I'm saying it now.....

[Kerouactivist]

Part of a conversation from "the situation room" yesterday...
Bill Maher hits the nail on the head IMHO


"BLITZER: Let me pick your brain on presidential politics a little bit now. In our recent CNN/"USA Today" Gallup poll, among registered Democrats, Hillary Clinton came in with 39 percent. Then John Kerry, everybody else was way below at 15 percent, Al Gore, 13 percent. Do you think she got this Democratic nomination locked up?

MAHER: I certainly hope not because as I've said many times, I like Hillary Clinton a great deal. I think she is the worst of both worlds to the Democratic Party. Because she's another candidate who is going to make the same mistake they always make, which is to fish in the NASCAR pond. Trying to fish in that pond where the Republicans own it. OK. That's John Kerry and the goose hunting outfit.

Hillary Clinton coming out against flag burning. What a positive image for anyone who is progressive in this country that Hillary Clinton our one progressive hope is now with the idiots. Great. And that's what she is going to do. She's going to tack to the center constantly. She came out against violent video games, against flag burning, she moved over on abortion. So she's going to wind up alienating the left wing, her true base, and she's never going to get the NASCAR-loving, gun toting, faith-based people who the Democrats are trying to constantly go after. Go after the 79 million people who did not bother to vote in 2004. Some of them must be available for voting."



I've been saying this forever.....The Dems need is too make themselves distinctly something different from republicans and freaking sell the message..... The day of pandering to the white southern dixiecrat is over......Your (supposed) base wants you to stop beating the dead horse. You need go after that 79 million.....These people feel alienated from the system.

Against flag burning, what kinda fascist shiet is that....
Hilary is more of the same, which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore and the dems wanna blame people like me for them losing the presidency.....I blame them for running "middle of the road" candidates with no freaking vision....

I can tell you now I won't be checking her name on any ballot....
Hopefully, they will decide to fight for my vote or they are not getting it....

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

 

[Genx87]

The problem right now is the only way they can do it is to truely go hard core left. A platform that isnt popular in an aging society that wants to hold onto what wealth they have accumulated.

They managed to pull the countries spectrum so far to the left the Republicans can be considered a centrist party that covers anywhere from the right to the middle left. In a way they managed to bring this on themselves through their policies and actions of the last 50 years.

Maybe what will happen is the republican party splinters in the next 20 years where it stays centrist, democrats go hard core left, and a new party based on old school conservatism is formed by disgruntled conservatives in this country.

Right now the republican party has a wide base that can cover a lot of ground on the political spectrum. Eventually they will alienate somebody and my guess is the hard core conservatives in this country.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Genx87
The problem right now is the only way they can do it is to truely go hard core left. A platform that isnt popular in an aging society that wants to hold onto what wealth they have accumulated.

They managed to pull the countries spectrum so far to the left the Republicans can be considered a centrist party that covers anywhere from the right to the middle left. In a way they managed to bring this on themselves through their policies and actions of the last 50 years.

Maybe what will happen is the republican party splinters in the next 20 years where it stays centrist, democrats go hard core left, and a new party based on old school conservatism is formed by disgruntled conservatives in this country.

Right now the republican party has a wide base that can cover a lot of ground on the political spectrum. Eventually they will alienate somebody and my guess is the hard core conservatives in this country.

Wrong.
This is the Republcian/Rove myth. The Republican party is a party of contradiction with the religious right supporting big business in an unholy alliance to gain support to end abortion. Yet, in doing so they are supporting anti-worker, anti-health, anti-peace agendas that are anathema to people of faith.
The Republican party is the party of big business and against the working man, yet thru propaganda and unsustainable tax cuts (mainly for the rich) they have temorarily fooled a lot of working people.
The list goes on.
By actualy being in power the Republican contradictions are apparent. Everything for big oil, nothing for the working man.
And they have proven completely inept at actually running the country.
The shakeout among the electorate is underway. And the primary determinate of what party you belong to will start leaning towards economic class, especially as Americas economy has a smaller share of the world pie. And then the Republicans will lose the masses of the formally decieved middle class.
I forsee Democrat majorities as far as the eye can see, starting within 5 years.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

 

[conjur]

It's a false dichotomy.

Hillary will not be running in '08.


The Democratic Party, under Dean (and along with the DCCC and the DSCC), are sick and tired of the corporatist DLC.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: conjur
Hillary will not be running in '08.

What?!?! Of course she's running. She may not win the nomination, but she's definitely running.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

Its the douchebag/turd sandwich concept. There will probably never be a perfect candidate, because no one is perfect. With the exception of W, because he actually is the second coming . Its still better to pick the better of the 2, whichever that may be in your mind.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

Do I think Hilary is the right person for the job?
Actually I think she would be awesome. She is tough, smart and extremly capable. And I think she has the balls to make difficult decisions and to propose unpopular but necessary actions to our country.
But I think she may have too much baggage to win the job.

(as Yoda)
"Stop the neo-cons. On this all depends."

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

Of course she isn't. She's never had a dui, coke habit, never disappeared from her military unit with nothing more than pay stubs and a dental record to prove she was there. She's never run a baseball team into the ground, or bankrupted an energy company. Not qualified at all if you ask me.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

He's got a point though. You guys fvcked us. Boom. Go ahead and help the Republicans again. The damage is done anyway.
I agree with Maher to a point. But I will vote for her before I vote for a Republican. No question. And if some 3rd party guy comes along to provide more votes for the Republicans, we know who you'll be voting for. At least you're honest.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: arsbanned

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: bthorny
which is why I voted for Nader instead of Gore

And see how well THAT worked out.

Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

He's got a point though. You guys fvcked us. Boom. Go ahead and help the Republicans again. The damage is done anyway.
I agree with Maher to a point. But I will vote for her before I vote for a Republican. No question. And if some 3rd party guy comes along to provide more votes for the Republicans, we know who you'll be voting for. At least you're honest.

Just like holding out for a ferarri, when all you can really expect is a '83 dodge omni.

 

[ayabe]

Hilary is going to run but she won't win, there's too many people on the right who hate her guts and the talking heads like Hannity and Rush bash her every single day, it doesn't matter who the Republicans march out to oppose her should she win the nomination, right leaning individuals will be mobilized to come out and vote against her.

Personally I think McCain is going to be the least of all evils, I'm thinking of changing my registration temporarily to Repub just so I can vote in the primary, he will be running against people like Rick Santorum and Sam Brownback who are both religious bigots and if nominated either of them will crush Hilary, and then Pat Robertson and his ilk will be running the show more than they already are.

That is the worst possible thing I can think of.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Hilary is going to run but she won't win, there's too many people on the right who hate her guts and the talking heads like Hannity and Rush bash her every single day, it doesn't matter who the Republicans march out to oppose her should she win the nomination, right leaning individuals will be mobilized to come out and vote against her.

Personally I think McCain is going to be the least of all evils, I'm thinking of changing my registration temporarily to Repub just so I can vote in the primary, he will be running against people like Rick Santorum and Sam Brownback who are both religious bigots and if nominated either of them will crush Hilary, and then Pat Robertson and his ilk will be running the show more than they already are.

That is the worst possible thing I can think of.

The question is, will the religious right come out in force for McCain? Will a third party religious right candidate run siphoning off his votes? Can McCain be saddled with the Bushie economic plan, every part of which he voted for? And what IS his plan for Iraq?

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

From my perspective Hillary could go either way. But I tend to lean toward Mahr's feelings although not for the same reasons.

The last poll I saw showed that 44% of voters would vote no for Hill regardless. That is a huge percentage of the electorate to have already made up their minds. And that is before she runs against someone. Every poll right now with her against a leading R candidate shows her losing big.

OTOH, polls this early out mean absolutely nothing. The Dems are bloc voters and you should never underestimate the effect she will have with women voters (even the ones that hate her). If she carries 65% of the female vote she wins. As unlikeable and unempathetic as she is (she's about as warm and cuddly as a badger on crack), Bill will be out there campaigning for her. That will help immensly to soften her pointy parts. Bill makes her more likeable.

Can she win? Maybe. If the Rs go far-right-fundie (Frist, Jeb, Allen, Santorum), definitely. If she's running against McCain, Guiliani, Romny, Patacki... I don't think so.

Personally, I think the best thing the Dems can do is find someone else. Bill Richards from NM is one that comes to mind. Immigration is a huge issue. This guy could carry TX, CA, NM, AZ in a cakewalk on that one issue alone. That's a ton of electoral votes. He's already talking about deploying the NG on his own border to slow down the flow. If he talks tough on the issue and lays out a clear plan he might even win some far RIGHT converts who are pissed off at the Rs total lack of action.

And he's just one of a half dozen candidates that I think would have a better chance than Hill. I've seen Evan Bayh's name thrown around too.

 

[Kerouactivist]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
From my perspective Hillary could go either way. But I tend to lean toward Mahr's feelings although not for the same reasons.

The last poll I saw showed that 44% of voters would vote no for Hill regardless. That is a huge percentage of the electorate to have already made up their minds. And that is before she runs against someone. Every poll right now with her against a leading R candidate shows her losing big.

OTOH, polls this early out mean absolutely nothing. The Dems are bloc voters and you should never underestimate the effect she will have with women voters (even the ones that hate her). If she carries 65% of the female vote she wins. As unlikeable and unempathetic as she is (she's about as warm and cuddly as a badger on crack), Bill will be out there campaigning for her. That will help immensly to soften her pointy parts. Bill makes her more likeable.

Can she win? Maybe. If the Rs go far-right-fundie (Frist, Jeb, Allen, Santorum), definitely. If she's running against McCain, Guiliani, Romny, Patacki... I don't think so.

Personally, I think the best thing the Dems can do is find someone else. Bill Richards from NM is one that comes to mind. Immigration is a huge issue. This guy could carry TX, CA, NM, AZ in a cakewalk on that one issue alone. That's a ton of electoral votes. He's already talking about deploying the NG on his own border to slow down the flow. If he talks tough on the issue and lays out a clear plan he might even win some far RIGHT converts who are pissed off at the Rs total lack of action.

And he's just one of a half dozen candidates that I think would have a better chance than Hill. I've seen Evan Bayh's name thrown around too.

I agree on Richardson in that I think he could win.....Don't really know enough about him though.... I really like his comments on energy policy though....basically saying we need an apollo like program to solve our energy issues.... I think his energy policy could could really win over alot of people and the guy knows what he is talking about when it comes to energy....he has the experience...

 

[Strk]

If someone like Mitt Romney runs, the Democrats would really need someone strong to run. He actually has both conservative credentials and fiscal responsibility (from the time he worked on the Olympics to his time as Governor, he has been balancing budgets). He wouldn't have a hard time picking up those few swing states that are needed to win. If Hilary does run, well, let's just say our president in 08 won't be the first female.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Strk
If someone like Mitt Romney runs, the Democrats would really need someone strong to run. He actually has both conservative credentials and fiscal responsibility (from the time he worked on the Olympics to his time as Governor, he has been balancing budgets). He wouldn't have a hard time picking up those few swing states that are needed to win. If Hilary does run, well, let's just say our president in 08 won't be the first female.

Ha! Mitt Romney? The guy who ran on a pro-abortion stance as governor of Massachusettes then when he wanted to run for President declared he had a change of heart and was now against abortion? His candidacy is dead in the water.
He doesn't even start with a power base in his home state which followed the flip-flopping Romeny debacle closely. He's the butt of jokes in Mass.

 

[Strk]

Why haven't I heard these jokes?

 

[azazyel]

I just want a fiscal conservative who wont get involved in social issues. I know it's a pipe dream but it's the only one I got.

 

[spunkz]

only way i see dems winning is with obama

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
From my perspective Hillary could go either way. But I tend to lean toward Mahr's feelings although not for the same reasons.

The last poll I saw showed that 44% of voters would vote no for Hill regardless. That is a huge percentage of the electorate to have already made up their minds. And that is before she runs against someone. Every poll right now with her against a leading R candidate shows her losing big.

OTOH, polls this early out mean absolutely nothing. The Dems are bloc voters and you should never underestimate the effect she will have with women voters (even the ones that hate her). If she carries 65% of the female vote she wins. As unlikeable and unempathetic as she is (she's about as warm and cuddly as a badger on crack), Bill will be out there campaigning for her. That will help immensly to soften her pointy parts. Bill makes her more likeable.

Can she win? Maybe. If the Rs go far-right-fundie (Frist, Jeb, Allen, Santorum), definitely. If she's running against McCain, Guiliani, Romny, Patacki... I don't think so.

Personally, I think the best thing the Dems can do is find someone else. Bill Richards from NM is one that comes to mind. Immigration is a huge issue. This guy could carry TX, CA, NM, AZ in a cakewalk on that one issue alone. That's a ton of electoral votes. He's already talking about deploying the NG on his own border to slow down the flow. If he talks tough on the issue and lays out a clear plan he might even win some far RIGHT converts who are pissed off at the Rs total lack of action.

And he's just one of a half dozen candidates that I think would have a better chance than Hill. I've seen Evan Bayh's name thrown around too.

I agree on Richardson in that I think he could win.....Don't really know enough about him though.... I really like his comments on energy policy though....basically saying we need an apollo like program to solve our energy issues.... I think his energy policy could could really win over alot of people and the guy knows what he is talking about when it comes to energy....he has the experience...

That's what I was thinking too. Here is a guy who is not going to run an "It's all Bush's fault" campaign. I can picture him taking a very pro-active stance on some huge issues that have not been well addressed over the last 6 (and in some cases 30+) years.

Pro-active and positive campaigns win elections. What's more, he might be one of the few people to have survived the Clinton administration fully intact. Where Hill's campaign will be fighting off 527 groups left and right... Richardson (as far as I know) is as scandal free as a politician can get which will allow him to stay on point.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: bthorny

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
From my perspective Hillary could go either way. But I tend to lean toward Mahr's feelings although not for the same reasons.

The last poll I saw showed that 44% of voters would vote no for Hill regardless. That is a huge percentage of the electorate to have already made up their minds. And that is before she runs against someone. Every poll right now with her against a leading R candidate shows her losing big.

OTOH, polls this early out mean absolutely nothing. The Dems are bloc voters and you should never underestimate the effect she will have with women voters (even the ones that hate her). If she carries 65% of the female vote she wins. As unlikeable and unempathetic as she is (she's about as warm and cuddly as a badger on crack), Bill will be out there campaigning for her. That will help immensly to soften her pointy parts. Bill makes her more likeable.

Can she win? Maybe. If the Rs go far-right-fundie (Frist, Jeb, Allen, Santorum), definitely. If she's running against McCain, Guiliani, Romny, Patacki... I don't think so.

Personally, I think the best thing the Dems can do is find someone else. Bill Richards from NM is one that comes to mind. Immigration is a huge issue. This guy could carry TX, CA, NM, AZ in a cakewalk on that one issue alone. That's a ton of electoral votes. He's already talking about deploying the NG on his own border to slow down the flow. If he talks tough on the issue and lays out a clear plan he might even win some far RIGHT converts who are pissed off at the Rs total lack of action.

And he's just one of a half dozen candidates that I think would have a better chance than Hill. I've seen Evan Bayh's name thrown around too.

I agree on Richardson in that I think he could win.....Don't really know enough about him though.... I really like his comments on energy policy though....basically saying we need an apollo like program to solve our energy issues.... I think his energy policy could could really win over alot of people and the guy knows what he is talking about when it comes to energy....he has the experience...

That's what I was thinking too. Here is a guy who is not going to run an "It's all Bush's fault" campaign. I can picture him taking a very pro-active stance on some huge issues that have not been well addressed over the last 6 (and in some cases 30+) years.

Pro-active and positive campaigns win elections. What's more, he might be one of the few people to have survived the Clinton administration fully intact. Where Hill's campaign will be fighting off 527 groups left and right... Richardson (as far as I know) is as scandal free as a politician can get which will allow him to stay on point.

Except Richardson has already said he won't leave before his term is over. And he has that whole "I got drafted by the A's" thing. It'll get used against him.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: spunkz
only way i see dems winning is with obama

They can win without Obama. I don't want to stereotype black voters here but the numbers don't lie. With or without Obama the Ds will scoop up 90% of the black vote.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: spunkz
only way i see dems winning is with obama

They can win without Obama. I don't want to stereotype black voters here but the numbers don't lie. With or without Obama the Ds will scoop up 90% of the black vote.

And it is not a racist thing to say that many, many Americans are not ready to vote for a black man as President.