I'm saying it now.....

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: azazyel
I just want a fiscal conservative who wont get involved in social issues. I know it's a pipe dream but it's the only one I got.

As long as the gov't is not prevented from virtually unrestrained borrowing, there's no constituency for fiscal conservativism. Rich people want tax cuts and poor people want gov't freebies. Politics is about being Santa Claus.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Except Richardson has already said he won't leave before his term is over. And he has that whole "I got drafted by the A's" thing. It'll get used against him.

Heh... forgot about that one.

But if that's all there is it won't be a problem. Seems pretty minor to me. And don't get me wrong... I'm not a Richardson fanboi or anything. I was just trying to illustrate how another candidate other than Hill would have a good chance to win. I think it would be interesting to see how many hard-right anti-immigration "base" republicans would switch over to his side if he laid out a solid plan for controlling the borders.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: spunkz
only way i see dems winning is with obama

They can win without Obama. I don't want to stereotype black voters here but the numbers don't lie. With or without Obama the Ds will scoop up 90% of the black vote.

And it is not a racist thing to say that many, many Americans are not ready to vote for a black man as President.

This is true, which is why I giggle everytime some Repub talks about how they are going to draft Condi Rice, gimme a break.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: spunkz
only way i see dems winning is with obama

They can win without Obama. I don't want to stereotype black voters here but the numbers don't lie. With or without Obama the Ds will scoop up 90% of the black vote.

And it is not a racist thing to say that many, many Americans are not ready to vote for a black man as President. EDIT: Or VP

I wasn't going to go there... but it was in the back of my mind. I just didn't want to be the first to say it.

 

[tommywishbone]

Hillary can not win. If the Dems try to go that route, the GOP can win with Jeb or Cheney or Rice or even Tom Delay.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'm not a Richardson fanboi or anything. I was just trying to illustrate how another candidate other than Hill would have a good chance to win.

Mark Warner is another possible Dem contender. He seems to be preparing for a serious bid.

I think it would be interesting to see how many hard-right anti-immigration "base" republicans would switch over to his side if he laid out a solid plan for controlling the borders.

The Dems could make some serious gains if they made this 'thier' issue, as the GOP has totally dropped the ball, but I don't see them doing it. Both sides are too afraid of alienating the crucial and growing Hispanic voter base, which is why you see nothing being done on the federal level.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Hillary can not win. If the Dems try to go that route, the GOP can win with Jeb or Cheney or Rice or even Tom Delay.

Tom Delay as President?
AAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!
I won't sleep tonite thinking of that possiblity!

 

[judasmachine]

I like my women hot
I like my beer cold
and I like my liberals liberal.

:thumbsup:

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I like my women hot
I like my beer cold
and I like my liberals liberal.

:thumbsup:

And on the outside looking in, apparently.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Hillary can not win. If the Dems try to go that route, the GOP can win with Jeb or Cheney or Rice or even Tom Delay.

That's pushing it a bit far. Cheney has the approval rating of ..... uh something really low.

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I like my women hot
I like my beer cold
and I like my liberals liberal.

:thumbsup:

And on the outside looking in, apparently.

them being conservative doens't seem to work.

 

[MAW1082]

There will never be a true leftist as a legitimate candidate for the US president.

The powerful institutions in the country will simply now allow it.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

if she gets the dem nomination i'm going to put $100 bucks on the repubs to win.

 

[HighCalibreHooch]

 

[Crackle19]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'm not a Richardson fanboi or anything. I was just trying to illustrate how another candidate other than Hill would have a good chance to win.

Mark Warner is another possible Dem contender. He seems to be preparing for a serious bid.

I think it would be interesting to see how many hard-right anti-immigration "base" republicans would switch over to his side if he laid out a solid plan for controlling the borders.

The Dems could make some serious gains if they made this 'thier' issue, as the GOP has totally dropped the ball, but I don't see them doing it. Both sides are too afraid of alienating the crucial and growing Hispanic voter base, which is why you see nothing being done on the federal level.

I think its possible to make a distinction between a general accepting of legal immigration and the overall view to deter and stop illegal aliens from entering the country, while at the same time being tough on crime and strengthening our borders (Dems being strong on National Security). I think this is an issue that would resonate very well with the American people.

Clinton is too polarizing of a candidate. The general population already knows they love her or they hate her. I don't believe she would do well in the conservative South. On the other hand, I'm beginning to like Mark Warner.

 

[HighCalibreHooch]

I feel bad for my American friends and your underwhelming political system. Any democracy in which half the electorate (79 million citizens) decides not to vote is clearly broken.

From here it looks like your party system is stagnant because there's no competition. You need more parties!!!

In Canada we have at any given moment 5 political parties. While our two major parties are a little fuzzy around the edges, their platforms are far more distinct than the choices you are currently presented.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: HighCalibreHooch
I feel bad for my American friends and your underwhelming political system. Any democracy in which half the electorate (79 million citizens) decides not to vote is clearly broken.

From here it looks like your party system is stagnant because there's no competition. You need more parties!!!

In Canada we have at any given moment 5 political parties. While our two major parties are a little fuzzy around the edges, their platforms are far more distinct than the choices you are currently presented.

I think I remember hearing that outside of the U.S. only three countries with a similiar Presidential style government has lasted 30 years.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

When will people learn...Hillary Clinton, like ALL politicians, will say whatever she thinks she needs to to get elected. The personal views of politicans are irrelevant; all that matters is party affiliation and the free ride of an elected office. So of course she's moving to the center...she's a shameless whore, just like the rest of them.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

Originally posted by: HighCalibreHooch
I feel bad for my American friends and your underwhelming political system. Any democracy in which half the electorate (79 million citizens) decides not to vote is clearly broken.

From here it looks like your party system is stagnant because there's no competition. You need more parties!!!

In Canada we have at any given moment 5 political parties. While our two major parties are a little fuzzy around the edges, their platforms are far more distinct than the choices you are currently presented.

speaking of which heres something worth a quick read. http://www.lp.org/media/article_284.shtml

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Crackle19
I think its possible to make a distinction between a general accepting of legal immigration and the overall view to deter and stop illegal aliens from entering the country, while at the same time being tough on crime and strengthening our borders (Dems being strong on National Security). I think this is an issue that would resonate very well with the American people.

Clinton is too polarizing of a candidate. The general population already knows they love her or they hate her. I don't believe she would do well in the conservative South. On the other hand, I'm beginning to like Mark Warner.

Warner is fast becoming the DLC-dandy.

Not surprising given his attendance at two Bilderberg meetings.

He'll be pushed hard for the Dems (from the corporate-whore, DLC side) in '08.

 

[Jaskalas]

I myself will split to whoever is going to throw out illegals. Living in CA, I do not like being surrounded by foreigners who take American jobs from those who need it. Kick them out, seal the border from illegals, and watch the wages of the 20 million unfilled jobs rise.

Right now both sides have my spite on this issue.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: techs
Do you think Maher is right?
Do you think hilary is the right person for the job?

Do I think Hilary is the right person for the job?
Actually I think she would be awesome. She is tough, smart and extremly capable. And I think she has the balls to make difficult decisions and to propose unpopular but necessary actions to our country.
But I think she may have too much baggage to win the job.[/quote]

But does Hillary advocate for the middle class's rational economic selfish interest? Isn't she part of the open borders (pro-immigration) and pro-foreign outsourcing (aka, welcomes TATA Consulting) crowd? I really don't understand why the Democrats are so gaga over her. Besides, if she were to run she would energize the opposition and probably lose the election.

Aside from getting a platform that would appeal to middle class America, the Dems need to find an acceptable candidate, probably a successful governor with a (up to now) low national profile.

As it was in 2004, I think the election is theirs to win if they play their cards right. It would help if they'd advocate for the middle class's economic selfish interest, such as opposing global labor wage arbitrage. They should come out and say that they want to eliminate foreign work visas (goodbye L-1 and H-1B), that they want to pull out of the WTO and put up tariffs (also raises revenue for the government), and that they want to decrease the amount of legal immigration, forcibly eliminate illegal immigration, seal the borders, deport all illegal aliens, and prosecute businesses that hire illegals to the full extent of the law.

Of course, they aren't going to do that because the altruists and liberals in their party would say that it's racist to try to keep out impoverished foreigners who just want to work (even if that means a loss of American jobs and lower wages). Well, if that's really their platform--screw the middle class--then it's hard to have any sympathy for them when they lose the elections.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: spunkz
only way i see dems winning is with obama

Do you really think Americans are ready to elect a black guy to be the President? I don't know much about Obama other than that he graduated from Harvard Law School (via an Affirmative Action admission?) and that he sounds articulate on the rare occassions when I hear him. He might make an excellent president, but I can't see Americans actually voting for him. I think too many people would say, "He's going to take our tax money and hand it out to crack mommas!" and "Do we want to be another African country; look at their governments!"

Choosing Obama to be the candidate wouldn't make any political sense unless they purposely wanted to lose the election for some reason (anticipation of a horrific economy--better to let the Republicans have the office during that time, etc.). It's not as though the Democrats don't already own the Black vote.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

The Dems could make some serious gains if they made this 'thier' issue, as the GOP has totally dropped the ball, but I don't see them doing it. Both sides are too afraid of alienating the crucial and growing Hispanic voter base, which is why you see nothing being done on the federal level.

One of the big problems would be that it's on the Democrat/Liberal side of the aisle that you find the multiculturalists and altruists screaming that it would be pure racism to want to reduce immigration, especially illegal Hispanic immigration.

However, I agree that it would be a good move politically if they could actually bring themselves to take that stance as part of a wider platform to back the well being of the nation's middle class. Also, I'm not convinced that it would alienate the Hispanic vote that much. My understanding is that many legal immigrants oppose illegal immigration and wouldn't mind a decrease in immigration anyway for selfish economic reasons.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: techs
The question is, will the religious right come out in force for McCain? Will a third party religious right candidate run siphoning off his votes? Can McCain be saddled with the Bushie economic plan, every part of which he voted for? And what IS his plan for Iraq?

I don't know his plan for Iraq. However, that's ok because the election isn't for another 2.5 years. I still don't know Kerry's plan for Iraq, and his election is over. This is why the Dems are losing elections.

Originally posted by: Mursilis
As long as the gov't is not prevented from virtually unrestrained borrowing, there's no constituency for fiscal conservativism. Rich people want tax cuts and poor people want gov't freebies. Politics is about being Santa Claus.

Aye. Unfortunate, but definitely true.