be used for gaming and graphics/video editing. But I have a few questions:

1. Most importantly, is everything above compatible?
2. Does the hard-drive comes with Windows already on it?
3. The RAM is dual-channel -- what does this mean? Should I just buy two single sticks of normal 512MB RAM?
4. Does ATI have SLI technology? If so, can I use it with the setup above or do I need something else?
5. Do heat-sinks/fans come with the setup above or are those separate items I have to purchase?
6. Is there any special testing equipment or other accessories I have to buy to ensure the computer is functioning properly during/after assembly?

This all seems very overwhelming -- but spending an extra $1,000 just to have someone do it for me seems ridiculous. I already have one broken computer -- please re-assure me I can do this without having TWO broken computers in my house!

 

[thecrecarc]

aleinware is a total rip off



build ur own pc is MUCH cheaper and once u get the used to it its ez. plus, even if u are scared, by it from another place. alienware is a total ripoff

1. too lazy to check
2. no
3. it runs faster, u should get 2 512
4. no
5. u bought a retail so, yes
6. err... just run some porgrams... and see if everything is fine.

 

[Ze Mad Doktor]

Why don't you disassemble the broken one and then reassemble it. then you will have built a computer and may feel a bit better about building a new computer

 

[WraithETC]

1. Most importantly, is everything above compatible?
2. Does the hard-drive comes with Windows already on it?
3. The RAM is dual-channel -- what does this mean? Should I just buy two single sticks of normal 512MB RAM?
4. Does ATI have SLI technology? If so, can I use it with the setup above or do I need something else?
5. Do heat-sinks/fans come with the setup above or are those separate items I have to purchase?
6. Is there any special testing equipment or other accessories I have to buy to ensure the computer is functioning properly during/after assembly

1. Yes it is
2. No they don't you gotta buy it. I wouldn't reccomend SATA for first time building
3. Just get Corsair value ram it will work dual channel. Dual channel is more or less the ram working together. You usually would put it in slot 1 and 3.
4. Ati does not have sli cards yet.
5 They come with the processor as long as it is retail but, a zalman one would be better.
6. Probably are do I know em no.

 

[imported_brad]

you can do it, it just takes a little guts for doing it your first time...but the reward is well worth it.

Everything looks compatible.

 

[mechBgon]

Throw on WinXP Pro with Service Pack 2 Also, I do not see pizza listed? You might need help from this guide.

You might want to get the mobo/CPU/RAM combo from Monarchcomputer.com preassembled/tested. Also, that RAM is very expensive compared to some of Corsair's other dual-channel XMS kits like this one at $125. Heck, for $259 you could have 2GB of XMS.

The similar BenQ burner comes with Nero OEM software, that might be worth changing for.

 

[homercles337]

Drop the raptor and go with 2x BIG WDs and run in RAID5.
Drop SLI and go with an Ultra mobo (too buggy still).

 

[mwmorph]

1) DO NOT BUY ALIENWARE. RIP OFF
case, use an yuo feel like
psu. good
cpu, get a 3800+ or 3500+ venice(and overclock the hell out of it) so you can run 4 slots of ram without punishment for future upgradibility
mobo: the asus is a GREAT choice, but the DFI lanparty SLI ocs better
ram: with such a monster system, go 2x1gb sticks, cheap as you can find. the more expensive sticsk(read 2x more expensive like the ones you are buying) add 1-3% more performance max. not worth 100-150% price increase.
video: good
HDD: if you want the reaptor, go for it, but i recommend 2x drives(maybe 300gb?) in Raid0(data striping) probably almost as fast, a lot more storage.
unless you have a great speaker system, the 1-4fps increase from the audigy isnt worth it.

1. yes
2. no you need to buy windows. the HDDS are blank formatted
3. buy 2 sticks of 1gb ram for photo editing. any 2 sticks of the same model should work in dual channel fine. dual channel kits arent worth it, it juist means those 2 sticks were next to each other on the productino line and are most similar.
4.no ATI has AMR but it wont be out for a while(probably around R520 ship date)
5. as long as yuo buy the retail packages the HSF will come with them
6. not really

Originally posted by: homercles337
Drop the raptor and go with 2x BIG WDs and run in RAID5.
Drop SLI and go with an Ultra mobo (too buggy still).

raid5 needs 3 drives. raid 0 needs only 2.

 

[CrimsonChaos]

Wow, fast replies - thanks! A few follow-up questions...

- Why wouldn't you recommend SATA for first-time building?

- Ok, I assume Corsair XMS is just their "high-end" line of RAM? I thought I read that 2GB of memory doesn't do much of anything extra for gaming - is this different for video/photo-editing?

- Should I add additional fans just to be on the safe side? I didn't think AMD's were prone to overheating.

- I heard great things about the Raptor HD - why drop this?

- If I get the above SLI setup, can I use just 1 video-card for now, and add another one later?

- What type of testing does Monarchcomputer.com do on their mobo/cpu/ram setups - and is there anyway I can do these tests myself?

 

[theMan]

i would get the 3700 San Diego instead of that 4000 sledgehammer

 

[mechBgon]

Some games now make use of 2GB of RAM if you have it, EQ2 being one proven example. If you don't want 2GB, then at least don't pay a 2GB price for 1GB of RAM

SATA is getting to be a safer bet than it used to be, as the crummy implementations of it become rarer, but it retains some drawbacks like easily-broken connectors. full SATA editorial ranting here

The CPU overheating isn't what you need to worry about, it's the heat production from two 6800GTs that is going to be the biggie. If the case has two 120mm fans like Newegg says, then it should do ok.

 

[dcdude]

Originally posted by: theman
i would get the 3700 San Diego instead of that 4000 sledgehammer

if he's not sure of himself BUILDING a computer, theres no reason as to why he needs a San Diego core, becuase hes not going to be overclocking

is there?

 

[CrimsonChaos]

Thanks again guys.

Right, I won't be overclocking at all - do I still need San Diego core?

mechBgon, I read most of your SATA rant - very entertaining (and informative). If a connector breaks, can I just put a new one on, or do I have to buy an entirely new hard-drive and/or mobo?

And I also still need these questions answered:

- If I get the above SLI setup, can I use just 1 video-card for now, and add another one later?

- What type of testing does Monarchcomputer.com do on their mobo/cpu/ram setups - and is there anyway I can do these tests myself?

 

[mechBgon]

If a connector breaks on the mobo, you replace the mobo (well, or you put the drive on a different connector if there's a vacant one). If it breaks on a drive, you try to figure out how to get your term paper off of the drive before 10AM tomorrow, or whatever If you get one, be careful with it.

 

[plagiarist]

Search my old posts in archives- you'll find my journey of building a PC with help from ATers.

Here's my 2 cents:

SATA is not for a new person. Once you have it figured out, it's easy from then on, but honestly- for a first time build, go a little under what you think you can do. It'll build confidence and satisfaction at a much lower price- monetarily and on your soul being taxed by running into things that are a little confusing without any confidence. The main difficulty of SATA is making sure the cables are in the right SATA controllers on the mobo, and having the driver floppy ready (you'll either recieve one or have a utility on the motherboard driver cd) when you do the install.

You will have to format the drive and install windows. This will not be challenging. I reccomend partioning it into a pair of 20gb drives (one for OS, one for storage/another OS if you want to try something different OR maintain two seperate installations of XP just-in-case, and the rest in a third partition. This saves you headaches down the road when you need a partition and are stuck with what you have (although you could always buy partition magic in that situation.)

Good choice on the Case- I have a Thermaltake XaserIII Supertower, and I LOVE that badboy. Could use another pair of 120mms but it already has enough fans to cycle more air than an air conditioner and it's reasonably quiet. It's also large and heavy as hell .

Raptors are a ripoff unless you're building a system that totals to at least 4 grand before any peripherals at all in which case it makes sense to wring every last drop out of performance within reason. Otherwise stick with a good name brand 7,200 rpm drive with a reputation for reliability and silence. I'm obscenely happy with my Samsung.

As for ram, do a little reading on ram hype. There's a range where the specs keep looking better but the real results aren't there. "Performance" ram should be saved for those 5-6grand systems- you see less results off of that than you do a Raptor. Again, if you have money to burn for a .6% performance increase or something like that, feel free. This does not mean that you are saving money going with crap ram. Buy quality ram- corsair or crucial are good. Just don't go for the hyped unless you know what you're getting and are cool with it.

Dual channel = you mount two 512mb modules. You could, by just going with sensible ram, save enough for four 512mb modules.

I built my PC around... oh, it was JUST before the Asus mobos with SLI were coming out. Or the nforce. Or whatever. I decided a PC now was better than a PC with room for two gfx cards later, and I could always swap out the mobo and processor and gfx card for upgrading to a whole new system, and have everything else available.

I spent just over 2k and half that was on monitor and speakers (MMmmmm NEC and Klipsch) the rest went on the system itself which (120gb HD + 60gb hd I had laying around, AMD64 3000+, Radeon 9600 with 256mb ram, Audigy2 ZS platinum pro, a Lite-on, gig of ram, etc) while costing 40% as much as your system does, definitely performs more than 40% compared to your hypothetical one. I also don't game THAT much, so what I have is a powerful system that exceeds my needs, and still runs new games in high quality modes. I can always follow my plan and drop in those three magical components, maybe even more ram, and BAM- whole new PC that can be just as good or as better than the average performance system while costing me less.



A

 

[SrGuapo]

OK, what is your hopeful budget? Most of us coul;d probably recommend a sub $1500 PC that could be within a couple percent of the performance of that beast. Here are my recommendations:

CASING: something cheaper with a front and rear 120mm fan that looks decent.
PSU: WAY to expensive. Have you looked at the seasonics? They are almost silent and have great efficiencies (80%). The 500 and 600 W ones can be had for a little over $150.
CPU: I would recommend a new venice core- 3000+/3200+ if you want to do some OCing - otherwise a 3800+ is a great CPU
MOBO: I'd pick the DFI, but if you are not OCing, there is no reason to...
RAM: Get some cheaper RAM with decent timings. You will never notice the difference.
Video: If you want them both now, then whatever...
Hard Drive1: Rip-off...
Hard Drive2: Seagate, but that is personal preference. I have nothing against WDs, just avoid Maxtor. Seagates tend to be quieter and have better warranties.
Sound: Do you actually plan on doing sound work or just gaming? You may want to try out the onboard, it is pretty good on the DFI. If it isn't good enough, you could always plug one in later.


That is just me. Most of those suggestions would save you quite a bit of money and keep most of the performance. I would not worry about building it too much. My PC is my first build as well. I was pretty nervous, but it went well. Just read mech's guide about 100 times and hang out here all the time before you start and you should be good. Take it slowly, even a couple days if necessary.

 

[Todd33]

You can build a nice system and play games on it without SLI. what a waste of money. Just get a good single card, 99% of gamers can't be wrong.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Your best bet is to listen to MechBgon & read his pictorial instructions on how to build a computer from the ground up. While it is not up to date, it contains many important & curreently valid points that will help you along the way. For my part I will just say use the cardboard bench technique he describes in his tutorial & make sure the processor just falls into the socket....DO NOT FORCE IT FOR ANY REASON.

 

[fibes]

The components that you picked are a good choice, but may be a little overkill if you are trying to save money. My suggestion:

Case: keep what you have
PSU:Enermax
CPU: keep what you have
Mobo: keep what you have
Ram:Cosair Value (purchase 2 to make 2GHz total)
Video:6600GT x 2
Hard drive1: delete
Hard drive2: keep what you have
Sound: delete-use integrated sound
DVD+/-RW CD-RW and floppy: keep what you have

 

[Pr0d1gy]

*sigh* If he gets 2 6600gt's he won't need an ATX12v2.01 power supply as the 6600gt's do not have the power connectors that the 6800 series use. Also, it would be 2gb of RAM, not 2ghz.

 

[GML3G0]

don't get 2 x 6600 GT. Get one 6800 GT.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: GML3G0
don't get 2 x 6600 GT. Get one 6800 GT.

well, you have quite a large budget. get sli 6800gt and oc to ultra speeds.(easy.)

if you dont plan to oc, i take what i said back. go 3800+ venice for the neew memory controller

ditch the PC Power & Cooling supply for a cheaper(albeit get high quality one still) because you dont need that much for non oced.

get the asus board. dfi is worse for people that dont oc.(not as stable)

get budget ram(2x1gb sticks) so you can run photo editing and mmorpgs fine. they really need 2 gb to run at acceptable speeds when loaded down too much.

raptor: too much price compared to perfromance. again, i would recommend Raid0 2x the wd drives, but if speed isnt important to you, just JBOD them.

seriously ditch the audigy. it distorts music and costs too much to justify the 2-3fps increase in games. besides, the difference between that and onbpard wpuld require some good speakers to determine.

 

[CrimsonChaos]

Ok, I've taken all of your suggestions into consideration. Here's the new setup:

CASING: ($146.00) ? Thermaltake Shark ? Full Tower
PSU: ($229.00) PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510
CPU: ($219.00) AMD Athlon 64 3400+ NewCastle Socket 939
MOBO: ($175.00) ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX
RAM: (2 X $90.00) CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1 GB) DDR 400 (PC 3200)
Video: ($519.00) eVGA Geforce 6800 Ultra 256MB PCI-E
Hard Drive1: ($75.00) SAMSUNG 160GB 7200RPM - IDE Ultra ATA133
Hard Drive2: (Removed: 3rd Computer = File Server)
Sound: (Removed: Will use sound card from 3rd Computer)

Media (assume links aren't necessary for these):
($50.00) NEC Black 16X DVD+/-RW CD-RW 2M Cache
($22.00) LITE-ON Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM
($10.50) SONY MPF920 Black 1.44MB 3.5"

NEW Total Cost: $1,625

To summarize:
- Changed the CPU to an Athlon64 to 3400+ instead of 4000+
- Changed RAM to 2X1GB with higher-latency
- Changed Video Card from 2X6800GT to just 1X6800Ultra
- Changed primary hard-drive to Ultra ATA133 instead of SATA.
- Eliminated Raptor drive (will use file server for storage)
- Eliminated Sound card (will use old sound card)

Now THREE more questions:
1. If I get the SLI setup, can I use just 1 video-card for now, and add another one later?
2. Which is better, Newcastle core or Clawhammer core? (I'm NOT OC'ing)
3. Can I easily replace the A64 3400+ CPU with a faster model later, or will it require a lot of other changes or updates?

 

[SVT Cobra]

dude, i would check on ebay for a nice sutom built computer or get someone who knows to build one, until you learn more. becuase itll save you a helluva lot of trouble...(ive been building computers for people for over 3 yrs now on ebay ect, and i still learn new things everyday)

but hey if you wanna take the plunge, we'll be here for ya......

 

[The Boston Dangler]

I assume you need a powerful pc for video games, not work. All of your questions and concerns are addressed all over these forums, but I'll try to summarize.

Case
Full towers are huge. Do you need a box that big? Most mid towers are plenty. Antec is reasonably priced, and popular. Lian Li makes good ones, for more dough.

PS
Pick up an Enermax, Antec or Seasonic unit with 400-450W for about $100 at most. Anyone that spends $229 on a PS they don't need should be beaten with it.

CPU
A Venice core A64 3000 or 3200 should be pretty sweet, and tons better than a Sledgehammer. Winchester cores are dropping in price, but I think the Venice would be better for ya. San Diego is overpriced and overkill. Retail versions (not OEM) will come with a HSF, but most builders go for a decent aftermarket cooler.

Mobo
ASUS is the biggest manufacturer, maybe the best. But SLI is a total waste. Check out the A8N-E

RAM
Corsair is good stuff, take a look at a cheaper model. 2 x 512 sticks is what you'll want. If you have to ask, then you don't need 2 GB RAM. Dual channel memory is a function of the mem controller/mobo, not the memory itself. If you have 2 sticks, the pc will read and write to each stick separately, it's a little quicker. Memory sellers say "Dual Channel" on them, but it's BS.

Video Card
The ATI X800XL is a relatively good deal at about $300. No, ATI doesn't do SLI, but they'll have their own tech to waste money on soon enough.

Sound Card
Are you aware there's on-board sound with the mobo? It's tons better than it was years ago. If you want a sound card, get a vanilla Audigy 2. The "different" versions available are the same card with different extras in the box, for a bigger price. Unless you actually want the stuff they include....

Hard Drives
There's nothing wrong with SATA. It's a lot easier, a lot neater, and it's the same price as PATA. The speed benefits are yet to show. Yes, there have been a couple issues where mobo makers got extra cheap with the constuction of their products, and some other people will find a way to break anything you give them. These problems should be in the past, if it ever effected ASUS at all. I've never had a problem.
The Raptor is quick, but it has the worst price/GB ratio of any non-SCSI drive.
That's a good 250GB drive, why not get 2 for $260?
And forget RAID all together.

Why would you need 2 optical drives?
Get 1 good one, like a Plextor, or LG for less money.

Floppy drive?
Are you serious?

You might want to check out fans and controllers here, here and here.

My total price = a lot less than yours, same performance. Better, if you include space, power consumption and noise.